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Thread: Mana Wrench - Better NOT to Train?

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Nevergone's Avatar
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    Question Mana Wrench - Better NOT to Train?

    So I was thinking, is it better to not upgrade Mana Wrench? I'm not referring to the branch ability that improves the skill, I'm talking about training it at a mage trainer.

    Since the dominator soul has the Durable Control branch ability, that allows an enemy to remain under the effects of transmogrify, disorient, and mass exhaustion for up to 30.5% of the mage's health - wouldn't it make sense to have Mana Wrench deal LESS damage?

    Since the return on the mana drain portion is a flat percentage regardless of what rank the mage has trained, keeping the damage on Mana Wrench at a minimum would result in the mage being able to drain as much mana as possible while their target stays controlled.

    Food for thought, do most mages investing in the Dominator soul find themselves not upgrading Mana Wrench?

  2. #2
    Ascendant
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    I accidentally trained a few ranks, I think I'm on 4 and it still does like 40 damage a tick. I don't think theres any risk of it breaking even at max rank.

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    Mana Wreches damage sucks all-together so I don't see why not.

    Course, I don't drain-trans'd mobs, I put storm shackle on em. ^_^

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    Plane Touched Nevergone's Avatar
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    Maybe instead of dealing damage to the target each second, Mana Wrench could apply a debuff that lingers for a few moments after the spell expires that reduces the intelligence or damage dealt of the target.

    This may give mages an incentive to upgrade the spell to higher ranks.

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    I'd perfer an instant-cast 18% (36% with points in it) mana siphon, that does the damage it does now, on a say, 6s CD, or just a 1.5s GCD.

    The 6s duration of the spell kind of blows the whole efficiency out of the spell when there are others (locks sac life-mana, and chloros lifegiving shield that regens mana)
    If it was instant cast, and even just on a 6s CD would bump up its use from 'meh' to actually worthwhile, and not wasting 6s regening 36% mana, and doing lousy damage when you could use 4.5s of that time casting other nukes or other spells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterDeath View Post
    I'd perfer an instant-cast 18% (36% with points in it) mana siphon, that does the damage it does now, on a say, 6s CD, or just a 1.5s GCD.

    The 6s duration of the spell kind of blows the whole efficiency out of the spell when there are others (locks sac life-mana, and chloros lifegiving shield that regens mana)
    If it was instant cast, and even just on a 6s CD would bump up its use from 'meh' to actually worthwhile, and not wasting 6s regening 36% mana, and doing lousy damage when you could use 4.5s of that time casting other nukes or other spells.
    It's more of a PvP thing anyway.

  7. #7
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    Mana Wrench not designed to dish out huge amount of damage. It's design to refill mana quickly and at almost no cost. So the extra damage you get out of it a bonus.

    I can't remember how many times I lockdown a player mana bar just using that ability. You can consume 2 full mana bar under a minute. Making other mages and cleric not paying attention to you, regret their actions severely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supremax67 View Post
    Mana Wrench not designed to dish out huge amount of damage. It's design to refill mana quickly and at almost no cost. So the extra damage you get out of it a bonus.

    I can't remember how many times I lockdown a player mana bar just using that ability. You can consume 2 full mana bar under a minute. Making other mages and cleric not paying attention to you, regret their actions severely.
    Sac life: mana will get you full mana faster.

    Stealing mana, in pvp or pve it does an 'okay' job, but it could be better imo.

    Mana Wrench compared to Transference for example, Varies abit.
    Mana Wrench steals at most 36% of your max mana from your target. (at 50, with say 5k mana, thats 1800 mana) Assuming you put the points into it. 18% if you didn't. (900 stolen)
    Transference steals 400 mana at level 50 (technically at 46) But I don't know if this scales with spell power or not. (or if only the damage scales with level)
    400 would be 8% of 5k (but its static in this case) and while that may work out mathematically to just about 5.5% when you figure in the 1.5s GCD compared to mana Wrench, it also does something like 4x the damage, and steals Mana/Energy/Or power, where as Mana Wrench only steals mana & Energy.

    Stealing a full bar of mana in PvP would require 3 casts of specced mana wrench, which is 18s, or 6 casts un-specced or 36 seconds. 18/36s of standing in one spot (or several) with a very easy to see 'streaming' spell flying at your target.

