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Thread: chloro/ele raid healing only spec?

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    Soulwalker
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    Default chloro/ele raid healing only spec?

    A friend told me about a thread he found yesterday that talked about raid healing using some chloro/ele spec. He said the spec didn't have synthesis and used the earth elemental for thud to build charge. So the spec must have looked something like this http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...0zoR.VthzoxoIz. Does anyone here use this spec? Does it work? I have never even thought about using ele in my chloro builds so i am intrigued.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trajk View Post
    A friend told me about a thread he found yesterday that talked about raid healing using some chloro/ele spec. He said the spec didn't have synthesis and used the earth elemental for thud to build charge. So the spec must have looked something like this http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...0zoR.VthzoxoIz. Does anyone here use this spec? Does it work? I have never even thought about using ele in my chloro builds so i am intrigued.
    The reason the build is popular is for the crit bonus to all healing spells, primarily flourish. Plus the fast charge generation from the earth ele pet while you have your entropic veil up, allowing you to have it up more often, and for a longer time.

    That said, it's limited on mana regen (which can be remedied by tossing 3 more points into ele), won't have as much DPS as chloro/lock (since the 30% crit bonus for damage is the same as the 20% spell damage that lock provides, but does nothing if you don't crit), but is superior for flourish/bloom/wild growth.

    From what I've read so far, it seems incredibly viable, and is simply the superior for big raid heals using flourish, which is what inflates the HPS meter so much. On a fight where you need that big flourish (Hylas, Thalguur, Uruluuk, etc.), it's probably more valuable than chloro/lock.

    (Edit: As far as specs go, even in chloro/lock, I prefer to still have nature's touch, since it ultimately increases my DPS/HPS by having it in my rotation, and I like speccing into nature's swiftness to get the faster nature's fury cast, which I use to increase my DPS during low-healing phases of fights. Even on ST fights, NT/NF hit harder than VS, and allow VS's DoT from nature's corrosion to play out longer, which is something else I'm surprised you didn't pick up, since the first tick after ruin/VS do quite a bit of healing. In fact, I'd say spec out of phytogenesis, since the 51-chloro should be able to cover that, given that they're already forced to spec into it.)
    Last edited by Uhgii; 07-20-2011 at 02:37 PM.

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    +1, I just tried it on last raid GSB/ROS, worked great, beating some healing comm. spamming cleric. I personally prefer 32 into elem for the mana regen and big cd. It depends greatly on what is your raid composition and healers, the fewer the healers, more hps you will do due to the huge amount flourish heals.

    With that type of build (either 32 or not 32 elem), your timing is critical, as a big part of your healing will be flourish/wild growth, both on a relatively long cd, and you want to use it not only often but also at the exact moment when you can top the raid. Like for plut or Prince, preload wild growth, because if you cast it AFTER raid get hit by the aoe, when it starts to heal, more than half of your raid will be already topped by the aoe clerics. Being lone chloro for spore and having another 2 clerics will make your hps sky rocket high.

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    I just don't see how you can justify using it over 30 lock?

    Way I basically see it is [10% dmg reduction, some minor pet damage, a bit better charge generation, and 30% bonus crit effects] vs [25% more charge from spells, opportunity, more HP, and 20% more damage].

    You should be stacking spell power over spell crit anyway, and I always favor more consistent/reliable healing than spiky, crit-reliant healing. The charge advantage really isn't that significant. The 10% dmg reduction is potentially good on some fights, but you're losing warlock HP to get it. And the 20% bonus warlock damage may out-damage the DPS a pet brings.

    Ele is an inferior build all around IMO. If you like using it, then go for it, but I don't think you can argue it's stronger.

    The build I use strictly for AoE healing: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...A0zok.xx0V0VVx Love the health you can get with it also (with raised in nature/vitality/searing vitality).

