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Thread: Wf Red Wings buff

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser MrGrimm999's Avatar
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    Default Wf Red Wings buff

    This isn't a GoS thread, that is an entirely different issue, so before you get your flamethrowers out and start another GoS whine, go somewhere else.

    I am really tired of all the players complain about getting 2 shotted from some 4k+ shot when they blame it on all pyros in general. The truth is, its this buff that is causing all their frustration and most of them are so bad they don't even know that the mage has it. Yes yes I know the mages have huge red wings, but some people just have tunnel vision via healing, dps, or revenge.

    This buff is the root of most peoples complaints, even if they don't realise it. It is pretty easy to repeatedly get this buff once you have it because you can guard it if you need. Also, you have a good idea of when it will respawn because you know how much time has expired since it wore off on you. Rework this buff and a lot of pyro complaints will go away. (Before you even post, don't even think about mentioning GoS, I don't want this thread to be hijacked into another GoS complaint thread, there are already 100 of them out there).

    Balancing pyros is so difficult to do because without this buff and heat wave, pyros damage is only good when they get lucky procs, lucky crits or when fulminate is up. This makes it so tricky to balance. If you nerf the burst damage when they have this buff or when heat wave is up, then they will be extremely weak when the cds are down as it would be trivial to heal through.

    What they probably should do is buff some of the other souls (*cough dot damage cough*) and rework the red wings buff and you will see a lot of pyros switching to other souls as they can't lawl 4k fulminate crit anymore. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy pyros right now, but I really would like to be more viable as a necro/lock, or sc/ele, or whatever. I feel that a big part of this pigeonholeing comes from red wing buff + heat wave. (and GoS, but once again, please don't post on that issue)
    Last edited by MrGrimm999; 04-04-2011 at 06:17 AM.

  2. #2
    iol
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    This weekend was the first weekend I really played with pyro in warfronts. I did Whitefall steppes only because it was a guild quest. Last week I watched the video of the pyro Mage laying waste in codex so thought I'd give it a shot.

    The buff is ridiculous. I don't know how it combos with other classes cooldowbs but it got to the point where I'd wait for the buff. Run out looking for groups of red names and annihilate them. GoS didn't matter. No one got close enough. There was zero skill involved. Just had to turn on smart targeting and spam a few buttons. More times than not I would end up in the enemy base with my buffs still up and able to refresh it.

    After a few matches guildies were crying for nerfs and we started talking about fixes. The buff just needs to be shorter or only usable by attacking teams. Make it another thing to defend. No reason I should be able to pick it up. Ride out to fight. Kill 5-8 people and ride to the otherside and refresh it.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Vihar's Avatar
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    /SIGN

    Powerups are not skill or build related.

    Dump them.
    Otherwise known as Morganlefae

  4. #4
    Plane Touched
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    Just take the red wings out of the game. Solved.
    Most forum users are neckbeards with the uncanny ability to over dramatize anything in a way that would make a crooked politican blush.

  5. #5
    Sword of Telara
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    Clip the red wings!

  6. #6
    Plane Walker The Grixxitt's Avatar
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    Its not just the damn wings though, its the way all the +damage bonuses are added together.

    I can easily get more damage than the wings buff adds with all the other crap in game for + damage and +crit damage, and that is what needs to be fixed.

    i.e. fix Trion's "special" math

    Looking for a line in a patch upcoming that will read "fixed the way damage bonuses are added. Now Only the highest damage bonus will be in effect for either raw damage or crit".

    Until that happens we can all look forward to the daily "OMFG I just got 1shotted" threads
    This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
    My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Whilst the buff makes the damge even stupider its not the buff causing all the problems. My Mage can crit a target with 0 valour(or w/e the base valour amount is) for in excess of 5k on a Cinder Burst WITHOUT the stupid warfront buff.

    The burst damage currently is brokenly high and it isn't necessarily the fault of the warfront buff.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Grixxitt View Post

    I can easily get more damage than the wings buff adds with all the other crap in game for + damage and +crit damage, and that is what needs to be fixed.

    No you can't? It's a flat 100% bonus to damage not a +dmg/crit number. The wings buff DOUBLES your AP/SP no matter how high it is, how exactly can you surpass something that doubles what it's doubling.....
    Last edited by Scase; 04-04-2011 at 07:48 AM.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    Boosts the dps bonus, but not the base damage or weapon damage bonuses.

    So callings that rely heavier on AP/SP will probably get the most benefit.

    Which might be casters. just saying, might be worth changing it to a much lower flat % increase. Out of fairness, after all.

  10. #10
    Champion Fyrestorme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGrimm999 View Post
    This isn't a GoS thread, that is an entirely different issue, so before you get your flamethrowers out and start another GoS whine, go somewhere else.

    I am really tired of all the players complain about getting 2 shotted from some 4k+ shot when they blame it on all pyros in general. The truth is, its this buff that is causing all their frustration and most of them are so bad they don't even know that the mage has it. Yes yes I know the mages have huge red wings, but some people just have tunnel vision via healing, dps, or revenge.

    This buff is the root of most peoples complaints, even if they don't realise it. It is pretty easy to repeatedly get this buff once you have it because you can guard it if you need. Also, you have a good idea of when it will respawn because you know how much time has expired since it wore off on you. Rework this buff and a lot of pyro complaints will go away. (Before you even post, don't even think about mentioning GoS, I don't want this thread to be hijacked into another GoS complaint thread, there are already 100 of them out there).

    Balancing pyros is so difficult to do because without this buff and heat wave, pyros damage is only good when they get lucky procs, lucky crits or when fulminate is up. This makes it so tricky to balance. If you nerf the burst damage when they have this buff or when heat wave is up, then they will be extremely weak when the cds are down as it would be trivial to heal through.

    What they probably should do is buff some of the other souls (*cough dot damage cough*) and rework the red wings buff and you will see a lot of pyros switching to other souls as they can't lawl 4k fulminate crit anymore. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy pyros right now, but I really would like to be more viable as a necro/lock, or sc/ele, or whatever. I feel that a big part of this pigeonholeing comes from red wing buff + heat wave. (and GoS, but once again, please don't post on that issue)
    or maybe it's the +105.6% crit bonus dmg that comes purely from mage buffs, and yields 7k crits that ppl are complaining about.
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker The Grixxitt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scase View Post
    No you can't? It's a flat 100% bonus to damage not a +dmg/crit number. The wings buff DOUBLES your AP/SP no matter how high it is, how exactly can you surpass something that doubles what it's doubling.....

    It provides a bonus that STACKS with all the other crap in this game.
    Yes, it needs to go, but they need to change the way all the dmg bonuses stack or it won't even matter.
    End result will be the same one shot crits and forum QQ
    This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
    My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrestorme View Post
    or maybe it's the +105.6% crit bonus dmg that comes purely from mage buffs, and yields 7k crits that ppl are complaining about.
    What are you talking about ? The best a 51 pyro can do is +30% crit dmg from AM. No one is getting 7k crits without red wings.

    Also, take the red wings buff out of the game already.
    Last edited by Hermispew; 04-04-2011 at 09:21 AM.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    Why take the buff out? Why not just make it spawn less. I enjoy the buff (no I do not play a pyro).

    I've never been hit by a pyro mage at 7k. IDK how that's possible. I've been critted for 3 - 4K (without wings) and had 2 follow 1k - 2K crits from fireball.

    I think burst killing from any class (where you die in less than so many seconds) is ******ed.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Grixxitt View Post
    It provides a bonus that STACKS with all the other crap in this game.
    Yes, it needs to go, but they need to change the way all the dmg bonuses stack or it won't even matter.
    End result will be the same one shot crits and forum QQ
    The math in this game is effed up period, dmg mitigation, dmg bonuses etc. With the math fixed then the balancing can begin, until then its just a series of nerfs.

  15. #15
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    wings + Heat Wave = total godmode.

    I would rather see it give extra +100% HP than +100% spellpower.

    /signed for getting rid of the orb once and for all.


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