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Thread: No freedom of choice

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
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    Default No freedom of choice

    Dear Community,


    for some time already I have been affected by this topic.


    Playing a Mage means, as far as my experiences are concerned, you are only approved to T3 as full Chloro or full Archont.

    I am well aware that these specific souls are very impartant for the raid. However, I prefer much more playing the classic version of a Magician, namely as a (pure) DD.
    But as Mage-DD you are not allowed to join T3-raids. The statement of my guild-members and other people is here as follow:

    „Only 2 Mages will be taken to the Raid; one full Chloro and one full Archont. There is no place for a Mage when DD, as the other classes can do much better and higher DPS. „

    Lots of other guilds have the same opinion.
    I can say this, because very often we are jumping from one guild-TS to another. And of course we are talking about different topics all the time. One main topic ist the replacement of the Mage with his low dps.

    And so my giuld-members try to persuade me playing one of these „specific“ souls; Archont or Chloro. Both of these souls, however, I do not like to play.

    Only when people are missing a Mage may help out as DD. And even then, only when playing the SC/Ele-combination. But also the SC/Ele-DMG is, by using that extremely long and complex rotation, compared to other classes just too low.

    To call a Spade a Spade:
    Mage is broken.
    We have two souls for support.
    We have no dmg-soul that could compete with dmg-souls of other classes.
    We have very long and difficult rotations (for example SC/Ele) getting screwed up with any movement.
    We have the worst survivability.

    Meanwhile, I have seen some players given up playing their Mage (for reasons mentioned above) to finally play a different class wich is accepted as DD and brings much better survival-skills and support as a Mage ever could do.

    Other players already quit playing Rift for exactly these reasons I have already outlined:

    „As for me, playing a Mage, the game is done right after T2, just because of the less DPS compared with other classes, there is someting going wrong in this game“.

    For these reasons I wish to have a better ballance between the different Mage-Souls, for example more and better Synergie-Skills that were already requested by many other players (even proposed during the Beta), so that really several and different meaningful soul-combinations are possible; but also a much better ballance between the Mage and the other clathes.


    Dear community, I would be interested in your opinion and experiences on this topic.

  2. #2
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    Dear good contributor, Trion did extensive testing during the weeks as did many players with these changes before they ever happened. If there was ever a time when Trion or the players were unhappy and showed im balance issues, then they wouldn't of made these changes. Thus good sir, we ca only assume that the mage class we have is working as intended. Thank you for your feedback.

    also..if your guilds are only allowing 2 mages, the problem is with your guild. Mages, while as a extreme disadvantage to other classes, are still mediocre and usable in t3s.

  3. #3
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    Who exactly told you this?~_~
    To be very brutally honest, most guilds still roll with atleast 1-2 dps mages, and a total of at least 4 mages, out of 20 raid slots a min of 4 being mages is great.
    We in fact roll with around 6 mages on a constant basis.
    Don't be fooled into thinking that every other run in the mill rogue pumps out 2k dps (And to those of you who are going to say look at the 1 button hoko spec, it rquires pretty crazy gear), and in most guilds that are still progressing through instances you should have NO trouble being top 1-4 on dps.
    Just go into GSB/RoS, and as long you aren't heavily out geared you won't have any issues with dps. The gap begins once most people are 80% raid geared and are equipping relics, and even then silly specs like the zoomancer close the gap.
    I've also seen a non relic, only 2 t3 pieces necro lock punch out 1600~ on pluto(cipher filtered of course). So I'm not really giving up on our dps just yet. Neither should you.
    Last edited by Oscelot; 06-29-2011 at 09:02 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydis View Post
    Dear good contributor, Trion did extensive testing during the weeks as did many players with these changes before they ever happened. If there was ever a time when Trion or the players were unhappy and showed im balance issues, then they wouldn't of made these changes. Thus good sir, we ca only assume that the mage class we have is working as intended. Thank you for your feedback.