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    Plane Touched Valentr's Avatar
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    I am using this build for MT healing but haven't really tested it: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zvRq.xx.EdIuqAIkRR.V

    By going from my original build this might be a very effective raid healer with +%20 warlock dps and %9 more crit chance:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...x.gdIhVV00Mo.m
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veev View Post
    I just don't see how you can justify using it over 30 lock?

    Way I basically see it is [10% dmg reduction, some minor pet damage, a bit better charge generation, and 30% bonus crit effects] vs [25% more charge from spells, opportunity, more HP, and 20% more damage].

    You should be stacking spell power over spell crit anyway, and I always favor more consistent/reliable healing than spiky, crit-reliant healing. The charge advantage really isn't that significant. The 10% dmg reduction is potentially good on some fights, but you're losing warlock HP to get it. And the 20% bonus warlock damage may out-damage the DPS a pet brings.

    Ele is an inferior build all around IMO. If you like using it, then go for it, but I don't think you can argue it's stronger.

    The build I use strictly for AoE healing: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...A0zok.xx0V0VVx Love the health you can get with it also (with raised in nature/vitality/searing vitality).
    As a long-time advocate of 36/30 chloro/lock, I understand where the pull comes from for ele. Let's put it this way:

    --> 20% Damage vs. 30% critical damage AND healing bonus (flourish/bloom/wild growth/withering vines heal ticks, which are separate from the damage)

    --> 25% increased charge generation vs. Synergize (3 charge every hit from a pet, works WHILE entropic veil is up, meaning it stays up longer, and goes up almost as often anyway)

    --> 10% more health vs. a straight 10% incoming damage reduction (I'd prefer the latter. Plus you get a self-shield in the ele tree, which comes in handy.)

    --> 10% opportunity proc vs. Pet (since I have nothing else to compare it to, but keep in mind VS/Ruin/a specced NF are already basically on GCDs. Adding NT makes for a longer cast, but you could do without it, since ele's draw is more toward the big flourishes)

    --> Sacrifice Life: Mana vs. Channel Elements (I like locks more here, since channel elements is time/charge consuming, but you can work out a 31/29/6 with 6 in lock if you wanted it, plus your priority is to use living shell if you spec into it, or potions if you only wanna dip 29 into ele)

    --> Sacrifice Life: Damage vs. Intensify Elements (if you go 32 for the mana regen, lock wins here again, but a little extra pet DPS never hurt anybody.)

    --> 5% crit vs. 5% crit (silly, but worth noting they both have it.)

    So yeah, I think overall unless your crit chance is really high, chloro/lock will ultimately pull more DPS, even with the pet. But your crits will hit just as hard in ele, and again, the primary draw with ele is the 30% increase to your crits on flourish/bloom/wild growth/withering vine heal ticks, which lock completely ignores. Other than that, they're really comparable.

    So yeah, I wouldn't say throw in the towel on chloro/lock, since that 20% damage on non-crits is really beneficial, but if you want your flourishes to be as big as possible (and in a high raid-damage fight, flourish makes up like 30%+ of my total heals), ele is the way to go.
    Last edited by Uhgii; 07-21-2011 at 01:59 AM.

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    Thing is, when my flourish crits it's usually topping people off anyway. Very (very) rarely are people missing enough hp where the crit bonus on flourish would even make much of a diff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veev View Post
    Thing is, when my flourish crits it's usually topping people off anyway. Very (very) rarely are people missing enough hp where the crit bonus on flourish would even make much of a diff.
    Precisely why you shouldn't rule out the chloro/lock spec. Don't change what's already working for you. =)

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    I'm not ruling it out at all... I'm trying to argue you're giving Ele way more credit than it should even deserve. :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veev View Post
    I'm not ruling it out at all... I'm trying to argue you're giving Ele way more credit than it should even deserve. :P
    Haha I was meaning don't rule out your own chloro/lock spec. To keep it if it works for you. Don't just jump on the ele bandwagon. Although, ele deserves a lot more credit than I think you're giving it. =P

    The stronger unrivaled aspect of lock is more damage on non-crits. The stronger unrivaled aspect of ele is the 30% increase to your flourish/bloom/wild growth/withering vines. Non-crits screw your ele spec, whereas lock does NOTHING for any heals that don't come directly from your veils.

