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Thread: How to fix pyros

  1. #1
    Champion of Telara
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    Default How to fix pyros

    Here are some facts:

    Fact- Pyro damage, even without a Ground spell, is very, very strong in PvP.
    Fact- Pyro survivability without a ground spell is not very strong.

    Sounds pretty balanced to me, so why did they need ground again? Not that pre-50 PvP means much, but i've been playing a Pyro pre-50 (IE: I don't have GoS) and with smart positioning I have no problems getting my damage out in fights. I suspect with a few tweaks we could make pyros worry about postioning like every other class.

    Ground of Strength: Removed
    New 44 Pyro ability: 30% reduced damage taken to self & chance to stun for 2 seconds on spellcasts. 20 second duration, 2 minute cooldown.

    CC immunity removed because a class with that kind of damage being immune to CC is ridiculous.

    Hooray fixed.
    Dancer/Yeah of Briarcliff

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Torok's Avatar
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    I would love that new skill instead of gos, let's hope
    Fremen
    dumbtard pyro bishotting you

  3. #3
    iol
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    Dispel GoS.

    I am not a hardcore pvp'er, neither are my guild mates. But we ran a few wf's last night together.

    Here are a few facts:

    I was never focused down. In 5 matches of codex/whitefall not once did i have more than two people on me. Of the times I was being targeted, not once did my cleric teammate have someone on him.

    Guildies and myself called out enemy pyro's and they were quickly dispelled and killed FIRST. I ran into numerous seas of red names with red wings, popped heat wave, and killed 5+ people. Should I be able to roflkill that many? Debateable. But the fact remains, I am a huge threat and I was left alone to do whatever I wanted.

    Everytime GoS was dispelled from me I died, the stuns and silences prevented another one from being dropped.

    Pyro's do a ton of damage but are not unstoppable. Spec right, coordinate your attacks and kill them.

    Having said all of that, I am still a proponent of shortening red wings to be a defensive buff instead of a running all over the place constantly refreshing it buff. Red wings needs to be fixed, then pyro whining will slow down.

    This is not an elitist post, its just you are proposing to fix something that I dont feel is the issue. And it already has a failsafe counter. Too many people with a pve mindset ignore their abilities to dispel.
    Last edited by iol; 04-05-2011 at 07:41 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by faction View Post
    Ground of Strength: Removed
    New 44 Pyro ability: 30% reduced damage taken to self & chance to stun for 2 seconds on spellcasts. 20 second duration, 2 minute cooldown.
    I fully endorse this post.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched Mahkra's Avatar
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    Remove the circle and pyro is done. The casts take to long and there are way to many stuns and ground closers for it to be an option. Add to it no collision detection and the whole class would just disappear. See many Stormcaller pvp specs? Yeah like that.

    Stun, stun dead
    Sap load up with bombs, boom, sap dead

    That gets old real fast. Pretty much what it's like with no stun mitigation.

  6. #6
    iol
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    Quote Originally Posted by faction View Post
    Here are some facts:

    Fact- Pyro survivability without a ground spell is not very strong.
    Whether I pvp a lot or a little makes no difference, you're proposing a fix to a mechanic that is 100% dispellable. You and I both know a pyro without that ground spell is a pushover. So your fix is to allow survivability on a 2 minute cooldown for 20 seconds. That is ridiculous.

    Trion needs to address the following and let the changes settle in before making a change the likes of which you suggest:

    Fix the Staff+Main Hand+Offhand all equipped at the same time bug.

    Adjust the red orb buff. Lots of different ways have been suggested.

    Then let those two things settle in for a week or two and i can almost promise you pyro's will be on level with other souls.
    Last edited by iol; 04-05-2011 at 08:23 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahkra View Post
    Remove the circle and pyro is done. The casts take to long and there are way to many stuns and ground closers for it to be an option. Add to it no collision detection and the whole class would just disappear.
    Or maybe they could just L2P/adapt, as pyros seem to love telling all the other classes to do? Or are they not capable of taking their own advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by iol View Post
    Whether I pvp a lot or a little makes no difference, you're proposing a fix to a mechanic that is 100% dispellable. You and I both know a pyro without that ground spell is a pushover. So your fix is to allow survivability on a 2 minute cooldown for 20 seconds. That is ridiculous.
    Pyros are meant to be squishy, the low survivability is the trade-off for having such high damage. They either lose GoS or lose the damage, with both they are OP.
    Last edited by Sanguis Mortuum; 04-05-2011 at 08:26 AM.

  8. #8
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    Stupid 5 minute edit limit...

