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Thread: Any Dominator using Reflective presence ?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Rhin's Avatar
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    Unhappy Any Dominator using Reflective presence ?

    I really liked reflective presence in beta events and release 1.0 you spend like 28 points in dominator to get it and improve it but you were "the solution" of the AoE spam that exist in this game... you could go to port scion bridge and for 10 seconds(full of charge) if anyone dares to AoE spam you could kill them and save your group.

    Patch 1.01 broke/fix Reflective presence and now only works on Direct spells agains you or your allys and only if they are the primare target, it no longer works in AoEs and GAoE, tested with sould drain, lurking decay, detonate, tyranity, circle of oblivion, 70% of the stormcaller spells including lighting field and forked lighting, Aoe fire spells from pyro and elemtalist, AoE dots from warlocks and dmg shields like warlock armor and charged shield.
    Also for exemple spells like soul drain or lighting field don't work well with reflective presence and only returns the first hit but no the hits that comes from other players when it ricochets.

    Again in 1.0 was perfect working on AoE so you can counter the aoe spam you find in port scion or orther mass group situations, right now the only way to stop it is to have 3 bards and others healers.

    Conclusion, right now reflective presence is nearly useless becouse it only works with fireballs and bolts of judgement/depravity and few more spells yeah its really fun to use it agains a pyro for 8-10s but i am really wonder if its that good now to spend the points in it and improving it.

    Any other Domi thinks the same ? or want reflective presence to be like 1.0?
    Last edited by Rhin; 03-26-2011 at 04:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Unfortunately dom's need quite an overhaul with recent changes with DR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarad View Post
    Unfortunately dom's need quite an overhaul with recent changes with DR
    Disorient needs to not DR with any of the other CCs to be worth it. If thats already the case, oops but I'll assume otherwise.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Don't Dom's have a group silence within 10 yards? or would that not work
    Last edited by Teletolumby; 03-29-2011 at 07:36 AM.

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    That kind of sucks, leave it to trion to make Dominators even more useless in raid situations. Right now they are nothing but a glorified cure buff machine as almost every boss mob is immune to CCs. Their DPS is pretty worthless compared to other mage builds.

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    Champion of Telara Hethroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teletolumby View Post
    Don't Dom's have a group silence within 10 yards? or would that not work
    Ground of Skill > AE Silence. You also run into immune targets and DR.

    What I am having trouble is finding places to use Overpowering Will instead of squirrel, as squirrel seems to be superior in every way (does not use charge, is much more durable)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hethroin View Post
    Ground of Skill > AE Silence. You also run into immune targets and DR.

    What I am having trouble is finding places to use Overpowering Will instead of squirrel, as squirrel seems to be superior in every way (does not use charge, is much more durable)
    I wonder if it is worth it getting 25 pts in Archon to get purging flames to deal with GOS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonDragn View Post
    That kind of sucks, leave it to trion to make Dominators even more useless in raid situations. Right now they are nothing but a glorified cure buff machine as almost every boss mob is immune to CCs. Their DPS is pretty worthless compared to other mage builds.
    True, however being able to CC a boss would be OP, CCing adds in a boss counter, That should be a necissity in PvE raids. Specially requring very fast CC.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Vabjekf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterDeath View Post
    True, however being able to CC a boss would be OP
    I dont see why. Currently agro is easy to get/hold in this game. While once you get into the experts aoe agro is not as simple to hold as it was while leveling, i dont think anyone has trouble holding single target agro.

    So how is being able to just shut down a boss for a little while any different from just filling the spot with another healer to spam more heals on the tank?

    In the end its really the same thing.

    I think it would actually be innovative if trion did knock bosses down a peg and made them 'mess with'able. It would require them designing encounters not based on scripted events though, but actually putting some more thought into the enviornment/ai, so its probably not something we will see =(

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vabjekf View Post
    I dont see why. Currently agro is easy to get/hold in this game. While once you get into the experts aoe agro is not as simple to hold as it was while leveling, i dont think anyone has trouble holding single target agro.

    So how is being able to just shut down a boss for a little while any different from just filling the spot with another healer to spam more heals on the tank?

    In the end its really the same thing.

    I think it would actually be innovative if trion did knock bosses down a peg and made them 'mess with'able. It would require them designing encounters not based on scripted events though, but actually putting some more thought into the enviornment/ai, so its probably not something we will see =(
    Okay, let me put it this way.

    Some bosses in many raids, throughout many mmorpgs, have various 'tricks' to them.
    Aside from your standard Tank and Spank Boss, you have some bosses, who for instance, will fully heal themselves, when they reach full mana/energy.

    Obviously meaning you need a raid to constantly suck up that 'mana/energy' else you gotta start over again. If you were to squirrelize that boss as soon as he were to get FM, preventing that massive heal. Why even bother having that mechanic to the raid?

    Some bosses, will deal more damage, based on how many mobs are spawned.
    If you could Squirrel it, Whats to to stop the raid from just taking its time, taking out the 'adds', then taking the boss down? Afterall, part of the entire raid-mechanic would be to survive the boss's pounding, while you take care of the adds.

    Theres the 'gas' type boss, Where the boss will create an area of killable gas behind the boss, meaning you gotta rush to take out the boss, and deal with any adds that are spawned, because the more he moves around, the more the room is filled up, meaning hte less room you have to move in.

    If you could Just CC the boss when the adds spawn. Whats the pont of that mechanic?

    Escentially, being able to CC a Boss can fairly easilly trivilize the encounter, depending on exactly what kind of mechanics are in play.

    If the Mechanic of the boss is STOP THAT SPELL! CANCEL IT! INTERUPT IT! Then yea, we shoudl be able to CC the **** out of him. But there are plenty of raid-boss-mechanics out there that CC that DoM has would completely triviliaze the encounter.

