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Thread: Pyros are overpowered - other mage souls need a love

  1. #1
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    Default Pyros are overpowered - other mage souls need a love

    First of all, I'm a mage, fully equipped with T2 / PvP rank 3 stuff. And I sometimes play the pyro soul.


    The pyro soul is overpowered for the following reasons:
    - With the add damage buff available in a warfront, a pyro can one-shoot people with Fulmination.
    - With the add damage buff available in a warfront, a pyro can two-shoot most people with a couple of fireballs, in two seconds.
    - The ground of strength gives the pyro too many advantages (immunity to crowd control effect, stun lock, 30% damage reduction when hit)

    When you pop in a 10v10 warfront, and you have 2 pyros in your team, the warfront turns into an ugly butchery. Is it fun? No. It's no fun for the pyros, and it's no fun for anybody else.


    This being said, only a very few mage souls are viable in PvP:
    - the well known 44/17/5 or 44/18/4 Warlock/Chloro/Archmage
    - may be a Necro/Dominator/Archmage build
    - may be a Stormcaller/Warlock/Archmage build

    But these specs are far from being overpowered. On the contrary, they need a love, especially the dominator soul, which suffers from toooo long CDs and lack of DPS, the stormcaller soul, which suffers from survivability as most of its crowd control spells, which were supposed to protect the mage, are broken almost immediately, and finally the archmage soul, which is really unbalanced.


    This is the reason why I suggest that the developers adjust the mage as follow:
    - nerf the pyro soul, as it is by far much too overpowered
    - give a little love to other mage souls, as they need it
    (The mage armor increase was good, though).


    Please, if you react, be constructive.

  2. #2
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    By the way, the dominator soul has way too many spells. One need a third hand to play a dominator. For fun, just try a stormcaller / dominator build, and you will see what I mean.

    Suggestion:
    Remove some dominator spells, and improve some other dominator spells.
    Well, rebuild the dominator soul, in fact

  3. #3
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    Buff dots and I'll be a happy warlock.


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    Rift Chaser MrGrimm999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trimsic View Post
    First of all, I'm a mage, fully equipped with T2 / PvP rank 3 stuff. And I sometimes play the pyro soul.


    The pyro soul is overpowered for the following reasons:
    - With the add damage buff available in a warfront, a pyro can one-shoot people with Fulmination.
    - With the add damage buff available in a warfront, a pyro can two-shoot most people with a couple of fireballs, in two seconds.
    - The ground of strength gives the pyro too many advantages (immunity to crowd control effect, stun lock, 30% damage reduction when hit)
    Stopped reading after the sentence, xxx is overpowered - With the add damage buff available in a warfront.

    You cannot balance a pvp class based on a double spellpower buff in an enclosed pvp enviornment, how can you not realise this.

    Thats like saying:

    "clerics can heal for too much because if you give them double their current spellpower their aoe heals heal the whole group to full instantly."

    Stop crying/whining about 1 soul when they have a double spellpower buff. I have news for you, nothing is going to be balanced when they have double their intended offensive stats blowing a 2 min cd and a 45 second cd, nothing. I am so sick and tired of people complaining about this. I just hope Trion doesn't listen to this crap and nerf the soul, just nerf the friggin' wf buff.

    Oh yea, and buff dots, they are pathetic in pvp.
    Last edited by MrGrimm999; 04-04-2011 at 10:58 AM.

  5. #5
    Champion Charnyr's Avatar
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    Pyro is weaker dps in dungeons than necro/ lock. PvP is a fun past time on occasion. Real PvP'ers play FPS/ RTS games for the PvP fix, not mmorpgs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charnyr View Post
    Real PvP'ers play FPS/ RTS games for the PvP fix, not mmorpgs.
    Sick and tired of FPS.. I guess that makes me a fake PvP'er.


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    Rift Master GriffonHawke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGrimm999 View Post
    Stopped reading after the sentence, xxx is overpowered - With the add damage buff available in a warfront.

