SP or SC?

[Myso]

So would you guys say it's more important to have high SP or high SC? Currently my numbers are:

880 SP & 700 SC (32%) unbuffed (T2-2.5 gear ), but a lot of people say that SP is better than SC, even though I crit more than I don't, especially in stormcaller build where I crit more often than not, elementalists tempest giving +30% crit damage etc.

I also find it good in pvp where my lightning strike can sometimes 1-hit clerics who are not careful.

At what point do you guys think too much SC is too much, and which of these stats, are actually more favorable in specific situations?

[Disasterpiece1]

Credit to bluedots, conclusion: spellpower is the most important stat for a mage, spell crit is the least important.

"Stat Priorities Itemization:

Spell power is an additive. while Crit is multiplicative. Spell power will give you X more damage to your spells, but Crit will give you Y% more damage to your spells. For example:
Lets say you have 1000 SP and 25% chance to Crit.
If you cast a spell with 100 base damage (damage listed on the tooltip) that has a 100% efficient to SP you will do:
1100 Damage. 1000SP + 100 Base damage.
Now with 25% Crit you have a 25% chance to do 50% more damage (80% if you have the Tempest talent). Which means on average your 25% Crit causes your spell to do 12.5% more damage (50% damage x 25% chance).
If we add that into our first equation (1100 Damage = 1000SP + 100 Base damage) we get something like:
(1000SP + 100 Base damage) x (1+ 12.5%) = 1237.5 damage.

True stat weights are always based on your current gear, but the general rule of thumb is:
Focus* > Sp > Int > Crit & Wisdom
*Focus is only good until you reach the cap for the content you are doing.

When comparing items keep in mind:
Focus until cap is worth at least double any other stat.
2 Int = 1 SP + 2 Crit
1 Crit = 0.0379% chance to Crit.
2 Wis = 1 SP + 3 MP10 (Mana Per 10)

These are relative stat weights. They are variable based on your stats and the spells you are using, but this gives you a general idea.
1 Spell Power = 1.00
1 Intelligence = 0.71
1 Wisdom = 0.50
2 Spell Crit = 0.41"

[Myso]

Ah that's good to know, maybe I should change some items then.. :P


So just to understand it fully, by that equation, you need 5 SC to make up for 1 SC?

[Disasterpiece1]

Ah that's good to know, maybe I should change some items then.. :P


So just to understand it fully, by that equation, you need 5 SC to make up for 1 SP?

Pretty much, yeah.

[Myso]

I got owned by the limited edit. Good to know, thanks!

[Disasterpiece1]

I got owned by the limited edit. Good to know, thanks!

Highly recommend you check out his site, bluedots.org

A lot of useful info and number crunching.

[DeadlySight]

My general gut feeling has always been 1 sp = 3 scrit for dps value wise

I've ended up with a massively SP stacked gear set that I dont mind but I don't agree with 1:5

[Disasterpiece1]

My general gut feeling has always been 1 sp = 3 scrit for dps value wise

I've ended up with a massively SP stacked gear set that I dont mind but I don't agree with 1:5

Have you got any workings to support this? I like numbers as opposed to "general gut feelings".

[DeadlySight]

Have you got any workings to support this? I like numbers as opposed to "general gut feelings".

It's just a gut feeling that if you said I could have one enchant from the following: +100 SP or +450 SCrit I would take the SCrit without thinking twice

And there was a thread/post that showed 2 Scrit = 1 SP in terms of overall DPS.

[Kazzin]

And there was a thread/post that showed 2 Scrit = 1 SP in terms of overall DPS.

Pretty much this. Obviously mean spell damage will be a function of both spell power and spell crit. I ran the numbers for an archon one day (yes masters in mathematics) and at about 1100sp, 700crit it was more or less 2crit = 1sp.

[DeadlySight]

Pretty much this. Obviously mean spell damage will be a function of both spell power and spell crit. I ran the numbers for an archon one day (yes masters in mathematics) and at about 1100sp, 700crit it was more or less 2crit = 1sp.

I've heard and seen math showing 1:2 and 1:5

so I go with my gut and use 1:3 to pick lol

I've ended up hugely SP stacked though. Sitting at 1122:606 atm

[bluedot]

Pretty much this. Obviously mean spell damage will be a function of both spell power and spell crit. I ran the numbers for an archon one day (yes masters in mathematics) and at about 1100sp, 700crit it was more or less 2crit = 1sp.

