+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 139

Thread: Concerning the Chloro "nerf" QQ

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    27

    Default Concerning the Chloro "nerf" QQ

    Please read my entire post before responding. I am tired of reading threads where something has been stated in the OP and a poster responds with tl;dr and then goes on to complain about something that was covered in the original post. Now, moving on.

    This is concerning all the QQ I am seeing on the forums about chloros not being able to heal T1 and T2 dungeons: yes you can. I do it all the time on my chloro. I do not raid except for raid rifts. I have mostly crafted epics and a few pieces of T1/2 gear. Everything is enchanted and I only have 4 lesser essences. I am specc'd 51 Chloro/ 10 Dom/ 5 Warlock. I use every tool that Trion gave us, albeit situationally. It makes it (somewhat) more interesting than VS and NT spam, as it was pre-1.3, with a Flourish and/or Bloom tossed in.

    Now, even though they have given us more goodies to play with, we are still stuck in the groove of using predominantly two spells to heal: Void Life and Nature's Touch. To be honest though, I hardly ever use Nature's Touch. I spam Void Life. Does it make this slightly monotonous? Yes, yes it does. Does it do the trick? Again, yes. But I can cast other spells if needed.

    When I first hit 50, I was wearing mostly quest greens and blues and some dungeon gear. Nothing I was wearing was from Stillmoor; I hadn't done any questing there and I still have not done many there to this day. I was still using quest greens and blues from Droughtlands, Shimmersand and IPP. This was also well before the expert dungeon nerf. After I hit 50, I hit my focus minimum and replaced what gear I could with what dropped from regular dungeons, then started getting the gear from experts. I was healing them just fine with my VS and NT spam with a support class backing up the group and on my own.

    I realize that a lot of us are used to main-healing dungeons without a support healer or anyone actually fulfilling a support role. This is not what Trion intended. If you disagree, then I refer you to hit your "I" key and looking at the box labels listing the roles. So that argument can be laid to rest.

    Their intention is and has been to have a person in the group dpsing and supporting/buffing the rest of the group. Sadly, Archons are not typically found in 5 mans as Bards are the preferred support class. By definition a support class is NOT required to be an off-healer. A warlord or an archon does not heal, they provide various buffs that make it easier on everyone else to do their job more efficiently.

    I can solo heal T1 and T2 dungeons. Sometimes, if the PUG I am healing is doing fine, I tell the support class to switch to pure dps. Yes, I PUG it. I do not belong to a guild so LFG is my friend.

    The only problem I have with the changes to chloro in 1.3 is our dps nerf and becoming “clericy”. I have a 50 cleric who is as equally geared as my mage. My mage heals more, keeps groups alive better and provides nice dps. My cleric has two healing specs: 51 sentinel and 51 warden. My chloro is hands-down a better healer, even after the changes and was undoubtedly better before the 1.3.

    I only have four problems with the changes in 1.3:
    1. The two veil buffs we get now. I don't care for that. I liked one veil. It made sense with Synthesis. I do not switch veils in the middle of combat, either. That's just stupid. If I have to do that, the dps who I would be trying to save would be dead anyway because of the GCD wasted. Plus, if you have to switch your veil, then you should have cast radiant spores earlier.
    2. Our dps was reduced while we were given more direct heals. They will have reduced our dps to force us to use our other spells, that only makes sense. But forcing us to use anything other than our dps spells goes against the nature of the class. Our dps to hps conversion was increased. We aren't clerics, we don't want to be clerics. Up our damage output; give us another dps spell. Direct healing is and should be minimal. We are mages and mages dps. Pre-1.3 levels would be nice, but it's probably asking too much. I only use Natural Healing between pulls and then only after I've used Flourish and Bloom. I do NOT use it during combat. I think the 51 point talent is silly, even though I understand the need for it, am glad to have it and will use it during the appropriate phases. But reducing our dps was crappy.
    3. If we are stuck with having two veils, leave the changes but add to them a little bit. Perhaps give LGV a bonus percentage to radiant spores proccing. And let LBV provide a small percentage bonus to our damage, since we shouldn't be using Natural Healing during combat, unless the boss is immune and we have nothing to hit. I use radiant spores in my dungeons. It's 16 seconds of mana-free healing when it procs. Anyone who says it's a waste is a fool. The tank/group is not always taking massive amounts of damage; if you don't have time to throw your RS on something being hit, then you are in either a terrible group or you are panicking over nothing. Spare that one GCD, your group will love you for it. Especially the other clothies.
    4. Provided we are stuck with the two different veils, using LBV for tank healing excludes us from the LGV of another chloro (found during raid situations). Adjust LBV to provide the same bonus of LGV to the chloro only.

    Briefly, for those who are not 50: make sure your support class team-member is actually doing just that: supporting. If they aren't, ask them to. If they still won't, tell them to. If they still won't, kick them. Support classes are required. Use them. They love to be used. Eventually, you will get to the point where you out-gear the dungeon. It's not as far away as you think it is.

    Trion listened to your complaints about 51 point chloro not being viable. For the most part, there was only whining with no suggestions on how to change it. So they made changes they thought we would like. They had great ideas and implemented them. Now all they have to do is tweak a bit and it'll be even better than it is now and was before. Now that you have 51 point chloro and it does work, you are now complaining that you only have 51 point chloro, you can't spec any differently. You wanted 51 chloro, you got it, you are now complaining about not being able to go part-way up the tree. You can, you will then be support. You whiners will never be happy, so just shut up.

    Quit comparing clerics and chloros. I was reading a thread last night and someone said that a cleric healer has more utility than a chloro. No they do not. The three healing souls clerics have are just that: healing souls. Purifier has shields, sentinel specializes in AoE healing and warden specializes in vast amounts of over-healing that is meant to off-set any spike damage that may occur. Chloro has two of those three things: over-healing (which has been reduced) and AoE healing (which has been reduced). Think of the chloro as a combo sentinel/warden that also brings the added benefit of dps to the group where the other healing souls do not.

    Chloros are not gimped in any way. Just adapt to the new changes. I was looking forward to 1.3 and I'm glad it's here. Should a few things be tweaked slightly? Yes, but it's as though Trion just created this soul and it's brand new. They pretty much scrapped the old soul and re-tooled it. Give them and it a chance. Don't start whining and moaning just because it's not the same as before, which is what you originally wanted: viable 51 point chloro. You asked for it, you got it, live with it. Learn it and love it. It is fantastic.

    Oh and for those interested, my stats are: SP 851, Spell Crit 571 and Focus 174. Remember, my gear is all enchanted.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Thank you for sharing your opinion.

  3. #3
    Sez
    Sez is offline
    Ascendant Sez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vouivre View Post
    Thank you for sharing your opinion.
    My mage alt has a hard time keeping "first time here" tanks alive now. I actually have to utilize all my spells... It SUX. I feel like I'm tanking as a rogue all over again.
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

    - Rogue Lead - <Gestalt> - Defiant - Dayblind Server -

  4. #4
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Chloro healing feels very monotone now. NT, VL, and NH all do about the same tank heals per second with very similar cast times. I find myself just spamming VL over and over because it provides the most reliable stream of healing. Burst comes at an opportunity proc which I think is kind of sad.

