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Thread: Pyro PvP: Viable, but needs help. +Suggestion for Trion

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
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    Default Pyro PvP: Viable, but needs help. +Suggestion for Trion

    So having played a bunch of WF's as pyro (using the same 51pyro/15 archmage you all did, with the same macro and priorities), I have to say that I think Pyro's are much closer to being balanced than ever. The damage is still quite bursty, and you can still take down a healer 1v1, or in a group if you are getting heals. I do absolutely believe that the damage we do is fairly balanced, looking at the damage aspect only.

    The big problem remains the problem that pyros have always had: Survivability.

    Here is the suggestion: Simply remove the 9% health reduction from Burning Bright http://rift.zam.com/en/search.html?q=burning+bright

    I'm not sure if this will actually balance pyros in pvp, but it will go a long way to making the spec much more useful in warfronts.

    This absolutely doesn't change the insanity that remains rank raid boss (i mean rank 6) clerics, and I would agree with everyone that says valor/resilience is a pretty fail mechanic, especially in a game where they can completely control pvp damage outside of pve encounters. But that is somewhat besides the point of balancing mages for pvp.

    Bottom Line: 51-point pyromancers ARE still viable, but need help in the survivability department, and it's as simple as giving pyros back the 9% health they lose through a poorly thought-out talent.

    (If someone wants a screenshot of how I'm doing as pyro in warfronts, feel free to ask, I can screen and post some if you guys like.)

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Frizzlebot's Avatar
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    Im glad to hear that. To be honest I found survivability great on my Pyro. I think the problem is Pyro's stand still and cast from their GoS. I think people need to move more and use the instants when they are up. I only ever casted fireball when I ran out of instants and I only ever used GoS when I needed a shield and to get away. Im squishy but when your moving around a lot its harder for people to focus you.

    My two cents.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker Parnelli's Avatar
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    Just take Inferno back off the global and it's perfect.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parnelli View Post
    Just take Inferno back off the global and it's perfect.
    I would gladly keep the Inferno nerf if they give me my 9% health back.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    The inferno nerf hurts PvE too. It should be revereted back to off GCD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alshyla View Post
    The inferno nerf hurts PvE too. It should be revereted back to off GCD.
    I can't seem to find the "Edit Post" button, but here is a Port Scion I just finished:

    http://imageshack.us/f/580/20110624184121.jpg/

    And yes, that is me at the top. The Guardians on this wargroup don't seem to be quite as OP as my previous wargroup, although it may be they just don't recognize me yet since I transferred.

    As far as inferno being on/off the GCD, trion can buff it by increasing it's PvE damage like they are doing with the rest of the mage tree. I do believe that inferno being off the GCD, even with the lower damage that it does, is too overpowered, and maintain my stance that we should be aiming to get more health at the present time.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parnelli View Post
    Just take Inferno back off the global and it's perfect.
    exactly right

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    decouple cinder from fulm and put inferno back to pre 1.3 and pyro will be viable again.

    The combination nerf of powerball + fulm/cinder couple + witchstone + damage reduction + inferno on GCD was way too much. What ever happened to incremental testing? I know you could have staggered some of these to see how they play out? You testing department BARELY had time to sift through the data points after the powerball nerf and then you slam in the rest.

    Pyro is dead, in pvp, till they give back some burst. Pyro has crappy, at best, overall dps and are nothing without the burst.

    ANYBODY with half a brain knows you way over nerfed it...

  9. #9
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    Just did 3 black gardens. Here were my results:

    First one: Top damage, top killing blows. (3 very good cleric healers)

    Second one: Top damage, top killing blows. (only one cleric, and a chloro)

    Third one: I joined late, the other team had sick healers and our team didn't have enough burst. I still ended up in the middle of the board, but I died too quickly to make much of a difference.

    I really, really think if you guys got your 9% health back, you would notice a huge difference, even with all the damage nerfs. A pyro with our damage now with over 5k health would be a significant boost to survivability and fun.

    edit:
    "decouple cinder from fulm and put inferno back to pre 1.3 and pyro will be viable again. "

    They are decoupled. Can't cast either within 5 seconds of each other.

    Also, I'd like to hear thoughts on my suggestion. Give pyros back their lost health. It makes pyro completely worthless in a solo/pve environment also, when you lose that health.
    Last edited by Pyrocaster; 06-25-2011 at 12:07 AM.

