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Thread: We MUST fight Mage propaganda.

  1. #1
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    Default We MUST fight Mage propaganda.

    Warrior: "My class is awful. I die in one hit, do no damage, have poor self-healing, and my CCs are nonexistant. Trion, fix this!"

    Mage: "RIFT isn't like WoW, noob. Trion just copied WoW's formula, where Mages fill the same role as best damage, best crowd control and best survivability. Mages are on top where they should be, despite being dress wearing girls. Deal with it."

    This bull**** is rapidly becoming the standard response to any complaint Warriors may have. The danger is, it's an appealing pitch. It trashes WoW, props up Trion, emasculates Warrior players (more than the current design already has) and validates waving a 1-Handed phallic symbol and a book around like a drunk cross-dresser playing 'Harry Potter' with his bro in the bathroom.

    Let's review the common propaganda Mages spread and how to respond to it:

    Warriors just want an IWIN button.


    How about just a MAYBEWIN button? Oh, and Inferno/GoS, 'nuff said.

    Warriors need to LoS the mage. Adapt or die.

    Warriors can't LoS. Riftblades now have cooldowns on all their ranged abilities. They cannot deal damage at all if they are trying to LoS the mage. If they don't try, however, they get 1 shotted by a Pyro.

    Warriors have more gap closers than anyone else.

    The most effective gap closer in the game is killing someone, and Mages can do it in 1 GCDs reliably without breaking a sweat. It doesn't matter if the Warrior closed the gap or not... homie's dead yo. The second most effective gap closer is charge, but it doesn't matter since mages no longer take damage. The third most effective is Void Knight Rift Summon, but it doesn't work on us because we're too cool for it, standin' in our circle. And even if it did... we're too cool for cooldowns.

    You can't rush into melee. Stay behind your Mages or make friends with a Pyro who can protect you.

    First, only truly awful players rush into melee and should be thrown out of the sample. Warriors should never be in melee afterall? Second, like it matters where you stand - mage can pick you out of the crowd and blow you up in 1 GCD. Third, by this statement, you're freely admitting that PvP hinges entirely on Mages. Any rational individual should recognize a fundamental problem with balance there.

    You can't just stand still in PvP like you could in WoW.

    YES WE CAN. GO **** YOURSELF. Oooooohhhh aaaaaah noooo...

    I just want my Ground oh...... STRENGTH!

    But mages get to Crit with Fulminate for 6-7k. Isn't that a little out of whack?

    Go cry on the forums about it, Warrior.

    lol mana drain


    Well, at least we can both have a laugh about that. Void Knights are silly.

    Warriors are fine at 50.

    But they're not from levels 10-49, which, believe it or not, is the major part of the game. Further, Champions are the only Warrior soul that becomes viable at 50, and even then it's just average.

    PVE: Who cares about PvP? You rock the charts in PvE.

    No, we don't. Our DPS is hundreds of points lower of Mages.

    PVE: Ok, well what about Warlord then?

    What's a warlord?

    PVE: What about Archon?


    Who the **** cares? Imma THROWIN FIREBALLS, and thars nothin u can do about it!!!


    Remember:

    The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Complain. Send feedback every time you die to a full life Necromancer or get one-shot by Pyros and are waiting to respawn. Complain in the forums. Start threads outside of the Warrior forum. Actively discredit Mages who would keep us down.

    Don't try to be mature or the "good guy" and stay quiet. It never works.

    Get in there and fight... or we're doomed.
    Last edited by Lysander Salavone; 04-02-2011 at 08:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Rift Master GriffonHawke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander Salavone View Post
    where Mages fill the same role as best survivability.
    You made me fall off of my chair laughing.

  3. #3
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    I have to admit, we deserve this thread.

    I also have to admit pyro is too strong right now, high damage mitigation+immunity to CC+high burst+stun(even if it is on DI, it's still a stun)+blink+other nifty tools is going too much. Pyro needs to retain it's bursty-ness, but it's a little out of control right now and everyone knows it.

    I agree that the whole tiered dps thing is stupid (mages/rogues do better dps than warriors/clerics ALWAYS), and that a dps SPEC should do ABOUT the same dps as any other dps SPEC is a much better approach since it takes the whole "get a *insert calling here* for dps" mentality away and puts more emphasis on player choice and style. I can't really comment on rogue or warrior dps specifically, but if they really are as far behind as people seem to think, and this isn't just raging at changes, then they obviously need a buff.

