Play this spec or go home....

[NatashaK]

This is one of the many reasons why I despise instanced raiding as an end game.

But your choices are really to play their specs or not raid. You've got 19 other people spending their time and consumables.

In other MMOs you can do a raid with 3 people or 100. It really doesn't matter. So there isn't the same level on min/maxing. And there's also PvP so only a small part of the raid would want to be glass canons any way.

[Rounin]

Ive been gamming/pvp since the very first graphical mmorpg which was NWN on AoL back in the early 90s.

Bah, kids nowadays...
The real fun is pvp-ing in a mud.

[Manalishi]

Ohh the days of being a hardcore player... Ive been gamming/pvp since the very first graphical mmorpg which was NWN on AoL back in the early 90s.

I have been in guilds where they tell you what you are going to play, what build and how you are going to play it. Yes its awesome winning 99% of your pvp matchs and leading your server in pvery content....then I grew up.

I know this might sound crazy to the elitist and min maxers but there are guilds that play to have fun and are less stringent.

Our gild is one of only two defiant guilds on the server to beat GS and you to have to play a specific build.You are required to meet certain goals and expected to improve..

Team work and execution mean far more than parsing 100 dps than another build. We have mages that dps as pyro/ele...sc/ele..sc/war...51 ele...necro lock...and fully expect to see some dom builds after this new patch.

My advice would be if your going to raid ask your raid leader what kind of dps rate do they expect and strive for something you like to play that meets it.. Because in the end that extra 100 dps someone else is parsing on a dummy means jack compared to your ability to play

I think I remember that name from NWN

[Manalishi]

Bah, kids nowadays...
The real fun is pvp-ing in a mud.

Until you get feebed!

[Unit Five]

That's why it's called "Min/Max" ... there will always be a build that is considered the Max. It's up to your guild/raid leaders to let you know if your DPS is acceptable or not in whatever spec you play.

Just as a hunch here, I am going to guess that as Trion goes through the trees and tries to make 51pt builds more attractive, we are going to see a lot of scaling buffs that add some kind of impact for investing deeply into a tree. Master Archer is a good example... more points in MM = higher DPS from the Master Archer talent, making it at least reasonable DPS for PVE if you want to go the 51pt route. We already see these in a few Cleric trees as well.

Doing this will negate the need to dip into specific souls to cherry-pick maximum DPS buffs. Every one of my Rogue DPS builds has Assassin as its 2nd spec, because that's the only way to really be competitive with damage. There is really no way around it at the moment.

TL;DR
It sucks, but min/maxing is what it is and there is no escaping it. If I guessed right, there is hope a long way off on the horizon.

[Sakorath]

^ winning.
It is very possible to not play the highest dps class and still perform very well.(in most mmos that is) I would know, I played a Boomkin and a Ret paladin in WoW during BC. They were complete garbage unless you had the gear or was actually good...Rift is still very new and the dev team still needs to work on it more. No MMO has ever been close to perfection especially in its beginning phases. With that being said, I still believe the mage class is the most neglected of all the classes in RIFT. Having 1 soul viable for PVE raid dps is just not smart. Secondly, the 1 soul viable for pve dps has a tough rotation and still can not out do warriors and rogues on the parsers. Thirdly, being forced to play pyro in pvp is just not fun. Sure Pyro does alot of dmg... but everyone is Pyro. I am seriously jealous that rogues get three callings that can wreck you in under 5 seconds.. MM.. Sab and Assasin.. as well as perform great in PVE content! CHEATERS! Hopefully the dev team will take the time to read these forums. A lot of mages have great ideas to where improvement should be placed. If we bring enough attention, and sadly QQ, about our issues, the dev team wille eventually fold-in. Hey, they did it for the rogues! Viva la mages!

[Caldern]

theres a difference between min/maxing for that last couple dps, and one spec being 20-30% higher with nothing else really coming close, considering that 5 of our 8 souls are "dps".

It would be one thing if you could pick one of two or three dps specs and get 1450 dps, but your guild needed you to go SC to hit the 1570 mark that would push things over the top for an enrage timer, but as it stands right now, the difference is MUCH MUCH larger than that.

[ururu]

Boy, I'm glad this wasn't specifically addressed to me because then it would look silly.

Lol. I didn't mean to call you out before. My favorite class is forum troll. Instigate +10

OMG, this is SO true. I went to my boss last week and told him I was in a raid guild in Rift, and that we had gear checks and min/max and all that other stuff, and he promoted me to Vice President of the company.

GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK. You fraggin min/max, gear check twits make me want to punch kittens. I've been playing these games since most of you were pooping in your diaper. NEVER, I repeat NEVER have I placed gear/spec/class/race/sex/whatever requirements on ANY of my guild members, and guess what? We've still managed to complete 100% of the games content. Get over yourselves. You think that because you can kill computer generated monsters faster and more efficiently than the next guy makes you a better person in real life? I damn near spit coffee (a drink for older people) on my screen when I read that.