  10. #10
    Champion PandemicUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrocaster View Post
    So having played a bunch of WF's as pyro (using the same 51pyro/15 archmage you all did, with the same macro and priorities), I have to say that I think Pyro's are much closer to being balanced than ever. The damage is still quite bursty, and you can still take down a healer 1v1, or in a group if you are getting heals. I do absolutely believe that the damage we do is fairly balanced, looking at the damage aspect only.

    The big problem remains the problem that pyros have always had: Survivability.

    Here is the suggestion: Simply remove the 9% health reduction from Burning Bright http://rift.zam.com/en/search.html?q=burning+bright

    I'm not sure if this will actually balance pyros in pvp, but it will go a long way to making the spec much more useful in warfronts.

    This absolutely doesn't change the insanity that remains rank raid boss (i mean rank 6) clerics, and I would agree with everyone that says valor/resilience is a pretty fail mechanic, especially in a game where they can completely control pvp damage outside of pve encounters. But that is somewhat besides the point of balancing mages for pvp.

    Bottom Line: 51-point pyromancers ARE still viable, but need help in the survivability department, and it's as simple as giving pyros back the 9% health they lose through a poorly thought-out talent.

    (If someone wants a screenshot of how I'm doing as pyro in warfronts, feel free to ask, I can screen and post some if you guys like.)
    agreed. I think the pyro dps is ok right now, but as it did get reduced the 9% reduction in health doesnt make any sense now.
    RIFT Whitefall server / Pandemik / Mage (Pyromancer) Level 10-50 in warfronts. 300k favour earnt before hitting lvl 50 / Guild Black Company
    First player on Whitefall pvp server to reach 5000 pvp kills (Cutthroat). 25k+ pvp kills now pugged the whole way - single target only.

    WAR Karak Eight Peaks and Karak Norn EU servers / Pandemic / Bright Wizard / Guild Black Company
    DAOC Excalibur EU server / Pandemic / Troll Warrior / Guild Black Company

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PandemicUK View Post
    agreed. I think the pyro dps is ok right now, but as it did get reduced the 9% reduction in health doesnt make any sense now.
    Everyone that is pointing out that pyro sustained dps os ok should just take of his pink glasses and play another class to a decent pvp rank.
    Even WITH the PvE buffs 51 pyro in no way is viable in pve. The sustained dps has always been terrible and in pve NOW is just bad instead of terrible. The reason for pyro beeing feared by many players in warfrints have been their burst. Burst got nerfed and well, yes you can still burst down green/blue or even epic pve geared dudes but whenever you face a rank 6 dude there is no way you can burst him just down. I sit on 35% less damage due to valor on my both toons (mage and cleric), both rank 6. They will never ever be oneshotted, nor globaled from 100% to 0 % by a pyro, nor did they before the patch. The thing is that if you survive the fulminate burst, it is just like a snack after. If the pyro does not get any heals i can just sanction heretic, vex, banish him and he will definately die through those dots, i just leave him and go on with another target. Knowing both sides of such a confrontation i am not very amused, cause my main has been mage.
    Owning mentally handicapped and blue geared ***** as a rank 6 mage is not what i am looking forward to. Premade fights are not playable as pyro at the moment. Eeven at 1.1 a well played premade was not even afarid of 2 assisting pyros. The problem is, that all of the random players have been oneshotted and complained. Now a pyro may be viable in randomgroups but premade, there are by far better choices.
    On the other side the whole playerbase whines about their warrior beeing not viable in pvp but premade groups most often consist of 2 and sometimes even 3 warriors and do fine. Well let the noobs win, buff warriors, nerf mages even more - thats the end for every mage that wants to play in a competitive way.

