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Thread: Gathered Dummy Parses for 1.3 Specs

  1. #1
    lgw
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    Default Gathered Dummy Parses for 1.3 Specs

    Dummy parses of different specs...

    38 Necro / 28 Dom / 0 Archo
    DPS: ~1100
    Scaling: 5/5
    Special: utility

    38 WL / 28 Dom / 0 Archo
    DPS: ~1050
    Scaling: 4/5
    Special: utility

    38 Pyro / 28 Dom / 0 Archo
    DPS: ~1050
    Scaling: 3/5
    Special: stationary, utility

    32 SC / 28 Dom / 6 Ele
    DPS: ~975
    Scaling: 3/5
    Special: AOE, Utility

    33 SC / 33 Ele / 0 Archo
    DPS: ~1050
    Scaling: 4/5
    Special: AOE

    33 SC / 31 WL / 2 Ele
    DPS: ~950
    Scaling: 3/5
    Special: AOE

    33 SC / 33 Nec / 0 Archo
    DPS: ~1050
    Scaling: 4/5
    Special: AOE

    38 WL / 28 Necro / 0 Archo
    DPS: ~1075
    Scaling: 3/5
    Special: self heal

    33 WL / 33 Necro / 0 Archo
    DPS: ~1100
    Scaling: 3/5
    Special: self heal

    51 Pyro / 11 Archo / 4 Ele
    DPS: ~1025
    Scaling: 2/5
    Special: stationary

    35 Pyro / 31 Ele / 0 Archo
    DPS: ~1050
    Scaling: 3/5
    Special: stationary

    Key:
    * ~1200 SP, ~750 Crit, Codex trinket
    * no buffs except Archon and WL-Armor
    * Scaling (in raids):
    -- 1p Pet + 1p passive Ele
    -- 2p Pet Necro
    -- 1p medium damage bonus
    -- 2p high damage bonus
    -- 1p Shades Dom

    NB: Not claiming any perfect rotation here.

    Interestingly enough, numbers are not that far apart from each other, although that's certainly gonna change in an actual raid environment due raid buffs, ease of use and especially secondary qualities. Didn't get to test them, as we still can only do one ROS run / week, and I usually do that as Chloro anyway...
    Last edited by lgw; 07-07-2011 at 08:53 PM.

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    Plane Touched Azreell's Avatar
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    I'm just curious why you Rate Pyro so low in terms of scaling when it is one of our Higher scaling trees atm?

    More specifically the 35/31 builds.
    Last edited by Azreell; 07-07-2011 at 09:15 PM.
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    lgw
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    I got to 67% (= 35 * 1.2% BB + 15% Imp GOP + 10% Imp FB), which I estimated to be about medium scaling, so 1p. (Both SC as well as even the basic Plague Bolt have higher coefficients.) Then I added 2p for Ele (one for pet, one for crit scaling). Hence Pyro / Ele got a 3/5.
    I might not be perfect there, it's just based on my experiences with raiding, the different specs and looking at the raw math.

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    lgw
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    Some observation regarding specific souls...

    Necro:
    Still the strongest passiv soul in the game. The pet hits extremely hard, and although it requires a small maintanance (Necrosis & Graverot every 20s), it's still very worth the investment. As such even competative as main soul.
    Also brings two nice CDs. EtC is a nice extra burst and decent charge dump, and LF is the best flat damage boost there is, and plays very nice in combination with other CDs.
    At last some decent utility (purge, heal debuff, emergency heals, selfheal).

    SC:
    To be competative single target, it absolutely requires the Ele's LS to be used on CD, and most usually with 3/3 Charged (which means a minimum of 8p and not just 2p invested). On the plus side it has extremly powerful scaling, even on its own.
    Still the top tier AOE soul bar none, although there are some solid runner ups.

    WL:
    Best passive spell damage booster in the game (work out the math of 20% base vs 30% just on crit, etc etc). Sadly for passive it gets beaten by Necro still. Hence only to use paired when also employing its own DOTs, but then an actual powerhouse.
    38p for Defile as Charge dump very worth it again.

    Ele:
    Nothing overly fance, but a totally fire-and-forget pet (however weak it is), the charge generator, the well scaling crit booster and some useful spells make it an odd but very useful off-soul.
    Still leaves to be desired as main, as it is too weak a pet class, and the spells themselves lack scaling.

    Dom:
    "Gimmick" spec with rather little passiv boosts, but SP used correctly is devastating.
    The CC options themselves might well see more use in HK raiding.