    From the parses I've seen so far, they're really close. Lock ultimately ends up doing more damage, ele ultimately ends up doing more heals (assuming you're using flourish consistently.) So give credit where credit is due. That said, I'm not even sure if I'll be entirely giving up my chloro/lock. My heals are solid as it is, and my flourish does enough to be comfortable, so I'd rather keep my own damage up and not worry about a pet. But it's all about personal preference.
    Last edited by Uhgii; 07-21-2011 at 02:44 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veev View Post
    I'm not ruling it out at all... I'm trying to argue you're giving Ele way more credit than it should even deserve. :P
    If by one fluorish your raid is already topped off, you have too many healers. Try this, use 2 clerics (2k hps parses showed only 1 cleric), 1 chloro with elem sub and 1 bard on big aoe fights. The point is to reduce the amount of overheal by doing higher crit heals (which should crit A LOT due to spec, at least a 15% increased crit chance = more than 50% easily), taking full advantage of wild growth as well due to lower number of healers. My bloom with no where near BIS (1.1k sp and 700ish spellcrit unbuffed) is about 3.6k hp with this build, which is not bad at all.

    Great elem can generate some fine charge, not as high but it definitely helps a lot.
    Last edited by noche; 07-21-2011 at 02:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noche View Post
    If by one fluorish your raid is already topped off, you have too many healers. Try this, use 2 clerics (2k hps parses showed only 1 cleric), 1 chloro with elem sub and 1 bard on big aoe fights. The point is to reduce the amount of overheal by doing higher crit heals (which should crit A LOT due to spec, at least a 15% increased crit chance = more than 50% easily), taking full advantage of wild growth as well due to lower number of healers. My bloom with no where near BIS (1.1k sp and 700ish spellcrit unbuffed) is about 3.6k hp with this build, which is not bad at all.

    Great elem can generate some fine charge, not as high but it definitely helps a lot.
    Exactly. And the charge it generates isn't as much, but it continues even if the skill you're using states "cannot gain charge while active," like entropic veil. So it's up longer, which is valuable.

    Basically, if you want bigger, consistent heals from your LGV, go 30 lock. If you want bigger heals from anything outside of your veil, go ele (though keep in mind the 30% crit bonus applies to LGV, too... just only on the crits.)

    Is chloro/ele viable? Certainly. Better than lock? Debatable, and largely dependent on what you're looking to do in your role, and what skills you want to maximize the effectiveness of.
    Last edited by Uhgii; 07-21-2011 at 02:49 AM.

  13. #13
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    someone explain to me where this 30% bonus to flourish comes from...i see tempest but it clearly says "critical hit DAMAGE bonus"...unless the tooltip is wrong or flourish does damage...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atsaka View Post
    someone explain to me where this 30% bonus to flourish comes from...i see tempest but it clearly says "critical hit DAMAGE bonus"...unless the tooltip is wrong or flourish does damage...
    Many have linked the proof that tempest's bonus works for flourish. I'm not sure if it's working as intended, as the tooltip certainly is misleading, but for now, it's a huge bonus.

    Scour the forums a bit, I'm sure you'll find a parse with a strangely high flourish/bloom heal.
    Last edited by Uhgii; 07-21-2011 at 03:14 AM.

  15. #15
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    As for the chlorolock vs choroele discussion, its not one beats the other.

    If the clerics heal spam can keep the raid up, but have trouble every 30sec or 1minute during aoe phases.. then its nice ur chlorolock has stronger heal stream, but in this case you just want a strong aoe flourish every 30sec.
    If your raid suffers moderate to aoedmg throughout the fight, but no hardhitting aoe. Then i suggest chlorolock for the healing stream.

    Every chlorobuild is situational, stop saying one is the best.
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