People like you that have to turn EVERY form of entertainment into some kind of competition need to be chemically castrated to prevent my grandchildren from having to deal with your spawn. It's a game ferchrisake, treat it as such. You want to compete, play sports. You want to kill efficiently, join the Military. Keep your high and mighty crap out of my game, please.

LOL, nice rant. Have to admit, you made me laugh with the first paragraph

Working as a team and understanding roles, being flexible to see the big picture.. these are real life skills. I can tell you straight up part of the reason I am succesfull in life is due to raiding and raid leading. It sounds stupid -- even to me -- but it's true. Working as a team is a close second to doing your job in real life.

Put it another way.. if you can make a bunch of pimpley faced ****** geek 18 year olds know-it-alls work together for hours at a time multiple days a week... chances are you can succeed in a professional environment. (Or it might burn you out and cause you to machete|tommy gun everyone).

[Machiko_Naguchi]

Play this spec or go home....

I personally find that statement funny .... "Play this spec or go home" ... because I am home when I play every spec.

[Manalishi]

Lol. I didn't mean to call you out before. My favorite class is forum troll. Instigate +10


LOL, nice rant. Have to admit, you made me laugh with the first paragraph

Working as a team and understanding roles, being flexible to see the big picture.. these are real life skills. I can tell you straight up part of the reason I am succesfull in life is due to raiding and raid leading. It sounds stupid -- even to me -- but it's true. Working as a team is a close second to doing your job in real life.

Put it another way.. if you can make a bunch of pimpley faced ****** geek 18 year olds know-it-alls work together for hours at a time multiple days a week... chances are you can succeed in a professional environment. (Or it might burn you out and cause you to machete|tommy gun everyone).

Getting like minded individuals, no matter the age, to work together toward a common goal isn't much to brag about. Had you said you could adapt to any situation, then I might buy into your self proclaimed leadership skills. But since you already stated, you would kick people not specced a certain way, then you my friend are an inferior leader, and your skills are not needed in MY real world.

[ururu]

But since you already stated, you would kick people

That's right, if you spec 51 warlock to dps in raid, like the op, you will be kicked. No questions. The worst dps spec possible nor the associated mentality has a slot in my raid.

[Ssinjin]

Getting like minded individuals, no matter the age, to work together toward a common goal isn't much to brag about. Had you said you could adapt to any situation, then I might buy into your self proclaimed leadership skills. But since you already stated, you would kick people not specced a certain way, then you my friend are an inferior leader, and your skills are not needed in MY real world.

Yah this guy must not have many mages that raid with him... What two or three for archon/chloro then he says "sorry the rest of you dps mages can't come we have to fill the dps spots up with warriors that do 600 + dps higher than you"

[TheLeviathan]

That's right, if you spec 51 warlock to dps in raid, like the op, you will be kicked. No questions. The worst dps spec possible nor the associated mentality has a slot in my raid.

While Ururu may be a bit blunt (and god knows I love you for it man!), his point is valid. A warlock's precious "survivability" tools that make him useful in PVP will mean exactly squat in a raid where he's going to die just as fast as anyone if he screws up any of the aoe/dps mechanics that cause him to take damage in a raid. A 51 warlock's DPS is so low as to be pointless in a raid environment, and if NE and SL somehow keep him alive in a wipe 3 seconds longer than the rest of the low HP DPS toons, his own personal DPS isn't likely to contribute anything meaningful, especially if half the raid wiped anyway.

[ururu]

Yah this guy must not have many mages that raid with him... What two or three for archon/chloro then he says "sorry the rest of you dps mages can't come we have to fill the dps spots up with warriors that do 600 + dps higher than you"

If warriors are doing 600+ dps more than you, then you like the op must be spec'n into 51 warlock. In other words, you are a noob dps or (worse) a 51 warlock-like-spec who is a special little flower and doesn't care to improve. In either case you are useless.

If you are a noob maybe there is hope, will try to get you to respec and work on your rotation.

[Sakorath]

If warriors are doing 600+ dps more than you, then you like the op must be spec'n into 51 warlock. In other words, you are a noob dps or (worse) a 51 warlock-like-spec who is a special little flower and doesn't care to improve. In either case you are useless.

I agree. Warriors shouldnt be doing 600+. maybe on the average of 200-300. 600 seems quite heavy mate. However, the fact that they are even pulling 200-300 more dps than mages with the same gear troubles me. In my previous post where I had stated that you can be a different spec for pve than SC, and have say 20-30% less dps while still performing decent. I was talking primarily about Necro/lock and Pyro/ele. Those should be the only other pve dps callings thought about when considering mage dps in pve( even if they suck compared to SC). The only decent spec to toss 51 points in is PvP Pyro for Fulminate that is about it. Any other trees skill points become complete garbage post 32 or so points. Only great 32 point pve skill out there for these three specs is Static Discharge and even it is getting nerfed. If you want to be on top of a chart roll rogue or warrior, If you want to dominate in pvp more so than your mage, roll rogue. If you want to be invincible and to be able to out heal everybody even in a support type of class roll cleric. Not a lot of room for mages nowadays...... My question is why trion why?