+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 31 to 44 of 44

Thread: When did mages suddenly become OP?

  1. #31
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    18

    Default

    thanks to noth replies to my question

  2. #32
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    288

    Default

    They are not op...its just in WF's pre 50 people are bad at countering them. I have a rank 3 rogue and now a 26 pyro...

    Get on the mage its over. If you are dumb enough to let me spam fireball/ fire blast over and over thats your bad.

    I could do just as much damage in my necro/cloro/pyro spec. I use pyro/ archmage for pvp.

    Its the stupids that make it look OP.

  3. #33
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyReaver View Post
    Still as a warrior if 3 players open up me I'm not taking out any. I'm just going to die.
    Unless the mages heavily overgear them, he wont either. They should just make GoS a 15 sec duration and have a few min cds, but allow pyro to move with it.

  4. #34
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercykiller101 View Post
    Mages still need help if you ask me. Some souls still aren't viable. As for GoS, reduce damage mitigation to 10%, remove Stun procs completely or to 5%, and reduce CC immunity to 30% or lower. Fulminate I'm against nerfing, it's incredibly useful for PvE, but for PvP I agree it's overkill.
    Your suggested nerfs to GoS will make it unwanted... The reason CC immunity is there is to prevent interruptions with their long cast-times on Cinder and Fireball(Primary skills along with Fulminate, Flame bolt and Inferno).
    For not just being a mechanic to actually use your primary skills it was added mitigation to prevent mages to drop like flies when hit by a warrior or rogue (after the armor buff it might be too much to still have when combined with other mitigation-mechanics).
    The stun-proc was to make it offensively useful. IMO Trion can remove the stun proc without much concern from my side. With diminishing returns it is already nerfed and might as well just go to keep some of the rest.

    A change might be to make mages immune to interruptions used in silence and stuns. A direct interruption-spell like VK's would still apply so it can actually counter Pyro.
    - To those saying Archmage's "Double Tap" makes any attempt to counter useless - well the mage just wasted 5 points to exactly counter YOUR attempt. You can't put reason why you should have a 100% chance to interrupt and remove the primary force for a mage.
    Furthermore the stun-procs could be removed from GoS and finally the damage mitigation reduced to 20%.
    This will make already casting spells able to finish (unless interrupted by a direct interruption spell) and the effect will last out till after (a 8 secs silence will keep duration and prevent new spells from being cast after the already channeling cast is finished)
    The stun might be removed or tweaked.
    The damage mitigation will get reduced slightly.

    What I really hate when discussing this is what seems as warrior's endless rage and absurd suggestions like yours Mercy...
    If GoS only had 10% damage reduction and 30% less CC duration it would be utterly USELESS to root yourself within. Please think about the players who might want to use it afterwards, will it be worth it at all?

    But the largest problem I see in PvP (reason for all the QQ about nerfs) is the Red Wings. If that was removed that single Pyro (or maybe two) will not be roflstomping single-targets in a 5-secs basic over 15 secs (duration of heatwave).

  5. #35
    Rift Disciple Tikay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    150

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzefick View Post
    Furthermore the stun-procs could be removed from GoS and finally the damage mitigation reduced to 20%.
    They should just change the way dmg reduction calculation works.

    Instead of what they do now
    Dmg x (1-(dmg reduction1%+dmg reduction2%+dmg reduction3%+....)) = DmgTaken
    Example of 75% (all counted together)
    1000dmg x (1-(0.30+0.20+0.15+0.10))= 1000 x 0.25 = 250 DmgTaken

    They should do
    Dmg x (1-dmg reduction1%) x (1-dmg reduction2%) x (1-dmg reduction3%) x .... ) = DmgTaken
    Example of 75% (all counted together)
    1000 x (1-0.3) x (1-0.2) x (1-0.15) x (1-0.10) = 1000 x 0.7 x 0.8 x 0.85 x 0.90 = 428,4 -> 428 DmgTaken
    So gos + armor (just taking 20% as example) + steelweave + 10% ele used together is an effective ~58.2% dmg reduction.

    (excluded the armor penetration and valor factors just to show what I mean)

    Like this none can get even close to 100% dmg reduction.
    Just to show, detaunt + gos + armor + steelweave + 10% ele = total of 125% counted together:
    1000 x (1-0.5) x (1-0.3) x (1-0.2) x (1-0.15) x (1-0.10) = 1000 x 0.5 x 0.7 x 0.8 x 0.85 x 0.90 = 214,2 -> 214 DmgTaken
    So the "125%" dmg reduction would only reduce the dmg taken by ~78.6%

    No matter how high you are able to pull your dmg reduction, you'll always get dmg'd (unless usage of a skill that would give 100% dmg reduction ^^) .

    Ofcourse same calculation would happen with rogue/warrior/cleric.
    And this calc should be purely for pvp and not pve, or else tanks with will see quite a raise in dmg taken.
    Tikay lvl 50 mage - Fontana lvl 50 rogue

  6. #36
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    48

    Default

    However the multiplicative mechanic will make multiple instances unwanted. Hence all the small boosts you get as a mage or w/e calling will be less worth (in the end you could buff these to make it worth it, I hope you get my overall meaning) instead of a single instance that just affects directly.

    Imagine physical damage (This is an example purely)

    Warrior: Armor grants 50% Phys reduction + PvP soul granting further 10% =
    1 - 1 * 50% = 0,5
    0,5 - 0,5 * 10% = 0,45
    Which is 45% damage taken and 55% phys dmg redux
    Current reduction: 60%
    Loss to multiplicative: 5%

    Mage: Armor grants 30% Phys redux + PvP soul granting 15% + GoS granting 20%(if we assume it will get nerfed to this state, which I do) =
    1 - 1 * 30% = 0,7
    0,7 - 0,7 * 15% = 0,595
    0,595 - 0,595 * 20% = 0,476
    Which is 47,6 % damage taken and 52,4% phys dmg redux
    Current reduction: 65%
    Loss to multiplicative: 12,6%

    That's nearby the bonus you get from Archmage or the bonus you get from Ele.

    Hmm I notice we use different formulas for multiplicative addition. I count in layers for the new amount of damage instead of taking the total damage and reduce by each value at each instance. I guess your version is the easiest to do math with and to implement. Can't remember where I got this layer-idea from but I've seen it at other games.

    You just have to consider this when going from additive mechanic to multiplicative. More instances = less effect.

  7. #37
    Rift Disciple Dharknite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    138

    Default

    Sadly, it seems like a lot of people are throwing the around the OP word when it comes to mages when mages are not in fact op. I killed a melee cleric that tried to get the jump on me and got called OP Mage. My build is 46 Elem/ 15 Arch/0 Pyro.

    Also I dont see nearly as many pyro mages as as the forums seem to the claim there is.

  8. #38
    Rift Disciple Comunique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Untouch View Post
    How come mages are suddenly OP?
    Explain.
    Mages were always good in certain souls. People just refused to test anything instead waiting till someone found the good spec and showed them how to play.

    Also, mages scale better with gear than other classes.

  9. #39
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    647

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Corian View Post
    Mages aren't OP. If anything as a calling they're still very slightly underpowered.

    It's ground of strength that's OP.
    I don't really even consider it that OP'd, except in comparison to other mage talents. Stun, immune to CC, huge damage reduction and fast cast time from one ability? You'd have to spec like 20 points into other trees to get that kind of utility. It's like if Shadow Life had a 30 second cooldown and made you immune to snares and silence.

    That said...it doesn't work well with the fire play style. It was obviously designed as a mobile, fast class...then there is one ability in it that literally turns it into a turret.

  10. #40
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Untouch View Post
    Where's all this whining coming from?
    All that was added to mage with 1.1 was the armour, which wasn't even much, really they nerfed mages more than they buffed them.

    How come mages are suddenly OP?
    Explain.
    Pyros were always OP. Certain other builds became "OP" when warriors stopped 2 shotting them.

  11. #41
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Comunique View Post

    Also, mages scale better with gear than other classes.
    LOL I'm sorry?

    It's been proven mages scale WORSE than all other classes as our SP coefficient is way messed up.

  12. #42
    Rift Disciple Comunique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scase View Post
    LOL I'm sorry?

    It's been proven mages scale WORSE than all other classes as our SP coefficient is way messed up.
    1:1 for SP is messed up?

    What's messed up is picking up spell crit gear and expecting it to work like SP gear. No different than how warriors or rogues work with physical crit and attack power.

    Also, their gear doesn't have the same affect them as ours. Everything they do is basically based on the weapon speed and top end damage. Just sayin'

  13. #43
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Comunique View Post
    1:1 for SP is messed up?

    What's messed up is picking up spell crit gear and expecting it to work like SP gear. No different than how warriors or rogues work with physical crit and attack power.

    Also, their gear doesn't have the same affect them as ours. Everything they do is basically based on the weapon speed and top end damage. Just sayin'
    Ok so they need to get a slow/high dmg weapon and we need to stack SP on ALL items how is that scaling the same?


    1SP adds .2dps, what exactly is your 1:1 ratio referring to. Not to mention you're basically saying all the stats on their gear doesn't affect their dps at all, their stats work the same way as ours they just use different stats for it. Int/wis : Str/Dex.

  14. #44
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Comunique View Post
    1:1 for SP is messed up?

    What's messed up is picking up spell crit gear and expecting it to work like SP gear. No different than how warriors or rogues work with physical crit and attack power.
    Yeah, we do scale extremely well for most specs, but I can't think of anything that is 1:1.

    Also, their gear doesn't have the same affect them as ours. Everything they do is basically based on the weapon speed and top end damage. Just sayin'
    Actually, thats wrong, only weapon listed DPS (like 13 DPS not 20-30 damage ect) matters. They may have went a little overboard when they normalized it in beta. You can test this if you want.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts