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Thread: What now for mages?

  1. #1
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    Default What now for mages?

    **Please try to keep the "my class is completely terrible at PvP because I don't have *insert ability here* and stuff" in the other threads. May as well have one thread that discusses some glaring issues that have been present since Beta.**

    TL;DR at the bottom

    =====================================

    Let's get one thing straight right away. This is not the dark ages for mages. They have already come and gone. For those of you not fortunate enough to play during Beta (we'll say late Beta, because early beta is irrelevant in almost everything) or 1.0 feel blessed and understand that things can always be worse than they are currently... Sooooo much worse. We're living in the shadow of a golden age and everything seems darker as a result.

    The problem is that instead of buffing us appropriately at times of need we would get strange nerfs instead. Required nerfs to stop unintended soul pairings? Yes. Appropriate at the time? No. Tempest and BP reshuffling fall into this category and there are many more that I can't remember. The weird **** is that it just wasn't appropriate; the timing was so poor and the direction was so unclear with each hotfix to reduce the damage of random spell x or shuffle soul y when all along the most glaring issue was that mages were getting trashed in PvP and were unable to farm as quickly and had more downtime than any other class in PvE. Survivability was just plain bad.

    The whole situation made it seem like the instigator of the changes was someone from the outside looking in. Someone who did not play a mage, but who played against mages and had spreadsheets with the wrong numbers on them sitting infront of them. Someone who saw the fact that a single mage dot ticking for more than any other soul's dot was of the utmost importance when it came to a change log and overlooked the serious issues underlining the class as a whole.

    Then the mage patch came and everyone was happy. *Cut rant about what was good and bad post-patch, it's not really what this post is about and went off topic for about 5 paragraphs*

    ^The TL;DR of the rant is basically pigeon-holing of the "class" was slightly more severe than other classes. Chloro's heal co-efficient for NT+synth was too strong and needed a reajustment (not a reworking of the class mechanics), Pyro was imbalanced and mages hated being forced to play it as much as our enemies hated playing against it. SC/ele was our ONLY option for PvE dps and didn't quite measure up to warriors/rogues/more geared clerics.

    Trion had the perfect opportunity to buff our other souls in the patch, reduce chloro healing by a small amount and reduce Pyro's burst ability without altering their overall output and you know what? They kind of did ok!? Yet at the same time the completely ****ed it up. Again it reeks of someone from the outside looking in issuing the changes.

    Positives:
    -Dom got the changes it so richly deserved and had waited for until it almost died of old age.
    -Pyro burst was reduced (more in negatives).
    -Chloro healing was brought into line (more in negatives).
    -Necro and warlock were buffed (more in who gives a **** it didn't do anything, it's like giving a paraplegic some new running shoes).

    Negatives:
    -Pyro was not brought into line correctly. While I like the fact they decided to alter the PvP/PvE damage cooefficients of some spells (finally) it is simply not a good way to do things when the PvE aspect of the soul is just as boned as in PvP. It's been brought up multiple times before: Nukes should have been placed on shorter CD's and not be proc reliant and do less damage per cast. BAM: More overall dps output and less burst. Soul fixed.
    -Chloro: Some of the changes I think we all agree are great. From a purely objective point of view the changes really aren't that bad in raid situations, in fact they are quite nice. That said, mages with appropriate gear in experts and mages not yet lvl 50 would like a word with the dev. Let's not solely focus on raid scenarios, mage healing at lower levels just got gutted and then spat on.
    -SC/ele: Nobody get's why it happened. It was stupid. Buff cloudburst if you are going to nuke our AoE, it's that simple. Everyone who plays a mage knows it, again reeks of a dev who doesn't play a mage. For what it's worth sabs do more AoE and ST damage than SC/ele both before and after 1.3 hitting 2 buttons..but that's ok so don't worry about it /QQ.
    -Actual responses to warrior concerns that in turn led to the forced response to mages with made up changes to necro and lock. Yes made up. They didn't exist until the moment they realised how pissed we all were. The "buffs" were then inserted into the patch notes at a later date in such a way that it had no actual affect on the game anyway. It was a lacklustre diversion/damage control attempt by Trion to offset the mass reroll/unsubs from the mage community by "buffing necro and lock." It just doesn't work when you buff a soul to make it viable when compared to our top dps build...after you nerf our top dps build...which does less dps than other souls anyway.
    -The creation of the zoomancer. Only Rift could possibly have this being our best dps >_<
    -The incoming nerf of Necro-Dom as another unintended BP/tempest soul paring.

    ================================================== ==============
    ================================================== ==============

    So with all that out of the way we come to this question: What now for mages?

    1.3 was a mild repeat of Beta+early release where appropriate directions were taken in an innapropriate fashion and at an inappropriate time. HOWEVER! In a surprising twist buffs were actually given alongside the nerfs and this can only indicate that a shift is taking place.

    Either we look at this as more of the same. Or we take heart and hope for better. Remind me of "Don't worry, at 50 PvP will change. We'll become good I'm sure of it," however I can't help but feel we might be in store for some positive changes in the future. Or is it still a case of our patcher being on the outside looking in. It looks that way, but looks can sometimes be deceiving.