    What I don't agree with is the, semi-justified (as you have to keep in mind that those 7k fulminate crits are due to the WF buff), rage a pyro being directed at all the other mage souls. I think that Necro/lock/chloro/archon/SC are all in a pretty nice place, perhaps they need tweaks and minor changes, but nothing drastic (domi and ele are debatable, the first is flat out not viable in PvE which could be a design choice, and ele needs a bit of a buff IMO because it's viability as a stand alone spec is just not there).

    Warrior ranged dps isn't dead, you just HAVE to spec Para/RB and specialize now, which I think is a smart choice on the part of the devs. I have nothing against ranged warriors, I just don't think every warrior should be one.

    *EDIT*
    Mage survivability is due to 2 things: GoS for pyros OR the lock tree. I think the lock survivability due to Shadow Life and Neddra's Essence is okay, both are 3 min CDs and dont last a ridiculous amount of time; GoS is a slightly different issue, as it cannot be focused on in a vacuum. It's immunity from CC and 30% damage reduction WITH impressive burst and CC of it's own, putting all those facets together in the same soul is not a good idea.
    Last edited by TranquilSoul; 04-02-2011 at 09:38 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander Salavone View Post

    Warriors have more gap closers than anyone else.

    The most effective gap closer in the game is killing someone, and Mages can do it in 1 GCDs reliably without breaking a sweat. It doesn't matter if the Warrior closed the gap or not... homie's dead yo. The second most effective gap closer is charge, but it doesn't matter since mages no longer take damage. The third most effective is Void Knight Rift Summon, but it doesn't work on us because we're too cool for it, standin' in our circle. And even if it did... we're too cool for cooldowns.
    Really? You just lost whatever credibility you attempted to come in here with. 1 GCD without any effort eh? The ONLY one shot ability a mage has is a fulminate crit, which requires....wait for it. Ground of power, flamebolt 10% buff, internalize charge, fulminate critting AND the angel wings buff. That's not only THREE GCD's, but 4 separate skills, a RNG win in getting a crit, AND a warfront temporary buff.

    Yeah but you're right that takes no effort or planning whatsoever, go back to the warrior boards and whine there.

  5. #5
    Rift Master GriffonHawke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TranquilSoul View Post
    I have to admit, we deserve this thread.

    I also have to admit pyro is too strong right now, high damage mitigation+immunity to CC+high burst+stun(even if it is on DI, it's still a stun)+blink+other nifty tools is going too much. Pyro needs to retain it's bursty-ness, but it's a little out of control right now and everyone knows it.

    I agree that the whole tiered dps thing is stupid (mages/rogues do better dps than warriors/clerics ALWAYS), and that a dps SPEC should do ABOUT the same dps as any other dps SPEC is a much better approach since it takes the whole "get a *insert calling here* for dps" mentality away and puts more emphasis on player choice and style. I can't really comment on rogue or warrior dps specifically, but if they really are as far behind as people seem to think, and this isn't just raging at changes, then they obviously need a buff.

    What I don't agree with is the, semi-justified (as you have to keep in mind that those 7k fulminate crits are due to the WF buff), rage a pyro being directed at all the other mage souls. I think that Necro/lock/chloro/archon/SC are all in a pretty nice place, perhaps they need tweaks and minor changes, but nothing drastic (domi and ele are debatable, the first is flat out not viable in PvE which could be a design choice, and ele needs a bit of a buff IMO because it's viability as a stand alone spec is just not there).

    Warrior ranged dps isn't dead, you just HAVE to spec Para/RB and specialize now, which I think is a smart choice on the part of the devs. I have nothing against ranged warriors, I just don't think every warrior should be one.

    *EDIT*
    Mage survivability is due to 2 things: GoS for pyros OR the lock tree. I think the lock survivability due to Shadow Life and Neddra's Essence is okay, both are 3 min CDs and dont last a ridiculous amount of time; GoS is a slightly different issue, as it cannot be focused on in a vacuum. It's immunity from CC and 30% damage reduction WITH impressive burst and CC of it's own, putting all those facets together in the same soul is not a good idea.
    I have said this before somewhere, but I don't agree with your views on "same DPS". In PvP situations, you are correct. No one should have an enormous amount of damage higher than another class can achieve, but its only in PvP really. If all 4 classes can achieve the same DPS and healing in PvE, you eliminate the mage class. No one would want to play a mage if they can do the same damage as a warrior wearing plate armour, or the same healing as a cleric wearing chain.

    I know you are tired of being a warrior and being the designated tanker since 1956, but we just cant do that. I am not tired of being the mage designated to DPS, and if I ever am, I will go and make a warrior, or a rogue, or a cleric. If I get tired of being only DPS (or healing) as a mage, I will play another class, not try to get the Devs to give my mage plate armor so I can tank.

    So if you want to DPS and not tank... Instead of trying to get them to make you the same DPS as every other class, why dont you try another class? Not every class can be equally good at everything. That is the whole point of the class system.



    (I do think pyros should be nerfed)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scase View Post
    Really? You just lost whatever credibility you attempted to come in here with. 1 GCD without any effort eh? The ONLY one shot ability a mage has is a fulminate crit, which requires....wait for it. Ground of power, flamebolt 10% buff, internalize charge, fulminate critting AND the angel wings buff. That's not only THREE GCD's, but 4 separate skills, a RNG win in getting a crit, AND a warfront temporary buff.

    Yeah but you're right that takes no effort or planning whatsoever, go back to the warrior boards and whine there.
    Uh dude, look down the first page of threads in the mage forum.

    Notice anything similar to this thread?

    If you already know what i'm talking about, then you definitely should have come in expecting this.

    Oh and it definitely should have spelled out something with the first letters, I mean come on, this could be so much better.
    Last edited by kungfuchknoodle; 04-02-2011 at 10:20 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriffonHawke View Post
    I have said this before somewhere, but I don't agree with your views on "same DPS". In PvP situations, you are correct. No one should have an enormous amount of damage higher than another class can achieve, but its only in PvP really. If all 4 classes can achieve the same DPS and healing in PvE, you eliminate the mage class. No one would want to play a mage if they can do the same damage as a warrior wearing plate armour, or the same healing as a cleric wearing chain.

    I know you are tired of being a warrior and being the designated tanker since 1956, but we just cant do that. I am not tired of being the mage designated to DPS, and if I ever am, I will go and make a warrior, or a rogue, or a cleric. If I get tired of being only DPS (or healing) as a mage, I will play another class, not try to get the Devs to give my mage plate armor so I can tank.

    So if you want to DPS and not tank... Instead of trying to get them to make you the same DPS as every other class, why dont you try another class? Not every class can be equally good at everything. That is the whole point of the class system.



    (I do think pyros should be nerfed)
    You are assuming that dps gear gives the same mitigation to plate wearers that tank gear does. I don't want a warrior in a tank set-up to do the same dps as a mage, that would be stupid. I want a dps warrior, in dps gear, with a dps spec to do the same dps as a mage doing the same, and any extra mitigation received from items to only compensate for the fact that a warrior will be in melee receiving more damage while dpsing.

    This is, of course, an ideal situation and isn't really an achievable goal in all encounters. And I understand what you are saying, no class should be able to do everything, and I agree; but I also think all classes need to be able to do more than ONE thing, and I think that is the spirit Trion wanted to give to this game.

    All callings have a primary role: Mages=dps, rogues=dps, Clerics=heals, warriors=tanks; BUT, every calling has 2 secondary roles they can fill which are spec/soul specific. Healing with mage, tanking rogues, dpsing warriors, and tanking clerics; everyone gets a buff class (Archon, Bard, Warlord (which needs a buff) except clerics who get dps as a tertiary role via shaman and Inquis.

    The real question becomes, should a ranged warrior like a RB dps as well as a ranged mage. The answer is no; but a MELEE warrior damn well do comparable dps to a ranged mage in PvE situations. Damage mitigation becomes a fair trade for range and mobility in PvE, the classes who NEED to be next to the boss to do damage NEED more mitigation than those at a range in order to pull off comparable numbers.

    *EDIT*
    I'm a mage main BTW
    Last edited by TranquilSoul; 04-02-2011 at 11:09 AM.

  8. #8
    Shadowlander Scarrlett's Avatar
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    I didn't bother reading any more than the OP, so no flames please.

    But honestly, this is the same **** we were hearing pre 1.1. Mages were *****ing pre 1.1 about damage and Wars were saying L2P. Now it's the other way around.

    Notice how 1.1 only fixed Champs obscene Titan's Strike? Well the next hot fix will most likely nerf Pyros. So make your complaint, but quit bringing up the same ****ing issue every other thread.
    "Removed the obsolete reagent vendor. These were not the items you were looking for." - Trion

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Tikay's Avatar
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    I'll only reply to these two, as the rest would will make me seem like whining too much, even if most statements of you are completely wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander Salavone View Post
    Warriors are fine at 50.
    But they're not from levels 10-49, which, believe it or not, is the major part of the game. Further, Champions are the only Warrior soul that becomes viable at 50, and even then it's just average.
    Warriors aren't viable in the 10-49? You have to be kidding me.
    K, warriors cant spam flamespear anymore (needed nerf), reavers don't get as much selfhealing anymore (needed nerf, surely if coupled with a pala build + block proc'd heal), but they do own in close range if they want to.
    With all this whining about warriors getting nerfed, I made one myself, and it's facerolling through targets (pve and pvp wise, and atm lvl 38).
    Ofcourse it's an adjustment for me, coming from a mage playstyle, but not anything that made me think "damn this is hard".
    Is the adjustment for people that alrdy were warriors heavy? I guess so, you saw a drop in your dps, but it's still higher than mages (not burst wise vs pyro endgame).
    The problem I have on my warrior in alot of areas is finding targets, which I didn't had a problem with on my mage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander Salavone View Post
    PVE: Who cares about PvP? You rock the charts in PvE.
    No, we don't. Our DPS is hundreds of points lower of Mages.
    The warrior I made still bursts heavier then my mage did at its level by a long shot.
    There may be a downtime between fights of 10sec to get the cooldowns over with, but bullrush->SLI->spam attackmacro/finisher/attackmacro = target dead, or nearly dead (same lvl or 2lvls higher still) + me rarely needing a heal, unless it's 3v1 (smashing aoe macro/aoe finisher).
    Necrolock I teamed up with was laughing his rear off "and I thought warriors got nerfed badly", dot dot bolt and I alrdy beaten down the target (made him not care for dots anymore while we teamed up), it was as if I was teaming up with a healer.
    Pve endgame I can't talk about, but you stating it like you did refers to all lvls.
    Last edited by Tikay; 04-02-2011 at 11:26 AM. Reason: bad spelling
    Tikay lvl 50 mage - Fontana lvl 50 rogue

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander Salavone View Post
    . "Mages are on top where they should be, despite being dress wearing girls. Deal with it."
    I stopped reading at weird sexist rant.

  11. #11
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    I might be one of the few who aren't going Pyro....becuase its lame, but I don't agree with this warriors post 100%. I'm fine with Pyro getting nerfed, they should at least be silenceable IMO. But speaking of silence, when I roll into a WF, I am chain silenced, stunned, and sometimes I don't even know what else, but I can't act.

    But anyhow, I'm still getting stunned, unable to break from a warrior becuase of snare immunity, and being pummeled. My only saving grace now is that when I do get some range I'm not getting pelted by said warrior for crazy amounts of damage. A warrior can still close the gap, hit hard, and use CC that won't break on damage. I'm not crying for them.

    The only thing that is truely the bane of warriors are Pyro Mages, but they are the bane of everyone right now. If they get Rank 5 gear, sit on thier circle, and spec right, bard heals can keep them up indefinitly while they nuke. But these 1 shots you feel like are happening to you, those aren't as they seem, you are likely just getting focus fired by 2 or more people. Sucks, I know.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander Scarrlett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grevilavec View Post
    I might be one of the few who aren't going Pyro....becuase its lame, but I don't agree with this warriors post 100%. I'm fine with Pyro getting nerfed, they should at least be silenceable IMO. But speaking of silence, when I roll into a WF, I am chain silenced, stunned, and sometimes I don't even know what else, but I can't act.

    But anyhow, I'm still getting stunned, unable to break from a warrior becuase of snare immunity, and being pummeled. My only saving grace now is that when I do get some range I'm not getting pelted by said warrior for crazy amounts of damage. A warrior can still close the gap, hit hard, and use CC that won't break on damage. I'm not crying for them.

    The only thing that is truely the bane of warriors are Pyro Mages, but they are the bane of everyone right now. If they get Rank 5 gear, sit on thier circle, and spec right, bard heals can keep them up indefinitly while they nuke. But these 1 shots you feel like are happening to you, those aren't as they seem, you are likely just getting focus fired by 2 or more people. Sucks, I know.
    I play Chloro/Lock in WF's and rarely die or get CCed, Silenced, etc. I guess I just play against scrubs, but honestly, I don't see War's all that menacing. I understand the concept of Plate > Cloth. Unless I get a CC off of some kind, I will be dead. If I get CCed to hell, well GG for me. Simple concept.
    "Removed the obsolete reagent vendor. These were not the items you were looking for." - Trion

  13. #13
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    Although I find the OP's argument ridiculous and irrational, I do agree Pyros might be a little too good in their current form. I refuse to play one, and as such, do not PvP as there are no real PvP specs that don't involve Pyro/Lock. (Unless you can get a full group to queue with you)

    Also, I like wearing dresses. They make me feel pretty. Shame on you for trying to insult our pretty frocks.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched
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    award for worst post ever!

  15. #15
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    I'm confused.
    In general mages didn't change at all at 1.1, why are warriors whining now?

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