    I keep trying to think what Chloro is missing that would make it more fun and interactive to play. Maybe if the cooldown was removed from LBV and LGV so we could choose on a heal by heal basis whether to focus on tank or party heals that would provide some interesting mechanic. Chloro is definitely missing a damage reduction type mitigation skill, so maybe Trion could change the spell reflect heal to, say, reflect 25% damage for 10 seconds. That would provide a mitigation skill that is still in line with Chloros doing damage to heal, and would provide a way to deal with spike damage on a tank.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vouivre View Post
    Thank you for sharing your opinion.
    You're right, it is my opinion, but it has a basis in fact. The new changes are not game-breaking by any stretch of the imagination and certainly not when put to use. If you are having trouble healing after 1.3, my suggestion would be to either ask for help from the community or really give the new playstyle a good think. Don't just complain because you got what you asked for, 51 chloro, and you don't like how they changed it. The majority of what I read on the forums is complaining. I intentionally didn't read anything anyone wrote about the changes in 1.3 until after I tried it out for myself. I went into it with an open mind and thought it was great. Then I read the forum threads and it started to make me dislike the changes, due to the amount of complaining and whining. I had to go back and play it again just to see if I maybe missed what the whiners were bemoaning. I didn't (and don't) see it.

    There are plenty of us on this forum who do not feel that chloromancer has been destroyed, maybe you should think about that as well. There are those of us that feel that chloromancer now has better (some are situational) tools at our disposal than we had before and that we have what we need to cover all the healing which could be required of us.

    Remember, I PUG only, I'm not in a guild. I deal with all kinds of tanks, from the over-geared to the under-geared to the "this is my first time tanking"-tank. I don't have any problems with healing these dungeons, solo or with an off-healer. At times it is difficult. At some point, there is no amount of healing that can save your group. The other day, for instance, I was healing a group and we were on Konstantin. The rogue tank said he only did it once and it was a couple months ago. We wiped repeatedly. He and I started talking about what we could both do to complete the dungeon. As I don't know anything about tanking, he explained there were a few abilities he needed to use that provided buffs for him to tank properly. Adding in the spikes popping faster didn't help matters. After talking for a few minutes, we worked out a strategy that involved only me healing and we made it through. If you are not discussing options and strategies with your group, then you are just plain doing it wrong. It just takes a little bit more consideration than spamming VS and NT now. This game is both interactive and social. Can we still spam two spells? Yes, if we have someone off-healing. But we shouldn't be playing chloro that way anymore. It's more dynamic and interactive. Our two button or one macro rotation has changed to a spell priority list. We have all the tools needed to heal any situation. If you do not think we have, give me an example and I will tell you how to heal it.

    Too many people are being alarmist and jumping on the bandwagon of, "Oh it's new! It's bad! GG Trion for destroying chloro!" Really give it a go. If you are really having that much trouble healing a fight, just post on the forums and someone, somewhere, will give you an answer. But don't just complain. It's not constructive.
    Last edited by Kuullandor; 06-28-2011 at 11:05 AM.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    286

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuullandor View Post
    You're right, it is my opinion, but it has a basis in fact. The new changes are not game-breaking by any stretch of the imagination and certainly not when put to use. If you are having trouble healing after 1.3, my suggestion would be to either ask for help from the community or really give the new playstyle a good think. Don't just complain because you got what you asked for, 51 chloro, and you don't like how they changed it. The majority of what I read on the forums is complaining. I intentionally didn't read anything anyone wrote about the changes in 1.3 until after I tried it out for myself. I went into it with an open mind and thought it was great. Then I read the forum threads and it started to make me dislike the changes, due to the amount of complaining and whining. I had to go back and play it again just to see if I maybe missed what the whiners were bemoaning. I didn't (and don't) see it.

    There are plenty of us on this forum who do not feel that chloromancer has been destroyed, maybe you should think about that as well. There are those of us that feel that chloromancer now has better (some are situational) tools at our disposal than we had before and that we have what we need to cover all the healing which could be required of us.

