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Thread: DoT's need some love

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default DoT's need some love

    You can nerf the hell out of Pyro in PvP if you want (still not viable in PvE anyhow)

    But seriously our Trion DoT's need some love.


    // An otherwise happy mage
    Last edited by Ahab; 04-14-2011 at 06:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Monarrch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahab View Post
    You can nerf the hell out of Pyro in PvP if you want (still not viable in PvE anyhow)

    But seriously our Trion DoT's need some love.


    // An otherwise happy mage
    I agree. Cleric dots, vex for example are more effective than warlock/Necro dots. I have thrown my dots on people in wfs just to see what kind of damage they do. Even with full lock with necrosis (5 dots in all) they only do minimal damage, an annoyance more than anything. I dotted up clerics, warriors and rogues and the damage is really unreasonably low. I have seen where they would maybe take 10% to 15% of the targets health and that's with no heals or dispels. In a perfect world I would like to see a 15% increase to dot damage to make them viable. Since most of my dots only tick for 80 or so, I don't thInk that would be unreasonable. Healing is sooooo strong in wfs, I really think it's needed, maybe 20% even.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser
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    Mages are doing just fine in the dps department, they do not need an increase in dot damage. They also have more dots and do not rely solely on 2 for the majority of their damage like an inq. You have to look at the big picture.

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    Rift Master bubulu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrower View Post
    Mages are doing just fine in the dps department, they do not need an increase in dot damage. They also have more dots and do not rely solely on 2 for the majority of their damage like an inq. You have to look at the big picture.
    A deep warlock should have strong DoTs. A 51 warlock simply is not viable. Why, because you lose so much dps from necro pet and warlock DoTs are too weak.

    Mage as a calling does good dps, but that doesn't mean warlock DoTs should be ignored. We have different souls a reason, so people can play different styles. A warlock and a stormcaller are completely different.

    To be honest with you, I would rather use 2 DoTs instead of having to manage 5 DoTs if their total damage is the same. Wouldn't you rather throw 1 single DoT if that DoT can do all the damage?

    Your last sentence defies basic logic. 2 big DoT >>>> 5 tiny DoTs. You waste 4 GCDs; you tend to make more mistakes in rotation if you have to keep 5 DoTs up.
    Last edited by bubulu; 04-14-2011 at 08:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpsmile View Post
    there is no way a mage could out dps a cleric in this game. sad to say but its true.
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    mage - the garbage man, taking out the trash.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubulu View Post
    A deep warlock should have strong DoTs. A 51 warlock simply is not viable. Why, because you lose so much dps from necro pet and warlock DoTs are too weak.

    Mage as a calling does good dps, but that doesn't mean warlock DoTs should be ignored. We have different souls a reason, so people can play different styles. A warlock and a stormcaller are completely different.

    To be honest with you, I would rather use 2 DoTs instead of having to manage 5 DoTs if their total damage is the same. Wouldn't you rather throw 1 single DoT if that DoT can do all the damage?

    Your last sentence defies basic logic. 2 big DoT >>>> 5 tiny DoTs. You waste 4 GCDs; you tend to make more mistakes in rotation if you have to keep 5 DoTs up.
    I don't totally disagree, but buffing warlock dots would have to be done very deep in the tree to make it stand alone. Necro/lock is already doing very well. The warlock tree is actually one of the better mage souls, but it is better as utility and secondary.

    I just said to look at the big picture. While inq puts up less dots, he then gets to spam a really, really crappy 1.5 second spell and the warlock weaving dots and his better nuke and charge abilities could pull ahead. It's not always as simple as which dot does more damage compared to another, that is all I was trying to say.

  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrower View Post
    Mages are doing just fine in the dps department, they do not need an increase in dot damage. They also have more dots and do not rely solely on 2 for the majority of their damage like an inq. You have to look at the big picture.
    Inquisitors is more of a support-soul than Warlock is. Clerics in general should have lower DMG than their mage-counterpart. Inquisitors got much more direct-dmg spells. In reality Warlocks only got 4 DoTs. The rest are channeling spells, altho they should still be affected by Neddra's Influence, granting DoTs (and channels?) a max 45% dmg increase. With Warlock Armor, that's an additional 10%. And Dark Power another 10%.
    Warlocks got very few direct-dmg spells. They got 2 (Void and Draining Bolt)

    Inquisitors got 3 DoTs to be fair... They get a 5 points talent that increases their two basic DoTs with 50% dmg increase... They got 4 direct-dmg spells.