    You cannot balance a pvp class based on a double spellpower buff in an enclosed pvp enviornment, how can you not realise this.

    Thats like saying:

    "clerics can heal for too much because if you give them double their current spellpower their aoe heals heal the whole group to full instantly."

    Stop crying/whining about 1 soul when they have a double spellpower buff. I have news for you, nothing is going to be balanced when they have double their intended offensive stats blowing a 2 min cd and a 45 second cd, nothing. I am so sick and tired of people complaining about this. I just hope Trion doesn't listen to this crap and nerf the soul, just nerf the friggin' wf buff.

    Oh yea, and buff dots, they are pathetic in pvp.
    I like how you actually believe that. "it doesn't matter if pyro can kill people in one or two hits in a warfront because that is just a warfront." Thats as smart as the people that think levels 1-49 dont matter as long as the class is balanced at level 50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GriffonHawke View Post
    I like how you actually believe that. "it doesn't matter if pyro can kill people in one or two hits in a warfront because that is just a warfront." Thats as smart as the people that think levels 1-49 dont matter as long as the class is balanced at level 50.
    That's because it doesn't matter. Using CD's a WF buff and building a soul designed to kill people you kill a few people in 2-4 hits (I've never 1 shot anyone) given it may feel like 1 shot but I'e never had 1 spell do over 6k dmg.

    Sometimes a class is going to hit you so hard and so fast you can't react... that's part of the game. You get 1 shot by a sniper rifle to the head in FPS... so what's the problem with it here?

    Sometimes you get 1 shot, sometimes youre the 1 shoter.

  9. #9
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    Again, the problem is that WF buff and SP scaling with the buff. A T2/Rank 3 Pyro with WF buff will see godmode more often than a T1/Rank 0 Pyro would ever see. Don't balance the classes that way. Try balancing them without the buff, without the prestige and see if they add up.

    If the problem is the WF buff, fix the buff.

    If the problem is with SP scaling then fix the SP scaling.

    Don't nerf a Pyro just because the high end pyros with OP buffs are having a easy time.

    The problem isn't even GOS. If you look at some of these videos, the Pyros with the WF buff aren't even using GOS that much.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser MrGrimm999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriffonHawke View Post
    I like how you actually believe that. "it doesn't matter if pyro can kill people in one or two hits in a warfront because that is just a warfront." Thats as smart as the people that think levels 1-49 dont matter as long as the class is balanced at level 50.
    Two shotting people in a wf in one thing, Two shotting people with a double spellpower buff blowing a 2 min cd and a 45 sec cd is something completely different. Stop taking my words out of context.

    If all 51 point pyros could two shot anyone self buffed, then we would have a major problem, but that isn't the case here. These 7-8k crits come from mages who are archon buffed, wf double spellpower buffed, T2/GS geared, and the enemy is debuffed from the 50% damage sheep.

    Trying to say its not fair that you got 1-2 shotted with all that going on is wrong. I would say the opposite, if you had all that stuff, and you couldn't 1-2 shot someone speccing for burst, focusing on crits, and blowing 2 cds, then something is wrong with the survivability in the game.

    As its been said many many times, the problem isn't the spec, the problem is the wf buff. It's scaling with lots of SP too much, this needs to be reworked.
    Last edited by MrGrimm999; 04-04-2011 at 12:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGrimm999 View Post
    Two shotting people in a wf in one thing, Two shotting people with a double spellpower buff blowing a 2 min cd and a 45 sec cd is something completely different. Stop taking my words out of context.

    If all 51 point pyros could two shot anyone self buffed, then we would have a major problem, but that isn't the case here. These 7-8k crits come from mages who are archon buffed, wf double spellpower buffed, T2/GS geared, and the enemy is debuffed from the 50% damage sheep.

    Trying to say its not fair that you got 1-2 shotted with all that going on is wrong. I would say the opposite, if you had all that stuff, and you couldn't 1-2 shot someone speccing for burst, focusing on crits, and blowing 2 cds, then something is wrong with the survivability in the game.
    Well the big thing is that everyones HP pool is tiny and pyro is the highest burst mage spec even if it isn't the highest DPS. You only need to deal about 3500 damage to bring someone who isn't a tank or lock or chloro into inferno range. PvP gear needs more endurance and valor needs to not suck. Till then, I honestly think they need to look at archmage tree. The damage bonuses were clearly not intended for the damage we're capable of.
    Last edited by Stimuz; 04-04-2011 at 12:38 PM.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    pvp who cares

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Braunfelt's Avatar
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    play what you enjoy is my thoughts. As to pyro being op compared to others I disagree. sre my Pyro can put down alot of death in single, but my SC can put out alot more in WF. As to dungeons its not always about DPS. I prefer chlorolock or chloroarc, if DPs than pyrolock, the neclock to me is not as powerful but more sustained vs burst.

    Elementalist has its place too but more for solo pve and some pvp. The rest I have not played yet.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Ashgan's Avatar
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    This being said, only a very few mage souls are viable in PvP:
    - the well known 44/17/5 or 44/18/4 Warlock/Chloro/Archmage
    - may be a Necro/Dominator/Archmage build
    - may be a Stormcaller/Warlock/Archmage build
    Dominator\Pyromancer\Elementalist
    (Casttime reduction, 10 seconds silence, instant transmog, damage on opener in the dominator tree, 5% crit + shield in the elementalist, rest - pyro)

    Dominator\Pyromancer\Archmage
    (Different variations, dominator tree stays the same, archmage may vary. Usually its +30% crit power, so we lose heatwave actually.

    Dominator\Pyromancer
    (Support\dps soul with both chastise and heatwave. Very good dps with nice CC, especially on melees. Unbreakable bonds + storm shackle + death's edict can make melees cry. Or the 5 seconds stun variation with less points in pyro. With this thing you have silence (up to 10 seconds) disarm (4 seconds), 3 stuns (3, 5, 5 seconds), 2 roots, 2 slows, healing reduction, etc etc. Also you still have some damage gained through the dominator tree with fire spells. Enough to make anyone cry.

    Warlock\Chloromancer
    COME AT ME BRO

    Warlock\Necromancer
    Classical leveling build, does fine in pvp too.

    Warlock\Necromancer\Archmage
    You want to go defencive or offencive archmage tree, whatever you like.

    (surprise) Full Warlock
    Yeah +75% damage on a 1 minute cooldown. You can bake it into pyromancer-style transmog build, take the red orb and hear the whines about warlocks being OP.


    There are shltloads of working builds, the only thing that's wrong with pyro is GoS, since mage must be squishy. If you'll "balance" their damage for warfronts, it will become underpowered without an orb.

    But these specs are far from being overpowered. On the contrary, they need a love, especially the dominator soul, which suffers from toooo long CDs and lack of DPS, the stormcaller soul, which suffers from survivability as most of its crowd control spells, which were supposed to protect the mage, are broken almost immediately, and finally the archmage soul, which is really unbalanced.
    Have you tried to play a lock\chloro or lock\chloro\archmage build? Tell me it's not overpowered. You can make it into immortal machine. 8k hps, gazillion heals and saves. Decent damage. Sure it most likely won't kill good clerics, but this thing is immortal, you need to have ~4 people beating on you so they will have a chance to take you down.

    Cba typing, going to sleep.
    We don't die, we go to hell and regroup.

    Pyromancer\Dominator

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashgan View Post
    Have you tried to play a lock\chloro or lock\chloro\archmage build? Tell me it's not overpowered. You can make it into immortal machine. 8k hps, gazillion heals and saves. Decent damage. Sure it most likely won't kill good clerics, but this thing is immortal, you need to have ~4 people beating on you so they will have a chance to take you down.
    Nothing to see here folks.







    Shhhhhh!!!!!! The Pyro QQ train is doing a good job of distracting attention from what's actually crazy awesome

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