    Remember, I PUG only, I'm not in a guild. I deal with all kinds of tanks, from the over-geared to the under-geared to the "this is my first time tanking"-tank. I don't have any problems with healing these dungeons, solo or with an off-healer. At times it is difficult. At some point, there is no amount of healing that can save your group. The other day, for instance, I was healing a group and we were on Konstantin. The rogue tank said he only did it once and it was a couple months ago. We wiped repeatedly. He and I started talking about what we could both do to complete the dungeon. As I don't know anything about tanking, he explained there were a few abilities he needed to use that provided buffs for him to tank properly. Adding in the spikes popping faster didn't help matters. After talking for a few minutes, we worked out a strategy that involved only me healing and we made it through. If you are not discussing options and strategies with your group, then you are just plain doing it wrong. It just takes a little bit more consideration than spamming VS and NT now. Can we still spam two spells? Yes, if we have someone off-healing. But we shouldn't be playing chloro that way anymore. It's more dynamic and interactive. Our two button or one macro rotation has changed to a spell priority list. We have all the tools needed to heal any situation. If you do not think we have, give me an example and I will tell you how to heal it.

    Too many people are being alarmist and jumping on the bandwagon of, "Oh it's new! It's bad! GG Trion for destroying chloro!" Really give it a go. If you are really having that much trouble healing a fight, just post on the forums and someone, somewhere, will give you an answer. But don't just complain. It's not constructive.
    I never asked for Chloros to be changed. I quite liked them as they were. And yes, I have "given it a go" and found what works for me.

    I dont heal 5 mans I dont know - ill run new people through T1/2 on my cleric instead, it just works better especially for Rogue tanks and new tanks or marginal DPS. Raids as a Mage i either DPS or "raid heal" - aka have a beer while pressing 121212121212 with the occasional WASD reposition. So dynamic! So interactive! And yes, it does big HPS. Stupid levels for the effort.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    391

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuullandor View Post
    Too many people are being alarmist and jumping on the bandwagon of, "Oh it's new! It's bad! GG Trion for destroying chloro!" Really give it a go. If you are really having that much trouble healing a fight, just post on the forums and someone, somewhere, will give you an answer. But don't just complain. It's not constructive.
    Specifics on what you are not able to do would help. Because just saying we wipe on trash makes you and your party sound like a bunch of baddies. If there are specific bosses that you have issues with feel free to reach out to the public. I know that I had issues with the last boss in CC. We let the tank do all the purges and skated by the next fight with no issue.
    Last edited by Andoreniel; 06-28-2011 at 11:15 AM.
    Andoreniel - 50 Mage
    Specs
    Chloromancer/Warlock/Archon - Support/Heals
    SC/ELE/Archon - DPS

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Verez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    467

    Default

    Clerics bring no utility? They just heal? This is the only thing I have to comment on your post, but you should probably go ask some Clerics what they bring to the raid in terms of Utility, I can assure you my 50 cleric does not just bring heals.

    Good post, even though the cleric/chloro argument ruined the entire post.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    391

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Merre View Post
    I never asked for Chloros to be changed. I quite liked them as they were. And yes, I have "given it a go" and found what works for me.

    I dont heal 5 mans I dont know - ill run new people through T1/2 on my cleric instead, it just works better especially for Rogue tanks and new tanks or marginal DPS. Raids as a Mage i either DPS or "raid heal" - aka have a beer while pressing 121212121212 with the occasional WASD reposition. So dynamic! So interactive! And yes, it does big HPS. Stupid levels for the effort.
    So you dont like that its too easy for raids but dont like that its too hard for 5 mans??? Clerics do have better burst heals, so rogue tanks are harder to heal for chloros at the beginning of a fight, but thats why you have bloom and in a worst case scenario your 2 min cooldown, enough time to let the rogue get his buffs up.
    ... and you went back to your spamming 121212, which furthers my belief that you are missing something. In a raid, I am casting all of my dps skills with a flourish or radiant spores mixed in. what exactly are you spamming in a raid??? Im so confused.
    Andoreniel - 50 Mage
    Specs
    Chloromancer/Warlock/Archon - Support/Heals
    SC/ELE/Archon - DPS

  10. #10
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,707

    Default

    TLDR chloro needs support until gear but is ok once they get it.

