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Thread: 51 pt Lock opinions

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default 51 pt Lock opinions

    As a 51pt warlock, I was very pleased with the 1.3 changes, however these are still many area of our spec that are not very synergistic. Defile and Empowered Darkness still are a terrible combo. The fact that Defile drains charge means u can either use ur best dot, or ur 51 pt root ability. but not at the same time. So you have to choose one or the other which feels very gimped. It would be nice if Defile didn't consume charge at all, or only consumed a base amount of charge when applied or something of that nature. Also, Radiate Death needs to include more that just 2 dots with how weak our AoE is. Perhaps even any and all dots should be included.
    Last edited by Canas; 06-24-2011 at 06:27 AM.

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canas View Post
    As a 51pt warlock, I was very pleased with the 1.3 changes, however these are still many area of our spec that are not very synergistic. Defile and Empowered Darkness still are a terrible combo. The fact that Defile drains charge means u can either use ur best dot, or ur 51 pt root ability. but not at the same time. So you have to choose one or the other which feels very gimped. It would be nice if Defile didn't consume charge at all, or only consumed a base amount of charge when applied or something of that nature. Also, Radiate Death needs to include more that just 2 dots with how weak our AoE is. Perhaps even any and all dots should be included.
    I love Lock as a class. i like the abilities, they just need to bump up the damage on some of them for it to be viable. I switch between empowered and defile. Basically empowered boosts Void Bolt damage for a few seconds and when empowered goes on CD, I pop Defile for a buff. You get VERY consistent damage out of the spec, its just lower than almost every other class which doesnt make any sense.
    Andoreniel - 50 Mage
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    Chloromancer/Warlock/Archon - Support/Heals
    SC/ELE/Archon - DPS

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple
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    The 51-point root ability seems really yummy. However, with the synergy concerns posted, do you feel it's still worth it? Or perhaps you might bet better yumminess by going 44 Warlock and putting more into Necro (for Soul Purge, etc.). What do you think? I'm not a pet person - just speaking about DoTs/AoEs and synergy.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Yes I really do feel that Empowered Darkness is worth it considering the following fact. When you apply dots with a buff, they maintain that damage buff all the way throughout their duration even if the buff falls off. The purpose of the 51 pt ability is to pop it and apply as many dots as possbile. Even if it only lasts 5 seconds, ur dots will last a lot longer. This works extremely well with Radiate Death. However, the fact that ur best dot cannot be included makes u feel as if Defile is totally worthless. Switching back and forth seems terrible too. The spec is good, its just seems as if Defile is lacking in utility.
    Last edited by Canas; 06-24-2011 at 07:08 AM.

  5. #5
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    from a r6 pvp perspective
    dot someone up all the way then roll out empowered with shadowbolt spam to drain bolt finisher
    i get over 2k rolling crits. insane pressure when u include the dot damage and how fast shadow bolts are.

    i only use defile while kiting or when empowered is on cooldown.

    in 1.2 51lock 15am was still really good. now its even better. i replaced my pyro build with it and have been pleased.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizbini View Post
    from a r6 pvp perspective
    dot someone up all the way then roll out empowered with shadowbolt spam to drain bolt finisher
    i get over 2k rolling crits. insane pressure when u include the dot damage and how fast shadow bolts are.

    i only use defile while kiting or when empowered is on cooldown.

    in 1.2 51lock 15am was still really good. now its even better. i replaced my pyro build with it and have been pleased.
    problem is that this game shouldn't revolve around PvP. I think they made Warlock somewhat viable in PvP as you can move a lot and still do damage, but it is NOT in PvE I love PvP, but I would also like to see it work well in a PvE environment
    Andoreniel - 50 Mage
    Specs
    Chloromancer/Warlock/Archon - Support/Heals
    SC/ELE/Archon - DPS

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andoreniel View Post
    problem is that this game shouldn't revolve around PvP. I think they made Warlock somewhat viable in PvP as you can move a lot and still do damage, but it is NOT in PvE I love PvP, but I would also like to see it work well in a PvE environment
    when u factor in mages archmage tree (r4 15 points in, which you can do with 51 into another tree)
    15% more damage to players
    30% more crit damage
    which is in fact much better then other characters pvp tree
    as well as pve damage has to be so high vs boss's and character hp pools are so small

    you inherently run into problems when trying to balance pvp and pve

    these 2 factors are the main reason ppl QQ on the forums regarding mages being OP, and then of course trion has to nerf the class.

    it almost feels like pyro nerfed fulminate and cinderburst 20% less damage against players was a bandaid fix. but what are the other options? nurfing archmage? i donno but its not easy. maybe trion should nurf archmage a little bit and then increase damage on our offensive souls slightly. that way increasing our pve viability

    stormcaller SHOULD NOT be our #1 single target dps soul. it SHOULD be our #1 aoe spec for pve. necrolock pyrolock ect should be best single target dps souls. i personally am loving the changes to mage. i dont feel nearly as OP as i used too. and having much more options. but at the same time ppl who mainly pve are getting super pissed. i can only hope that ppl dont cancel there subs cause then it would give me less ppl to kill!