    Its like when you see another mage cast a 'green' version, you know its stream of reclemation, and you know they are a Chloro, and they must die.
    When you see a blue/black version its Mana Wrench. and that is a giant beacon to every rogue/warrior/mage/cerlic (DOMINATOR! FREE KILL!)

    Transference being an instant cast, has the added benefit of people not really noticing you casting it.

    Personally I only use Mana Wrench in PvP when I'm extremely low on mana, and my pots are on cooldown (or another dom has wrenched me.)
    Otherwise, I find its more effective to simply cast Transference on another mage/rogue, and toss around a couple of silences. And if I get bored, I toss out the Group Reflect, and let the enemey kill themselves.

    The other issue with mana wrench is it behaves the opposite of what other spells do, when you get hit.
    When your casting a 2.5s spell, if your getting hit in melee, it may take you 2.75s. With the type of channeled spell like mana Wrench, instead of increaseing the duration (As that would actually make it better) it decreases the duration. So, your 18/36% drained, could go from that, to 15/30, 12/24, 9/18, 6/12, or even 3/6. all depending on how hard your hit, and cc's.
    If they were to remove the channeled property from Mana Wrench, and make it instant cast, on a 6-12s CD, I think it would work much better for us.

    I wouldn't mind having our 'knock back' channeled, or even give dominator a nuke that works like mana wrench that actually does damage, or apply some kind of CC to it besides mana stealing. Who wouldn't enjoy a 'channeled' CC? Get some people to quit there hounding at least. :P

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    if you are going to use mana wrench, definitely train it.

    You can squirrel and drain most, if not all of the mana of your opponent without breaking the squirrel. Hit transference after a few drains and they are definitely out of mana.

    I think mana wrench is a very situational spell. I generally only use it in smaller fights against the clerics. I fell in love with mana wrench (and the dominator soul in general) after I watched a battle turn after fighting for at least a full minute or two in a 4v4.

    No one was dying because of the heals on both sides, they had two clerics. So I stopped trying to DPS, and I silenced one, squirreled the other and drained his mana in 2 drains and a transference (he was at ~75-85% before I started the drains), as he started running the other cleric is closing the distance with me,.. I look over... oh, look, their two DPS have are dying now that the heals are gone, and now it's a 4v2 with one of their clerics useless and running (until I rooted him while we killed off his friend).

    Granted, if you're in a big fight with smart players, the beam of blue is going to be like a target on your back, but I like the mana wrench how it is. It shouldn't be easy to make someone else useless.
    Last edited by playapez; 03-29-2011 at 12:12 AM.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Eraven's Avatar
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    don't bother on the transference.

    At 50:
    Mana Wrench drains like 350 mana / tick, whereas Transference drains 400 at once. I'd rather save my Transference for that energy/power-hoar ability-spamming warrior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eraven View Post
    don't bother on the transference.

    At 50:
    Mana Wrench drains like 350 mana / tick, whereas Transference drains 400 at once. I'd rather save my Transference for that energy/power-hoar ability-spamming warrior.
    True, but you also have to consider that Wrench at full-use is a 6s duration of standing still, not always an option in pvp. ;)

  12. #12
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    transference also halts all energy/power/mana regen for a few secs and is most efective vs rogs or warriors and less so vs mages but some what usefull on clerics ( on wich its best to 1st drain down low and then cast transference to stop new mana)

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Default your forgetting...

    your forgetting that while your draining them, they are also casting spells... i've used this in pvp its quite effective if done right a cleric or other healer will if not oom be severely hampered, do i get trained? sometimes but you'd be surprised how often people just ignore you...and then wonder what happened to there healers... its even better if you get a couple mages doing it.

    its not near as horrible as people make it out to be...mean go play wow and try mana drain lol... you'll be glad you have mana wrench!

  14. #14
    Ascendant phoenixfire82's Avatar
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    problem with mana drains is clerics heal almost as well on an 'empty' mana bar as they do on a full one, so even after they're drained you have to continue the mana bar pressure on them or 10 seconds later when you target them they're at 25% mana, with 50k more healing done since you 'removed them from the game' as all their whine posts claim. mana drain is completely worthless against most mages. I laugh when anyone drains me in pvp, and thank them for wasting their time.
    Last edited by phoenixfire82; 03-29-2011 at 04:28 AM.

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