    ...Of course for the actual future of mages we need to look at one thing to answer this question: Warriors. Warriors are in a way our opposite. While in Beta/early release they were so ridiculously OP we were ****. While we received small nerfs, they received small fixes. When the 1-shot-champ-AoE fear-undying PvP king got a nerf, pyro started to dominate, etc.

    So where will mages go in the future? The answer is to simply look at warriors, if they get nerfed we will soon get a massive buff.

    PS I was bored. This thread has nothing to do with anything and is simply a rant about nothing in particular.
    Last edited by woopedazz; 06-27-2011 at 09:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    Agree we need show our concerns about the mage class, alas we are the one who are playing them and paying for it..
    If we don't enjoy wat we get after paying $15 a month, its just heart breaking..
    Last edited by killthedesires; 06-27-2011 at 10:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    You hit alot of it on the head.

    Quite simply, Im rerolling as a rogue. Im tired of the changing mechanics. The 'Bloodmage' feel of the Chloro is what kept me playing a mage since Alpha. Storm Callers just found their niche along the way and even SC's were not topping the dps charts when matched with a good dps rogue. As much as I touted the mage in Alpha, I'm just plain tired of fighting a losing cause.

    At least rogues have versatility. As a 51 Chloro/15 lock I can still manage but I'm in t2/t3 gear with around 1200 ish sp, 770 ish sc, and 223 focus raid buffed. With more time and practice I'm sure the changes won't make that much difference in a raid setting but the whole draw of the Chloro for me was the DPS for more healing aspect. (At least from the start I think they were trying to go that route with the Chloro.. now its even less so)

    I've got one more run on Lord Greenscale tomorrow night but I'm pretty certain my time of playing the mage is fading fast. If I can't get the hang of the rogue.. my time in Rift may be fading fast.
    Last edited by Cordite; 06-27-2011 at 10:12 PM.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara Flaviusx's Avatar
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    I'm optimistic, mostly because if we haven't quite hit rock bottom, we're near enough. The numbers will come in and the data will compel Trion to make adjustments. Mages are not doing well in raids right now (outside of chloro and archon.)

    Trion has shown that it can react fairly quickly, if not always wisely. They won't let this linger for too long. But they have demonstrated tendency of doing things that triggers the law of unintended consequences. So whatever buffs we get down the line will create their own new weirdness.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Ok, I forgot to turn my combatlogging off after GSB (phase 2 of the event kinda had me focused on some fun invasions in Shimmer) so I lost my GSB data but I am actually pretty happy with the results I saw on my mini window.

    Build: 36chloro/30lock - no reason to spec in NT imo.
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1z...A000o.xx0V0VVx

    Stats buffed:
    1231sp -1314sp (depending on what/when archon/bard buffs were up and running)
    867sc
    223 focus

    Lord Greenscale is a aoe heal intensive fight. Pre 1.3 I used a NT/VS macro, Ruin/Withering vines macro and a Neddra's Touch/Dark Touch macro. ( http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...qfcz0o.xxoV0Vq )

    Pre 1.3 - I could pull in from 250-350 dps with 1000 - 1200 hps

    Post 1.3 - avg 400-450 dps (sometimes spike near 500 depending on opportunity procs and the greater necro essence proc - for 60 sp and which stage of the fight we were in) with an avg 900-1000 hps.

    There was some interesting things I saw.

    1. Pre 1.3, I obviously ran with Synth and spammed the NT/VS macro to help the clerics keep the tank up. After looking at those parses and comparing them to last nights run.. (i.e.. healing the MT w/o synth/nt.. I would have to say cleric healing got a nice buff somewhere in there which makes sense why my hps was a bit lower and overall less spikey)

    2. I kinda like the new challenge of MT healing just using LGV and foregoing LBV, synth, NT. In a sense it has me motivated again to keep the DPS up for better heals.

    One caveat to the good news story: Its been 4-5 weeks since I was actively running T2's and grinding for plaques. Prior to the 1.2 nerf of expert T2's.. 5 man's really needed 2 healers. After 1.2, I only ran a few T2's to help folks get a drop or finish working on their epic quest ect.. and solo healing them was laughably easy. I can only assume that those starting T2's and still trying to break the 800sp mark are going to be in for a rocky road w/o synth & nt.

    Anyway, from my perspective I am content with the viability of the 36/30 build. It actually brings some of that VG Bloodmage flavor back to the role for me.

    I can work with this but in the DPS department mages are in the hurt locker and have been since pre-release. Not very many SC/EM mages were able to get the most out of the build in the first place. (Including myself). However, one of our raiding mages can still put up around 2.6k aoe dps so I know it can be done.
    Last edited by Cordite; 06-29-2011 at 02:50 PM.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Oh hey, I guess I should say that 2.6k parse was most likely due to BS charges from the other SC's getting consumed.

    Since our raids are running fairly mage heavy.. 5-6 mages each run..the BS bug can still be taken advantage of by mages who are watching the stacks.

  7. #7
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    1.4:

    This just looks like another case of someone from the outside looking in and making what they believe to be some enlightened changes because it has the word charge in it and mages use charge... A mage dev who plays mages would be great right about now. Whoever has been employed from Beta --> Now you need to stand up and get heard in your meetings, because you're killing us here.

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