  8. #8
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    I really wanted to be 51 lock come 1.3. But looks like we'll still be waiting.

    Did a bit of parsing and PVP, bout 970 SP and 650+ SC, 51 lock 9 necro 6 dom (I think, exact spec isn't at work) and this is my opinion.

    First, warlock damage is improved, but not by much. They seem to have doubled the damage defile does, and it's still not enough to balance out the rest. I did several parses since I kept screwing up the rotation (managing 4 DOTs and working in ED with the right timing can be a PITA sometimes, but I did get a couple parses right), but the best I could get was around 770. Then I dropped dark touch and necrosis from rotation, only using Life Leech, Void Bolt, Defile, and ED when up. Around 720 DPS. Only a 50 dps loss to drop two dots, neddra's, and draining bot? I've convinced myself I've done something wrong, because that seems incredibly off-base.

    Then went 38lock/28 necro for the defile build. 950 DPS, consistently, regardless of how much I'd screw up adding in grave rot. Same with the SC/Ele standard 32/34.

    So it's no good in PVE. Even if it's a rotation issue, that's a problem in itself, because maintaining a rotation for mages is always a bit of a pain. But even the necrolock defile spec requires a ton of micro-management, and the dps was always better. The SC/Ele is also still great, doesn't need a pet, scales well in raids, and is decently manuverable when stacks are up.

    So how about in PVP?

    51 lock's pretty cool in pvp. You do tear down people pretty quickly, and just casting a few dark touch, grasp, and radiate will pump up the overall damage you do. Topping damage done for an entire codex while losing terribly (fun match) is pretty interesting... except you still get no killing blows since it's all dot damage. 1 v 1 it's all right, but it's far better when you get the jump on someone, they die pretty quickly without healing. But even splash heals from a PVP chloro are going to keep someone up through the majority of your dot damage, so it's mixed.

    38/28 just seems to rip people to shreds. You only miss ED, and frankly with defile being up nearly constantly on anything you chose to die, you just dont notice it, nor do you need to worry about it. It makes up for missing soul purge as well, as people die fast. Yes, you miss AM as well, but the pet damage alone makes up for any benefit under rank 4. R4+ might be different, but I doubt it. There's also the pet being on them, and pet's are usually a nuisance at best... except this one does significant dps, even without deathly calling. I noticed people targetting the pet and killing it significantly more often.

    So... 51 lock is still lackluster and behind other specs, especially pve wise. In PVP it's decent, but outpaced by having those points in necromancer, though only when rating from an under R4 perspective.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    This is mainly a PvE discussion just to clarify. I think our dot damage is fine especially with the 1.3 buff, but it's that our abilities just don't work well together like others do. Intersify Elements works very well with Static Flux, Swarming Flames, Elemental Forces and some Pyro abilties. They have great synergy which is what warlock is lacking. Notice how most of the specs paired with ele have great synergy and do great damage. Examples include pyro/ele, sc/ele, and 51pt ele.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker Perros_The_Second's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canas View Post
    Yes I really do feel that Empowered Darkness is worth it considering the following fact. When you apply dots with a buff, they maintain that damage buff all the way throughout their duration even if the buff falls off. The purpose of the 51 pt ability is to pop it and apply as many dots as possbile. Even if it only lasts 5 seconds, ur dots will last a lot longer. This works extremely well with Radiate Death. However, the fact that ur best dot cannot be included makes u feel as if Defile is totally worthless. Switching back and forth seems terrible too. The spec is good, its just seems as if Defile is lacking in utility.
    Defile can be used during ED. Apply it last and right after, turn off ED, it is a toggle, at least it was on test. Start VB spam to maintain charge. Charge will drain fast when ES and Defile both eat it but turning off ED and starting VB spam can prevent Defile from dropping.
    Last edited by Perros_The_Second; 06-24-2011 at 12:50 PM.

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