    Pyro:
    Poor, redheaded step child of PVE DPS. More competative here, but it lacks scaling for a straight nuke spec, options to exploit passive boosts*, and is still hit hard by any fight requiring even a modicum of mobility.
    (* Didn't test Pyro / Necro and Pyro / Ele, as it was very late. Might be positively surprised, but personally don't expect any killerspec from earlier experiences.)

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    I've never met anybody who played Pyro/ele correctly.
    I actually have a list of the spell power coefficients for all spell for pyro/ele btw, the highest is cinderburst at 71%.

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    Shield of Telara DeadlySight's Avatar
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    The problem is, you aren't adept at playing all of the specs to the same degree

    You can't be, no one is. We have similar stats and I do 100+ more DPS on the dummy with SC/Ele and 50+ w/ Nec/Lock and Nec/Dom compared to you.

    I'm terrible at playing Pyro, why I don't try to post Pyro parses.
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    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    WL:
    Best passive spell damage booster in the game (work out the math of 20% base vs 30% just on crit, etc etc).
    Upfront it seems that way, 20% bonus damage to normal hits, 30% to crits (1.5 x 20). The reality is this is another situation of additive multipliers messing things up. As the debuff side cancels out we can ignore considering that when comparing the relative value of 20% bonus damage to 30% more crit damage. As the debuff side of the multipliers multiplies with the buff side, it will not change the ratio between the 2. Note I am not even comparing the other perks elementalist provides outside of charged and tempest. This is strictly for passive spell damage boost.

    Considering SC/ELE
    Modifier x crit modifier for finding out the crit damage modifier
    Cloudburst -> 34(stretch of cold)+45(cloudburst)+10(raid buffs) = 189% hit, 340% Crit
    Lightning Strike -> 5(lightning mastery) +10(raid buffs) + 15(charged strike) = 130% hit, 234% Crit
    Arctic Blast* -> 34(stretch of cold) + 10(raid buffs) = 144% hit, 259% Crit
    Raging Storm -> 5(lightning mastery + 10(raid buffs) = 115% hit, 207% Crit
    Thunderbolt same as above
    For SC/WL
    Cloudburst ->209% hit, 313.5% crit
    Lightning Strike -> 135% hit, 203% crit
    Arctic Blast* -> 164% hit, 246% crit
    Raging storm/thunderbolt -> 135% hit, 202.5% Crit

    Differences
    Cloudburst -> -20%, +26.5%
    Lighting Strike -> -5%, +25% (Lack of charged strike to blame here for the size of the difference)
    Arctic Blast*-> -20%, +15%
    Raging storm/TB -> -20%, +4.5%

    Straight up, with the crit rate that is to be expected in raid gear and buffs, it is safe to say that Cloudburst and Lightning strike are better off. Arctic blast always crits(well should), and as such is better off with tempest. The only real loss is Raging storm and thunderbolt, which would need a crit rate higher than 80% for tempest to be better than the warlock passives. Pre LF nerf, it was a case of the warlock passives where better for SC (but the pet and cd's pulled ele ahead anyway), but now that cloudburst is our filler the tables turned on it.

    For pyromancer with burning bright, ground of power, and raid buffs putting their hit damage % in the ballpark of 162% you will be trading roughly 20% non-multiplied spell damage on hits for the same increase on crit damage. So at a values above 50% crit tempest on its own is better than the +20% from warlock.

    *Arctic blast when cast is normally benefiting from building storm, which I have not included. One point to note on this is that from the calculations I have done from the damage it deals I have reason to believe the +100% crit damage modifier is actually a +100% damage modifier when it applies. Essentially as SC/Ele I found on the target dummy, so no raid buffs, that 234% x 1.8 = 421% was more accurate in calculating its damage than 134% x 2.8 = 375%. This was using the numbers that Deadly posted back in is BS bug thread.

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    I got to 67% (= 35 * 1.2% BB + 15% Imp GOP + 10% Imp FB), which I estimated to be about medium scaling, so 1p. (Both SC as well as even the basic Plague Bolt have higher coefficients.) Then I added 2p for Ele (one for pet, one for crit scaling). Hence Pyro / Ele got a 3/5.
    I might not be perfect there, it's just based on my experiences with raiding, the different specs and looking at the raw math.
    This is really only half of the equation. Pyro has much better spell power coefficients than any of the other raiding specs above.

    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    Pyro:
    Poor, redheaded step child of PVE DPS. More competative here, but it lacks scaling for a straight nuke spec, options to exploit passive boosts*, and is still hit hard by any fight requiring even a modicum of mobility.
    (* Didn't test Pyro / Necro and Pyro / Ele, as it was very late. Might be positively surprised, but personally don't expect any killerspec from earlier experiences.)
    As above. Pyro/ele is by far the best pyro spec. Fireball receives a 15% crit bonus, which certainly exploits passive boosts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aarpia View Post
    I've never met anybody who played Pyro/ele correctly.
    I actually have a list of the spell power coefficients for all spell for pyro/ele btw, the highest is cinderburst at 71%.
    If you have cinderburst at 71%, then it's wrong.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Great post! Despite all of the people who love to try to debate on the forums... sensible people realize that these types of data tables inherently have a decent swing of user error and opinion tied to them... and it doesnt need to be disected or argued, just taken as reference.

    I was looking for something like this. Thanks!
    Last edited by Cremate; 07-08-2011 at 07:09 AM.

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    Plane Walker Pendu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aarpia View Post
    I've never met anybody who played Pyro/ele correctly.
    I actually have a list of the spell power coefficients for all spell for pyro/ele btw, the highest is cinderburst at 71%.
    I'm confident enough to say that I play Pyro/Ele correctly and I don't know why it's always been such an underdog when it comes to PVE dps.. IMO it's easily a contender to top dps charts, I'm usually competing with people who have way better gear as I have

    Being somewhat stationary isn't usually a big enough problem to gimp your dps, as long as you play it right. Place your ground strategically, use instant casts on the move and your shield, which increases your survivability a little. Using Flicker usually gets me in place with my ground cast before other people get there. You have very high controlled burst and the aoe isn't too far away from SC/Ele if you do it right. I mostly like the whole feel of the spec, it's not very complex but does require some timing and thinking ahead, also some proc- and charge monitoring to make it interesting, but not suck you into tunnelvisioning so you won't see your surroundings anymore. I guess it's easy to play, hard to master or something, I dunno.

    Pyro/Ele scales really well, Fireball is a major powerhouse (<o/ major powerhouse!)
    Last edited by Pendu; 07-08-2011 at 07:17 AM.
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    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendu View Post
    I'm confident enough to say that I play Pyro/Ele correctly and I don't know why it's always been such an underdog when it comes to PVE dps.. IMO it's easily a contender to top dps charts, I'm usually competing with people who have way better gear as I have

    Being somewhat stationary isn't usually a big enough problem to gimp your dps, as long as you play it right. Place your ground strategically, use instant casts on the move and your shield, which increases your survivability a little. Using Flicker usually gets me in place with my ground cast before other people get there. You have very high controlled burst and the aoe isn't too far away from SC/Ele if you do it right. I mostly like the whole feel of the spec, it's not very complex but does require some timing and thinking ahead, also some proc- and charge monitoring to make it interesting, but not suck you into tunnelvisioning so you won't see your surroundings anymore. I guess it's easy to play, hard to master or something, I dunno.

    Pyro/Ele scales really well, Fireball is a major powerhouse (<o/ major powerhouse!)


    Agreed, I run Pyro/Ele and the sustained dps is very respectable, and the burst CD dps is absolutely beast. I don't know anything that can keep up single target with IE/Heatwave popped and 100 charge.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryik View Post
    I don't know anything that can keep up single target with IE/Heatwave popped and 100 charge.
    38necr/28dom)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GGwct View Post
    38necr/28dom)
    yeah at galenir and plutonus...pyro can run every boss with nearly the same dmg. necro/dom ist just 4 fun at 2-3 bosses

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    .pyro can run every boss with nearly the same dmg
    I want to look at parses from 1st and 2nd GP with "same dmg"

    38necr/28dom
    Normal Practice Dummy: (05:18) | | 1230 | [Ggwct-Void Bolt-1516] | Ggwct | | 1230 | Shamblin | | 0

    33war/33necr
    Normal Practice Dummy: (05:06) | | 1229 | [Ggwct-Void Bolt-1483] | Ggwct | | 1229 |

    1190sp 644sc unbuffed 222focus
    Last edited by GGwct; 07-08-2011 at 08:24 AM.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGwct View Post
    I want to look at parses from 1st and 2nd GP with "same dmg"
    i said nearly. can you say that to Nec/Dom?No! And I will give you the screens from the bosses. Next Thursday is GS again.

    38necr/28dom
    Normal Practice Dummy: (05:18) | | 1230 | [Ggwct-Void Bolt-1516] | Ggwct | | 1230 | Shamblin | | 0

    33war/33necr
    Normal Practice Dummy: (05:06) | | 1229 | [Ggwct-Void Bolt-1483] | Ggwct | | 1229 |

    1190sp 644sc unbuffed 222focus
    Dummy means nothing but I am sure you know that

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