    also..if your guilds are only allowing 2 mages, the problem is with your guild. Mages, while as a extreme disadvantage to other classes, are still mediocre and usable in t3s.
    It´s not only my guild thinking like this.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloigor View Post
    It´s not only my guild thinking like this.
    Your guild is in the minority here.
    There isn't a single harsh dps check in this whole game, and no plutonus is far from a harsh dps check, our first pluto kill was with a raid that had no more than 10 pieces of raid gear among the WHOLE raid. The only time where our dps starts taking a real backseat is when everyone is decked out, and then it honestly doesn't matter that much anymore.
    I'd like to see a guild go through LGS,Herald and Alsbeth with 0 mage dps.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloigor View Post
    It´s not only my guild thinking like this.
    Its not only your guild thats wrong. If you roll multiple SCs their debuffs stack ontop of each other increasing their damage.
    My SC/ELE dps out does everyone on Duke for example. I have a mediocre ST rotation and a great AoE for brownies and faires. You combine that with 2 other SCs and we burn duke real quick.
    Andoreniel - 50 Mage
    Specs
    Chloromancer/Warlock/Archon - Support/Heals
    SC/ELE/Archon - DPS

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscelot View Post
    Your guild is in the minority here.
    There isn't a single harsh dps check in this whole game, and no plutonus is far from a harsh dps check, our first pluto kill was with a raid that had no more than 10 pieces of raid gear among the WHOLE raid. The only time where our dps starts taking a real backseat is when everyone is decked out, and then it honestly doesn't matter that much anymore.
    I'd like to see a guild go through LGS,Herald and Alsbeth with 0 mage dps.
    well Johlen is a DPS check, but when I burn CDs for that I have seen my LB hit 5k on a crit and I only have 868 SP. So Its pretty impressive IMO. With that, Crits on Cloudburst of 1400, and Static distcharge ... mages can dps with the best of them. But outside of that we start to lack.
    Last edited by Andoreniel; 06-29-2011 at 09:14 AM.
    Andoreniel - 50 Mage
    Specs
    Chloromancer/Warlock/Archon - Support/Heals
    SC/ELE/Archon - DPS

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andoreniel View Post
    Its not only your guild thats wrong. If you roll multiple SCs their debuffs stack ontop of each other increasing their damage.
    My SC/ELE dps out does everyone on Duke for example. I have a mediocre ST rotation and a great AoE for brownies and faires. You combine that with 2 other SCs and we burn duke real quick.
    You burn the AoE fast... That's what you do quickly. Also you can only have 2 SC in a party... Also you cannot have SC's in a party with physical dps. Also even with this stacking you still pull ~300-500dps less than zoomancer (depending on timing and skill level). Also even with zoomancer you still do less dps than rogues, warriors and clerics. Also your dps on Duke seems ok because you are casting AoE while others are focusing on ST.
    Last edited by woopedazz; 06-29-2011 at 09:15 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by woopedazz View Post
    You burn the AoE fast... That's what you do quickly. Also you can only have 2 SC in a party... Also you cannot have SC's in a party with physical dps. Also even with this stacking you still pull ~300-500dps less than zoomancer (depending on timing and skill level). Also even with zoomancer you still do less dps than rogues, warriors and clerics. Also your dps on Duke seems ok because you are casting AoE while others are focusing on ST.
    You can have more than 2 SCs in a raid. Not sure how you calculate 300-500 less dps, but sure ok. On johlen I do well over 1k DPS on the Bomb (about the same as everyone).
    Yes on Duke I AoE in between phases which helps healers since everyone isnt being pounded by brownies. But rogues are AoEing during this phase as well. And during Duke I can parse over 1k for the whole fight which is above every other class.
    Another case of people wanting to only accept arguments that prove their point. (Also Im not saying our DPS is high by any means, but the concept of people refusing to bring Mages because of DPS just isnt true because we have our uses outside of those fights. Our DPS does need some buffing though)
    Andoreniel - 50 Mage
    Specs
    Chloromancer/Warlock/Archon - Support/Heals
    SC/ELE/Archon - DPS

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andoreniel View Post
    You can have more than 2 SCs in a raid. Not sure how you calculate 300-500 less dps, but sure ok. On johlen I do well over 1k DPS on the Bomb (about the same as everyone).
    Yes on Duke I AoE in between phases which helps healers since everyone isnt being pounded by brownies. But rogues are AoEing during this phase as well. And during Duke I can parse over 1k for the whole fight which is above every other class.
    Another case of people wanting to only accept arguments that prove their point. (Also Im not saying our DPS is high by any means, but the concept of people refusing to bring Mages because of DPS just isnt true because we have our uses outside of those fights. Our DPS does need some buffing though)
    I think you'll find you are the one only accepting arguments to prove your point. Take a step back and read what you said. All of your points have conditions. And the fact you said "If you roll multiple SCs their debuffs stack ontop of each other increasing their damage." Is just so ****ed up I don't know what to say.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by woopedazz View Post
    I think you'll find you are the one only accepting arguments to prove your point. Take a step back and read what you said. All of your points have conditions. And the fact you said "If you roll multiple SCs their debuffs stack ontop of each other increasing their damage." Is just so ****ed up I don't know what to say.
    What point has a condition? Please explain.

    I never claimed that we are the best ST DPS. I never claimed that we are the best AoE DPS. I never claimed we are the best suited for anything in particular. I am just saying that we arent as useless as people seem to believe.

    A huge component to the current mage "problem" is that people as a whole dont like change. They want to stick to their rotations and specs that they have gotten use to and good with, and dont want anyone to mess with it (unless its to buff it).

    Can we all agree, that changes to DOM were pretty cool and needed? They also made a DPS Dom pretty enticing. Also AoE DPS for SC is not terrible. Its not even bad. the problem is that they made our specs harder (if not impossible) to do top end ST damage. But even then its not like we are scrubs, for short periods of time (during burn phases on lots of bosses) we can compete with the top dogs. I mean what high end difficult boss is a tank and spank. They all have phases and nuances that make constant DPS hard if not impossible. Again not saying we dont need some buff, but its not nearly as bad as we all make it out to be.

    At first I was pissed and started rolling a rogue for a couple of days, then went back to my mage, tested like 20 different specs and started to tweak everything I did. I hated it, but at the same time it also made the game kind of new. All Im saying is that the nerf that has happened which I accept isnt as bad as some people make it out to be.
    Andoreniel - 50 Mage
    Specs
    Chloromancer/Warlock/Archon - Support/Heals
    SC/ELE/Archon - DPS

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Poke thread. Everyone bite on that pillow.
    Whoa whoa whoa!

    Dinner first.
    Stigas - 50 Defiant Mage - Rank 5
    <PeeKay>
    US-Dayblind (PvP)

  13. #13
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    lies... mages in my guild are highest DPS and one of the most numerous.

    You need a more specific thread, either talk about how guilds see mages or your opinion of changes you want for mage souls but not both in one thread

  14. #14
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    SC electrify and ice shards do not stack with other SC. You might be able to share hypothermia..but im not 100% on that one.

  15. #15
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    This is why I have written this threat:


    Quote Originally Posted by Travqt View Post
    Warmaster is a fight with an add (wisp). If I could go back and rename this post to 1900+ spec I would but unfortunately it's too late for that. Rogues\Warriors\Clerics in my guild with BiS gear are all doing over 1900 dps and no mages can break 1800 Single Target. I've yet to see ANY mage in game do 1800 single target on pluto and even on warmaster with an add other mages struggle to break 1700.

    Mages Do not have a combo that can do 1900+ in a real encounter. I did 1670 on pluto tonight with SC\Ele and what I would really like to see for the mage class is the devs to just let use play Sc\ele for Single target as well as AoE. The reason I want that to happen is because I think SC\Ele is one of the most challenging, and most rewarding classes I've ever played. I use something like 11-12 spells and toggle my charge on and off like an insane person. I use charge on every other Lightning Strike as well as my AB\RS etc.

    http://www.bxy.us/fohparse/1.html

    Blitzberg = Warrior 1981dps
    Kythik = Rogue 1948dps
    Noah = Cleric 1931dps
    Travqt = Mage 1670dps - 7th over all dps; why even bring mage DPS?

    People very often just see the numbers and values of each classes. Therefore, only best classes with best dps may join T3-raids.

    And it didn´t just started with patch1.3.
    It already started with patch 1.2.


    Also see:


    Quote Originally Posted by Indiffference View Post
    For the uninitiated ones, Travqt has BiS gear in all slots. Why the hell would you ever bring more than 2 mages per raid now (1 archon and MAYBE 1 chloro)? To avoid sharding cloth? Oh, and I'd like to mention that mages don't have the 1-2 button macro builds that allow 1900dps. Don't even bring movement into this, there are no fights where movement is a greater inconvenience for melee as compared to the casters.
    Patiently awaiting either a) this post getting locked or b) relocating this post to the mage forum where it gets ignored into the ground.

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