    My response -- why should a cleric healer be able to solo heal in greens but a chloro requires full T2 to do it? It didn't used to be this way. Why was this change needed? Where are our 'damage reduction', wards, and other tools clerics have to make up for our lost HPS?

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara Flaviusx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,115

    Default

    As a raiding mage I personally love the new chloro, but think the complaints from leveling mages or mages that focus on 5 man content have some merit. I don't see how a chloro can main heal with less than 51 points in chloro, which won't happen until pretty late in the game. The two veil system is very awkward in 5 mans; they ought to at least remove the cooldown on the veils imo. (Which is perhaps just another way of saying that we really didn't need a two veil system. Raiding chloros more or less ignore the two veil dilemma because they will be focused on either raid or tank heals and not switching it up much.)

    Chloro raid healing is baller right now, though.

  12. #12
    aux
    aux is offline
    Ascendant aux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,306

    Default

    I'll just remind you that the first new version of the Chloromancer (that nobody asked for, mind you) was a version without the new Void Life, that would NOT have been able to solo heal. Go ahead, try it with Vile Spores instead of Void Life. It was our great QQ that made them change Void Life, and give the Chloromancer the ability to heal back!

    Anyway, you should have noticed that few people actually complain about not being able to heal. The ones that are, are under level 50. And they're absolutely right to complain.

    Most of us simply don't like how Trion completely changes the playstyle of something we enjoyed, rather than doing some minor adjustments. You don't change the rules once the game has started. It pisses people off.


    As for the support role, no thanks. I can take care of things myself, and a support only slows the group down. And besides, if it's a rogue, he'll probably hate your guts if you ask him to play Bard. Worst class ever.
    I'm so BORED

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    391

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ururu View Post
    TLDR chloro needs support until gear but is ok once they get it.

    My response -- why should a cleric healer be able to solo heal in greens but a chloro requires full T2 to do it? It didn't used to be this way. Why was this change needed? Where are our 'damage reduction', wards, and other tools clerics have to make up for our lost HPS?
    show us a cleric that can even enter a T2 all in greens before running your mouth. Then show us the parses. Because I call shenanigans on anyone entering a T2 in greens, and you dont need T2 gear to heal as a chloro, I still have two crafter pieces and blue pants. Soooooo ... shenanigans
    Andoreniel - 50 Mage
    Specs
    Chloromancer/Warlock/Archon - Support/Heals
    SC/ELE/Archon - DPS

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Verez View Post
    Clerics bring no utility? They just heal? This is the only thing I have to comment on your post, but you should probably go ask some Clerics what they bring to the raid in terms of Utility, I can assure you my 50 cleric does not just bring heals.

    Good post, even though the cleric/chloro argument ruined the entire post.
    I said that they bring more than just heals to the group. We chloros do the same. My 50 cleric has as much utility as my chloro.

  15. #15
    Champion of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,263

    Default

    Tank healing was reduced. If you look at the synthesis reduction, and parse the before and after numbers, it is clear. That is a nerf.

    There will be more wipes when a Chloro solo heals than when a Cleric solo heals (gear and skill being equal). That is my opinion, but it is an opinion based on the facts. Clerics heal as well (or better than) Chloros. On top of that, Clerics have more "oh crap" abilities and shields than Chloro.

    If a group is going to wipe 5 times using a Chloro main healer and only 1 or 2 with a Cleric main healer, who will they choose?




    As an aside ... I had a Chloro main heal a PUG last night. We wiped once on trash, so I switched to my Chloro/Lock off-heal spec to help out. He told me to switch back to dps, that could could solo heal just fine. We wiped on a boss. I asked if the group wanted me to off-heal. He again said "no, I can solo heal this, it was lag". We wiped a third time, and he dropped group and logged.

    Makes you wonder how long it will take for people to start dropping group when they see a Chloro pop up as the main healer.
    Last edited by Brad1959; 06-28-2011 at 11:19 AM.
    I am a lawyer in real life, but I try to roleplay an honorable character ;)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts