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Thread: Does anybody use the defence side of archmage tree?

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Does anybody use the defence side of archmage tree?

    Just curious if anybody even uses the defensive side of archmage now? I used to use it for some builds when steelweave was worth it and have tried it out a bit in the past but it just seems terrible to me when compared with what you ar giving up from other specs or offensive side of tree . . .

  2. #2
    Rift Master
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    That was also my experience when I tested it many times. It was what I played with dom before dom got its buff. Talk about wet noodle hitting, I was excited to see a 400 crit on neural prod back then.

    Oh sure I liked that you could use the runeshield outside in pve and I like removing buffs off others but overall you give up so much out of another tree to put points into that tree you might be best off if you are a dedicated 51pt in something that is your strength. The detaunt rarely works anyway - big deal if you can decrease someones dmg if they are hitting you so hard even half will kill you plus that stipulation that you can't hit them hrmmm sounds like something for a healer only and def not someone wearing a mage armor that might proc "a hit" would break when they could have just made an attack in that time.

    In the old days when you could kite better it had more payoff, detaunt the ranged, kite and dot the main attacker while moving away from the ranged. CC the main when you get them far enough away. Go beat on the ranged and return to the main.

    A dmg reduction seems so good on paper sometimes and doesn't play out if you die quick. That's why so many mages like their pvp builds to have some form of burst so they don't always have to be shucking and jiving. If you go up archmage best to go up the left side really. I can't count how many times I rezzed with that purple skill saying that my heal that was interrupted can be instant cast now - yippee, I'm dead, didn't help me when I need it, will be worn off by the time I make it back to a battle.
    Last edited by Fernt; 07-18-2011 at 07:35 PM.

  3. #3
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    only sometimes use -15% crit chace, everything else is useless, because if u use that, u just cant kill anybody and die longer
    especially -5% physical damage for 5 points? it looks laughable. have -32% valor damage reduction on me, and even with that r4+ wars crit me 1200-1500, so it means..75 points of damage reduction. it so help me to go faster to GY . pretty good for 5 soul points

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    No, because it really really sucks.

    IMO the whole archmage tree needs a rework to add a some defence talents that actually allow us to mitigate and evade incoming damage.

    An obvious needed addition is another "blink" like Flicker in the pyro tree, except make it use Charge.

    Another would be to make Hastened Withdrawal an active ability that again, burns Charge.

    Also, -5% physical damage for 5 points? that sucks.

    The talent that returns mana when stunned... who the hell ever thought that was a good idea? Just change it to make 50% of damage while stunned or silenced be dealt to our mana pool.
    Last edited by Ashenne; 07-18-2011 at 08:02 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hajax View Post
    Just curious if anybody even uses the defensive side of archmage now? I used to use it for some builds when steelweave was worth it and have tried it out a bit in the past but it just seems terrible to me when compared with what you ar giving up from other specs or offensive side of tree . . .
    Hell yeah it kicks as s I like the ground power to go against rougs its good if u hat rougs that kills u that wayi see them frist and get head start

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Corian's Avatar
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    Mages kinda take their PvP tree for granted. The left side of the mage PvP tree is a collection of the best skills available in any PvP tree, for reasonable points investment. And the right side is above average compared to the other PvP souls, even if it sucks compared to the left side of archmage.

    That said, there are arguments for it. In particular, Concentration and Ward of Detection are both very useful skills and one of the most satisfying things to see is a rogue busted and slowly backing away when he realizes his stealth just poofed.

    The problem is, can you pass up on things like 15% spell damage, instacasts for interrupted spells, run speed boosts upon taking physical damage or 30% crit damage bonus?

    Generally speaking the answer is no.

    I do keep a spec with defensive points in archmage to bust lost hope spammers though. They get cocky and stand in obvious spots.
    This is why we can't have nice things.

  7. #7
    Sword of Telara Krazybojangles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corian View Post
    Mages kinda take their PvP tree for granted. The left side of the mage PvP tree is a collection of the best skills available in any PvP tree, for reasonable points investment. And the right side is above average compared to the other PvP souls, even if it sucks compared to the left side of archmage.

    That said, there are arguments for it. In particular, Concentration and Ward of Detection are both very useful skills and one of the most satisfying things to see is a rogue busted and slowly backing away when he realizes his stealth just poofed.

    The problem is, can you pass up on things like 15% spell damage, instacasts for interrupted spells, run speed boosts upon taking physical damage or 30% crit damage bonus?

    Generally speaking the answer is no.

    I do keep a spec with defensive points in archmage to bust lost hope spammers though. They get cocky and stand in obvious spots.
    Meh. We have a few good lower tier 15% dam and Overload are good. However, Warriors have a few of the most amazing abilities in their trees: Subdue(Most OP/Broken talent in the game), Phalanx, Guard, and with the sheer amount of Warriors in WFs now Hold The Line would be useful. Problem is all warriors want to smash face where as their PvP tree is all about supporting the team.
    "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions."
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  8. #8
    lgw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corian View Post
    Mages kinda take their PvP tree for granted. The left side of the mage PvP tree is a collection of the best skills available in any PvP tree, for reasonable points investment. And the right side is above average compared to the other PvP souls, even if it sucks compared to the left side of archmage.

    That said, there are arguments for it. In particular, Concentration and Ward of Detection are both very useful skills and one of the most satisfying things to see is a rogue busted and slowly backing away when he realizes his stealth just poofed.

    The problem is, can you pass up on things like 15% spell damage, instacasts for interrupted spells, run speed boosts upon taking physical damage or 30% crit damage bonus?

    Generally speaking the answer is no.

    I do keep a spec with defensive points in archmage to bust lost hope spammers though. They get cocky and stand in obvious spots.
    This !

    Although the crit reduction is very, very good.
    1) Less overall incoming damage.
    2) Much less spikes.
    3) Especially Rogues often see their crit-procs fail.
    Sadly it doesn't really help against the FotM Para / Champ due Dual Strike. But it's still a very worthy investment.

    Steelweave is still ok-ish, as the more Mitigation (Valor) you already have, the better any added becomes, and both Stealth Ward and shorter Break Free CD are very good - and you can still get full Planar Attunement.

    Sadly both Rune Shield and Phase Shift are really meh skills, even if you go 20 AM for talents anyway...
    Last edited by lgw; 07-19-2011 at 02:59 AM.
    ... aka schoklat. PVP nerd - gaming vet.
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  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hajax View Post
    Just curious if anybody even uses the defensive side of archmage now? I used to use it for some builds when steelweave was worth it and have tried it out a bit in the past but it just seems terrible to me when compared with what you ar giving up from other specs or offensive side of tree . . .
    Considering our cloth armor and glass cannon status it just seems better to stack our strength which is damage.

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