    Warlocks still does less damage than Inquisitors? If so then Warlocks are UP compared to Inquisitors and should be changed.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrower View Post
    Mages are doing just fine in the dps department, they do not need an increase in dot damage. They also have more dots and do not rely solely on 2 for the majority of their damage like an inq. You have to look at the big picture.
    Mages are doing fine and I wont argue with you on that but this thread isnt about that it is about the fact that Warlocks are not doing fine, to be "top" dps in GSB you have to play Storm/Ele or Nec/Lock (and atleast in my guild the stormcaller allways comes out on top (boss fights included)

    I am not saying that Mages in general needs annother buff, some souls clearly need nerfs but our DoT's needs some lovin'

    I have certainly never seen a 51 lock for example (the 51 really needs a change too) or even a lock that has the 31 pointer (totaly worthless in PvE)
    Last edited by Ahab; 04-15-2011 at 04:25 AM.

  8. #8
    Champion Deistik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahab View Post

    I have certainly never seen a 51 lock for example (the 51 really needs a change too) or even a lock that has the 31 pointer (totaly worthless in PvE)
    The 51pt used to not have any cooldown, and I thought it was perfect that way. I take the 31pt in my chloro spec
    <Disturbance> @Vigil
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  9. #9
    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubulu View Post
    A deep warlock should have strong DoTs. A 51 warlock simply is not viable. Why, because you lose so much dps from necro pet and warlock DoTs are too weak.

    Mage as a calling does good dps, but that doesn't mean warlock DoTs should be ignored. We have different souls a reason, so people can play different styles. A warlock and a stormcaller are completely different.

    To be honest with you, I would rather use 2 DoTs instead of having to manage 5 DoTs if their total damage is the same. Wouldn't you rather throw 1 single DoT if that DoT can do all the damage?

    Your last sentence defies basic logic. 2 big DoT >>>> 5 tiny DoTs. You waste 4 GCDs; you tend to make more mistakes in rotation if you have to keep 5 DoTs up.
    I have to agree, even 51 points in the Warlock dots just feel kinda "meh". Having dots drain charge doesn't help either.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Necro/lock is the highest sustained single target mage dps. Pyro is worthless for leveling, worthless in raids. Pyro dd needs love, if anything.

  11. #11
    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipryde View Post
    Necro/lock is the highest sustained single target mage dps. Pyro is worthless for leveling, worthless in raids. Pyro dd needs love, if anything.
    Mostly because of the necro side of things, not the warlock side. This thread was about dots...
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipryde View Post
    Necro/lock is the highest sustained single target mage dps.
    Nah since patch Storm/Ele is highest both in AoE and in Single Target sustained damage atleast in proper raids like GSB (Nec/Lock is better in 5man single target)

    And even if I'm wrong (wich I offcourse might be) It is only because of the Necro specc, the Necro soul is fine and the pet does insane damage <3 but the Lock DoT's still cant keep up with other speccs (especially if you want to go deeper in Lock and not so deep in Nec)
    Last edited by Ahab; 04-15-2011 at 04:39 AM.

  13. #13
    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahab View Post
    Nah since patch Storm/Ele is highest both in AoE and in Single Target sustained damage atleast in proper raids like GSB (Nec/Lock is better in 5man single target)

    And even if I'm wrong (wich I offcourse might be) It is only because of the Necro specc, the Necro soul is fine and the pet does insane damage <3 but the Lock DoT's still cant keep up with other speccs (especially if you want to go deeper in Lock and not so deep in Nec)
    SC/ele wrecks shop. It's kind of amusing that most posters (myself included) were convinced that SC was total garbage 6 weeks ago. Now it's rapidly becomming FOTM.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

  14. #14
    Plane Touched FxyO's Avatar
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    Not sure why the 51 pt drains charge so fast. its only enough for like 3 void bolts... and why does it have a cooldown again?
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  15. #15
    Rift Disciple
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    i'm only 27 now but I disagree about DoT's not being effective, at least not now.

    Warlock does not seem to me about killing people strictly with DoT's. I realize that's the flavor of the class but the DoT's are used to apply pressure and create momentum. What almost always happens in my PvP figts is that early on my DoT's don't seem to be doing much. Then There is always a 'momentum switch' in every fight where My opponent has an "oh ****" moment and at that point my DoT's move from a minor annoyance to their creeping death. This happens quickly with rogues, and slowly with healers...but it always happens (well in a winning fight heh

    PvP'ing with warlock is part art in that aspect. You need to create the pressure then manuever to create that pendulum shift that throws the fight heavily into your favor.

    Now perhaps at 51 damage tails off, I can't say (obviously). This approach works extremely well now though and I will continue along this methodology until otherwise proven its wrong.

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