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Thread: Why so much crying?

  1. #1
    Telaran Azn13unny's Avatar
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    Default Why so much crying?

    I'm really wondering after reading forums now why we have so many stupid mages crying about single target dps?

    Were the best form of AoE Healing and Damage, Best support class, while being a range class to make some boss fights easier then melee.

    Points I read from other posts,
    Moving sure mages suffer more from moving then melee but I can think of fights where we can sit still while melee have to run around a lot more.
    Sure it could be done but you know how much painful Prince would be in gsb if you had all melee dps?
    So what if a mage has to do work to do 300 less dps then easy spam warrior, if your raid members are smart their always going to have you, cause well lets face it if you can bust your balls doing that I'm sure your not going to be the one ****ing up boss fights.

    There are more but I'm sure ya can think of other good reasons why mages are still needed.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Saying that "mages are fine because you can still get raid spots if you aren't terrible and don't stand in fire's" is not the same as saying "mages are fine because they can pull competitive numbers in comparison with the other callings"

    Assuming that you get a raid spot because you are just a better player does not mean that mages are fine. It just means that your experience/skill/whatever you want to call it, outweighs the benefits to be gained from bringing on a calling with higher HPS/DPS output. This is the old "a dead 2k dps calling does 0 dps argument" This statement ceases to be true when a rogue/warrior/cleric is just as good of a raider as you are, at that point hard numbers are all that matter.

    That said, I don't think mages are 100% totally broken, we are competitive in AoE heals in comparison to clerics, we pull competitive AoE DPS in comparison to rogues, we just need some single target DPS tweaks to get our numbers on single target fights up to a comparable level as the other callings.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched Baluba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azn13unny View Post
    I'm really wondering after reading forums now why we have so many stupid mages crying about single target dps?

    Were the best form of AoE Healing and Damage, Best support class, while being a range class to make some boss fights easier then melee.

    Points I read from other posts,
    Moving sure mages suffer more from moving then melee but I can think of fights where we can sit still while melee have to run around a lot more.
    Sure it could be done but you know how much painful Prince would be in gsb if you had all melee dps?
    So what if a mage has to do work to do 300 less dps then easy spam warrior, if your raid members are smart their always going to have you, cause well lets face it if you can bust your balls doing that I'm sure your not going to be the one ****ing up boss fights.

    There are more but I'm sure ya can think of other good reasons why mages are still needed.
    The problem is how Trion can justify having rogues and wars kill us in 2-3 seconds, while there are no builds available to mages that can do anything of the sorts to them.

    The only build actually being able to fend for themselves atm is dominator. And even that is reliable on your opponent being ******ed enough to kill himself.

    A mages best option in most situation in pvp is basically just to run. But hey, we cant even do that.

  4. #4
    Sez
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    Quote Originally Posted by TranquilSoul View Post
    "mages are fine because they can pull competitive numbers in comparison with the other callings"
    Correct. They just need to tweak their spec and rotation.
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

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  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Correct. They just need to tweak their spec and rotation.
    Ok I have been on whiner mage smack down patrol since the 1.3 patch, but this is over the top. Spec tweaking is not going to make up for the 10% to 20% dps gap, specs have been tweaked and rotations tweaked to get to that ~15% less dps. Yes there is zoomancer, but lets face it, humorous as it might be it is not a reliable/consistent spec for boss fights.

    I have been telling the morons scream that the sky is falling that they are wrong, but you are wrong too. Despite tweaking Mage is still going to need some love to get to equal levels with other dps roles for single target damage. Not much love but a little. A 11%-13% bump would be about right. The question becomes can/will Trion do it without screwing it up and not bumping them at all or bumping them 25-30% which would be stupid OP.
    Last edited by Raduk; 07-02-2011 at 09:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baluba View Post
    The problem is how Trion can justify having rogues and wars kill us in 2-3 seconds, while there are no builds available to mages that can do anything of the sorts to them.

    The only build actually being able to fend for themselves atm is dominator. And even that is reliable on your opponent being ******ed enough to kill himself.

    A mages best option in most situation in pvp is basically just to run. But hey, we cant even do that.
    Trion doesn't need to justify it. PvP is not the primary for Rift. PvE is. If you want to have PvP be the center of your world find a PvP Primary PvE secondary game.
    Last edited by Raduk; 07-02-2011 at 09:53 AM.

  7. #7
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Because crying works.
    If it's been shown that Trion responds to that why wouldn't they do it?
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Correct. They just need to tweak their spec and rotation.
    Sez, I wonder how you mean that. Do you mean that as a whole the mage community needs to figure stuff out? Or that most of us are just baddies?

    I sincerely hope it's the latter because if it is, you could kindly point us in the right direction

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Baluba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raduk View Post
    Trion doesn't need to justify it. PvP is not the primary for Rift. PvE is. If you want to have PvP be the center of your world find a PvP Primary PvE secondary game.
    Of course balance needs to be based around PvP. And they show they aim to do that with the tweaking ie in pyro, doing pitiful dmg in pvp now and slightly more in pve. Not all players are carebears even if you are. If you want a pve primary game, go play hello kitty.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    sez = another stealthed rogue troll, go wait for your slip away cooldowns.
    Last edited by DontBluffMyJ; 07-02-2011 at 10:02 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Malingers View Post
    Because crying works.
    If it's been shown that Trion responds to that why wouldn't they do it?
    If that were the case Mages would be doing 5k single target dps right now. The amount of crying is like 4 to 5 times the pre 1.3 crying about mages and that was mostly just from WFs about one shotting.


    It is easy to say they did it because of the whining, but just because there was whining and they did it doesn't make that the reason. No more than me clapping my hands just before there was thunder in a storm meaning my hand clap made the thunder happen. Now a year down the road once there are 10 or so patches under the table and every time they have taken action nerfing/buffing what the whiners are on about, I would consider that enough evidence to support a theory. But so far.....nope.

    Now if Trion comes out and says all the whining and crying is why they did it, then you would have your proof. But right now you are just assuming that is why.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raduk View Post
    Trion doesn't need to justify it. PvP is not the primary for Rift. PvE is. If you want to have PvP be the center of your world find a PvP Primary PvE secondary game.
    what utter crap.

    if pvp didnt mean anything to the game/trion then mages wouldnt have been nerfed in the first place.

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Correct. They just need to tweak their spec and rotation.
    why do you spend so much time on the mage forums - are you really still that butt hurt?

  14. #14
    Sez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synjyn View Post
    why do you spend so much time on the mage forums - are you really still that butt hurt?
    So much flak. I love you guys.

    Hey everyone! I'll try to answer you all in one post.


    I actually have a mage alt, so I have some vested interest. I am a leader in my guild, so I also want mages to start doing more for the raid (other than simply complaining), and finally, I am an optimist, and I still feel there HAS to be some decent dps specs for mages.

    Am I delusional? Perhaps, but I'm not giving up on you guys, and neither should you.
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    So much flak. I love you guys.

    Hey everyone! I'll try to answer you all in one post.


    I actually have a mage alt, so I have some vested interest. I am a leader in my guild, so I also want mages to start doing more for the raid (other than simply complaining), and finally, I am an optimist, and I still feel there HAS to be some decent dps specs for mages.

    Am I delusional? Perhaps, but I'm not giving up on you guys, and neither should you.
    It is good that are willing to entertain that you might be delusional ;) I am an optimist as well. however I trust in the min/maxing crazy obsessiveness of the mage community to have found it by now if it was there. They have had enough time since 1.3 went live

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