I would really like to see those numbers.

[DeadlySight]

ok, i've been going over these numbers again to now include tempest. i did a ruff 5 min parse as SC/Ele with ACT to check how many times i cast each spell. i then took that number and figured out it's % of times used. then i linked that % to the % of spell power that each spell used. numbers looked like this..

5 min on boss dummy - Total # of attacks was 164. my DPS on this quick run down was 860 DPS so please consider this with my math. you may be getting more, or less. also, i did not include Static Discharge in due to it not hitting and the fact that SP/CDs are the only thing increasing this. i was looking at the crit effected spells in this. (and yes i know that SD is beast lol)
#71 43% of the hits were Lightning Field, uses 37% SP
#36 22% of the hits were Raging Storm, uses 69% SP
#22 13% of the hits were Ice Shear, uses 19% SP
#19 12% of the hits were Lightning Strike, uses 45% SP
#16 10% of the hits were Thunderbolt, uses 27% SP
!!! 41.66 % average use of spell power in SC/ELE ( a pretty healthy % of SP used imo)
and yes i'm sure i can clean this up a bit, thanks. used it for an outline of how many times i cast what per 5 min.

now given that spell power scales linear, you can do the math
26.32 per 1% crit
52.64 per 2% crit <-- use this amount for crit and sp calculations for clarity
52.64 x 41.66%
every 52.64 sp is 22 DPS (+21.93 dps)
crit does not scale linear though. so what you have to do is multiply the the Sustained DPS by the increase in crit, and with SC/ELE make the crit value .8 (80%) instead of .5 (50%)

so i start with the base 860 DPS, and add in either 52.64 sp, or 2% crit, and continue to check crits value with spell power. when you do this, you get numbers like this.
860 dps. 1000 spell power <-- - (is what i parsed at on the dummy, no math)
882 dps with 1052.64 spell power, and no change to crit
874 dps with 1000 spell power and 50 increase to crit

904 dps with 1105.28 sp
926 dps with 1158 sp no crit change
918 dps with 1105.28 sp and 2% more crit

992 dps with 1310.56 sp
1014 dps w/ 1363 sp no change to crit
1008 dps with 1310.56 sp and 2% increase to crit

1080 dps with 1526.12 sp
1102 dps with 1579 sp no change to crit
1097 dps with 1526.12 sp and 2% increase to crit

1300 dps with 2052.8 sp
1322 dps with 2105 sp
1321 dps with 2053.8 sp and 2% to crit

1344 dps with 2158 sp
1366 dps with 2210.64 sp
1365.5 dps with 2158 sp and 2% to crit ( so close )

1388 dps with 2263 sp <------- !!!! magic number !!!
1399 dps with 2289.32 sp (26.32 more spell power)
1399.1 dps with 2263 sp and 1% crit (again, 1% crit increase here)

SO, even with Tempest, SP is still worth more then crit until you get to ruffly 1388 dps sustained, even in the SC/ELE combo. AGAIN THOUGH.. this does not include Static Discharge which would make SP value a lot higher across the board.

also, i see a lot of people talking about how you need to hit 1100-1300 spell power for crit to have it's value increased. this is not the case by my numbers. spell power needed to hit would be 2263ish. not gonna happen anytime soon with the gear we have out, and tbh i doubt we will see it before a massive level increasing expansion.

so.. just to recap, these numbers were based around the SC/Ele build and Tempest on a 5 min boss dummy parse.

i don't think i know everything or any off the wall crap like that. i just was curious and wanted to try and get a little more clarity on sp vs crit including Tempest. if ANYONE has anything that would help me out, that would be great. if my numbers are off, or my logic isn't sound, PLEASE help me out. i don't want to be correct if i'm not, i just want better DPS.

not my math but.. yeah

[bluedot]

Do you have a link to the original thread?

[DeadlySight]

http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ulations/page2

Halfway down page 2 its brought to his attention that he's comparing 1 sc:1 sp, when comparing 2:1 like gear itemizes he concludes 2 Crit > 1 SP


His math is the reason why I don't take your 5:1 to be bible