    Pyros are like the inverse of what warriors were. Warrior had uber survivability and high damage, pyros have uber damage and, with GoS, high survivability. How is this balanced when clerics have uber survivability but poor damage and rogues have either poor survivability and below-average damage, or if using rift stalker good survivability but even worse damage?
    Last edited by Sanguis Mortuum; 04-05-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  9. #9
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    THe best way to fix Pyros, is to buff Rogues. A well balanced Rogue would be the perfect counter to a Pyro.
    I am a lawyer in real life, but I try to roleplay an honorable character ;)

  10. #10
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    Remove immunity? I am fine with that. Make sure its removed from all classes.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad1959 View Post
    THe best way to fix Pyros, is to buff Rogues. A well balanced Rogue would be the perfect counter to a Pyro.
    Your joking right? If a pyro has no heals...a rogue will slaughter him.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by iol View Post
    Whether I pvp a lot or a little makes no difference, you're proposing a fix to a mechanic that is 100% dispellable. You and I both know a pyro without that ground spell is a pushover. So your fix is to allow survivability on a 2 minute cooldown for 20 seconds. That is ridiculous.

    Trion needs to address the following and let the changes settle in before making a change the likes of which you suggest:

    Fix the Staff+Main Hand+Offhand all equipped at the same time bug.

    Adjust the red orb buff. Lots of different ways have been suggested.

    Then let those two things settle in for a week or two and i can almost promise you pyro's will be on level with other souls.
    You do NOT PvP. DO NOT POST. In Warfronts players have 2-3 rows of buffs AND every dispel HAS A COOLDOWN. Not to mention a pyro can RECAST HIS GROUND AS IT HAS NO COOLDOWN.

    Do. Not. Post. PvEr.
    Dancer/Yeah of Briarcliff

  13. #13
    Telaran Adam J's Avatar
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    fixing los wouldn't hurt either, I know why it went in to prevent the run through but seriously it was a bandaid fix. Patriot missile fireballs wizzing around houses and through them is pretty fail.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahkra View Post
    Remove the circle and pyro is done. The casts take to long and there are way to many stuns and ground closers for it to be an option. Add to it no collision detection and the whole class would just disappear. See many Stormcaller pvp specs? Yeah like that.

    Stun, stun dead
    Sap load up with bombs, boom, sap dead

    That gets old real fast. Pretty much what it's like with no stun mitigation.
    See mage 20m away. See him casting GoS, too far too interrupt, ****. Try to run to LOS him, suddenly stunned. Boom 2k damage. Stunned again. Boom 1k 1k 1k 1k 1k 500 700 1k 1k 2k 700 200 200 200 200 200 700 1k 1k 1k 1k 1k 2k. Assuming you have a healer than can keep you up for that. But 99.999999999999999999% of the time, dead while stunned.

    Yep, GoS is perfectly fine and it's protecting you. But really it makes us completely useless in a stunned state while you set up a HUGE burst damage that is incredibly hard to heal through. I have to pop covenant, orbs, and blow cooldowns to spike heal people through just A SINGLE PYRO. They're literally bursting harder than raid bosses. Broken ******** is massively broken.

    You should be vulnerable to CC just like the rest of us are.

    Quote Originally Posted by azryeal View Post
    Your joking right? If a pyro has no heals...a rogue will slaughter him.
    A rogue? Really?

    You must NEVER pvp. Rogues can't kill anyone, heals or no heals. Nobody. Not without getting a sap-stealth-stun and tons of backshots in. Good luck doing that to a GoS pyro. **** PvP discussion thread, noob.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad1959 View Post
    THe best way to fix Pyros, is to buff Rogues. A well balanced Rogue would be the perfect counter to a Pyro.
    They already were. Tick tick tick.. BOOM.. dead pyro. But "oh noes, sabs so OP!" Rogues get nerfed and their primary targets now have nobody that can deal with them while they dish out 2k+ hits over and over and over and over and over. Lovely.
    Last edited by jMerliN; 04-05-2011 at 09:19 AM.

  15. #15
    iol
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    Do you just attack anyone who has a differing opinion from you?

    You say GoS is the issue and want it dropped to 20 duration on a 2 minute cooldown.

    I say in 20 seconds with the red wings, heat wave and a pocket healer and no GoS I will kill you and your WHOLE team if I am ignored. And then I will die and I will be back in about 2 minutes and do it again (heat wave will be back up too). GoS is not the issue. You just want to be able to 2 shot every mage you come across like you did when you levelled on your pvp server. Grow up, post constructively and lets discuss what is truely broken.
    Last edited by iol; 04-05-2011 at 09:38 AM.

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