  12. #12
    Champion PandemicUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kido1983 View Post
    Everyone that is pointing out that pyro sustained dps os ok should just take of his pink glasses and play another class to a decent pvp rank.
    Even WITH the PvE buffs 51 pyro in no way is viable in pve. The sustained dps has always been terrible and in pve NOW is just bad instead of terrible. The reason for pyro beeing feared by many players in warfrints have been their burst. Burst got nerfed and well, yes you can still burst down green/blue or even epic pve geared dudes but whenever you face a rank 6 dude there is no way you can burst him just down. I sit on 35% less damage due to valor on my both toons (mage and cleric), both rank 6. They will never ever be oneshotted, nor globaled from 100% to 0 % by a pyro, nor did they before the patch. The thing is that if you survive the fulminate burst, it is just like a snack after. If the pyro does not get any heals i can just sanction heretic, vex, banish him and he will definately die through those dots, i just leave him and go on with another target. Knowing both sides of such a confrontation i am not very amused, cause my main has been mage.
    Owning mentally handicapped and blue geared ***** as a rank 6 mage is not what i am looking forward to. Premade fights are not playable as pyro at the moment. Eeven at 1.1 a well played premade was not even afarid of 2 assisting pyros. The problem is, that all of the random players have been oneshotted and complained. Now a pyro may be viable in randomgroups but premade, there are by far better choices.
    On the other side the whole playerbase whines about their warrior beeing not viable in pvp but premade groups most often consist of 2 and sometimes even 3 warriors and do fine. Well let the noobs win, buff warriors, nerf mages even more - thats the end for every mage that wants to play in a competitive way.
    my comments all refer to pvp. i havent tried pve in this game and it didnt even occur to me to consider pve.
    RIFT Whitefall server / Pandemik / Mage (Pyromancer) Level 10-50 in warfronts. 300k favour earnt before hitting lvl 50 / Guild Black Company
    First player on Whitefall pvp server to reach 5000 pvp kills (Cutthroat). 25k+ pvp kills now pugged the whole way - single target only.

    WAR Karak Eight Peaks and Karak Norn EU servers / Pandemic / Bright Wizard / Guild Black Company
    DAOC Excalibur EU server / Pandemic / Troll Warrior / Guild Black Company

  13. #13
    Telaran Saurumon's Avatar
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    I am fine with the reduced damage and such, just want our damn finisher (inferno) back off cooldown.

    Not sure why they took it off AND nerfed the damage at the same time was a stupid idea.

    Unless you are going to put ALL warriors/rogues attacks on GCD please put our finisher back off GCD.
    PvP!!!
    Trion-WARRIOR
    We’re generally happy with the current state of Warriors and are continuing to monitor a number of smaller issues involving them.
    Waterheads....

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kido1983 View Post
    ..The reason for pyro beeing feared by many players in warfrints have been their burst. Burst got nerfed and well, yes you can still burst down green/blue or even epic pve geared dudes but whenever you face a rank 6 dude there is no way you can burst him just down. I sit on 35% less damage due to valor on my both toons (mage and cleric), both rank 6. They will never ever be oneshotted, nor globaled from 100% to 0 % by a pyro, nor did they before the patch. The thing is that if you survive the fulminate burst, it is just like a snack after. If the pyro does not get any heals i can just sanction heretic, vex, banish him and he will definately die through those dots, i just leave him and go on with another target. Knowing both sides of such a confrontation i am not very amused, cause my main has been mage.
    Owning mentally handicapped and blue geared ***** as a rank 6 mage is not what i am looking forward to. Premade fights are not playable as pyro at the moment. Eeven at 1.1 a well played premade was not even afarid of 2 assisting pyros. The problem is, that all of the random players have been oneshotted and complained. Now a pyro may be viable in randomgroups but premade, there are by far better choices.
    On the other side the whole playerbase whines about their warrior beeing not viable in pvp but premade groups most often consist of 2 and sometimes even 3 warriors and do fine. Well let the noobs win, buff warriors, nerf mages even more - thats the end for every mage that wants to play in a competitive way.
    omg.... this is exaclty what i think, all ppl go in wf with pve gear... and start crying, pyro in a premade is real useless now, 10min ago i tried a burst on a cleric r6... my fulminate hit for 1k and cinderburst for 800.... i think this is not balanced. now mage in pvp premade can do only dominator or chloromancer... nothing else.
    Last edited by Atomico; 06-25-2011 at 06:20 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomico View Post
    omg.... this is exaclty what i think, all ppl go in wf with pve gear... and start crying, pyro in a premade is real useless now, 10min ago i tried a burst on a cleric r6... my fulminate hit for 1k and cinderburst for 800.... i think this is not balanced. now mage in pvp premade can do only dominator or chloromancer... nothing else.
    The damage reduction in general for r6 players is ridiculous, and there needs to be a better balance, because the real huge imbalance right now is gear, even in r6 v. r4.

    Pyro's frankly got nerfed even harder with gear scaling, it helps other classes way more than mages, and our poor armor means that warriors rip our faces off in 1 gcd.

    And thank you for the one person who responded to my suggestion to remove the 9% health penalty. It's completely an awful part of the game right now, completely unnecessary, and it has the added effect of making pyro in solo pve play or even world pvp really crappy.

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