    Thats why I say, put in a whole Slew of ADDs. Requiring a quick-reacting CC-Dom, and not just a 0 point, 2s cast Trans Dom. And making encounters were a dom with AoE Confuse, could make or break a raid.

    If every raid boss, every dungeon encounter is simply a tank and spank, AoE Grind fest. This game will get boring fast.

  11. #11
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    Onto the topic its self, I can see why AoE + reflects can be a bit of an OP issue.

    Consider this.

    Lets say you take the typical RPG spell. 'Chain Lightning'.
    I cast it at you, and it deals '100' damage.
    Only you got reflect up, so it shoots back at me for '100' dmg.

    Thats okay.
    However.

    IF that chain were to hit you, then 10 of your buddies, it would reflect back at me, and hit me 11 times for 100 dmg or 1100 dmg.
    Not Okay.

    Now, a very, very simple fix to this I think, would be making that 'initial target' of the AoE, actually change the posistion of that 'AoE' to the person its reflected back at.

    So, If I chain-lightning a guy with a reflective shield up, Instead of hitting him, it woudl bounce back, hit me for 100dmg, then fork and hit all of my buddies.

    Same could work with 'firestorm' type spells, assuming the spell has to actually target someone for it to work, The reflect would simply, change to the person casting, and hit them, and there friends.

    The catch to this, is your standard RPG/Fantasy work-around to reflect/spell absorbing abilities.

    That is, If I don't actually target you specifically, but the area Around you.
    So, say I send a 'meteor' from the sky, to land at point A. If yoru in the way, to bad. :P
    Or in the case of something that absorbs 'magic', if I used magic to throw a chair at you, it would absorb the magic, but not the chair ramming into your face at mach 3. ;)

    I can definately see the balance concerns of having all dmg reflect back at the orginal caster, but I think it could easilly be rectified If that damage is spread out across that person's allies.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched Nevergone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterDeath View Post
    If the Mechanic of the boss is STOP THAT SPELL! CANCEL IT! INTERUPT IT! Then yea, we shoudl be able to CC the **** out of him. But there are plenty of raid-boss-mechanics out there that CC that DoM has would completely triviliaze the encounter.

    Thats why I say, put in a whole Slew of ADDs. Requiring a quick-reacting CC-Dom, and not just a 0 point, 2s cast Trans Dom. And making encounters were a dom with AoE Confuse, could make or break a raid.

    If every raid boss, every dungeon encounter is simply a tank and spank, AoE Grind fest. This game will get boring fast.

    The scenarios you listed in the first part of your post, I agree with. A single character shouldn't be able to trivialize an encounter by knocking out a boss-type enemy while the raid tackles whatever mechanic the fight revolves around. Obviously that would be overpowered, and I doubt anyone would disagree with you there.

    The problem is, currently, there are no boss-type encounters where crowd control is useful in the slightest. This is primarily due to the fact that boss-type enemies are completely immune to hard controls (mez, stun) and almost all soft controls (slow, silence, damage reduction). While I'm certainly not suggesting that all crowd control abilities should be made effective against boss-type enemies, I do think a workable solution needs to be developed to make crowd control viable in raid/boss encounters.

    I personally think it's a shame that Chastise and Draining Presence can only be used in PvP. I believe it would not be overpowered to allow them to be cast on NPCs, while perhaps applying a buff to the NPC upon expiration that prevents them from being cast again for an appropriate length of time. Either that, or change the mechanic of the two abilities so they can see some use in PvE encounters.

    You mention AoE Confuse (Mass Exhaustion) in your post. Unfortunately, that ability has very limited usefulness, due to the way the effect breaks on all the enemies it's cast on if even ONE enemy breaks free. That means, if one enemy takes too much damage - it breaks on all the enemies. If one enemy gets transmogrify cast on it by another mage - it breaks on all the enemies. Truthfully, Mass Exhaustion is really only useful at this time for eliminating danger on the perimeter of an encounter or for breaking apart groups of enemies while soloing as a dominator. The ability desperately needs to be changed so that each affected enemy is given an individual application of confusion that is not linked with the other affected enemies.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Mormoran's Avatar
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    Let me think which bosses can be CC'd in any way...

    Rorf's tigers can be squirreled, sap'd etc.

    The pyromancer in LH can have his spells reflected back at him, but I've only tried it with Reflective Command, not sure if Reflective Presence works for him.

    If you're quick enough to cast Reflective Command at the party member the second to last boss in LH hits with the fireball, it bounces back. Also not sure if Relfective Presence works here.

    The little spider adds (not the big ones) the spider boss in IT spawns can be squirreled to be dealt with later.

    The mage inthe three kings encounter can have his spells reflected back at him too.

    Pretty much those are the ones I can think of.

    And even then, it's not much of a CC, it's just a reflect shield :/

    Dominators need a lot more use in PvE encounters.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Sticx's Avatar
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    Reflective presence was fine when it worked against AOE. One aoe cast reflected by 6 members isn't enough to kill the mage. It's when the mage isn't paying attention and casts 3-4 aoe's on people with reflect up that it would kill them. In that situation the mage deserves to die anyhow.

    It was the prefect rock to aoe's paper, and wasn't full proof. The nerf was uncalled for.
    "Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." -Erica Jong

  15. #15
    Sword of Telara Ramea's Avatar
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    reflective presence was fine the way it worked since it is only a % of all spells that will be reflected and because the dominator has no real other aoe in his tree. I'd love an environment where using certain AOE spells might backfire at my group, tbh - sort of reminds me to bloodmage vanguard raid times where using a certain arcane based life tap heal skill could kill my raid if the mobs would reflect arcane.

    If it is considered "OP", I'd rather have them to either decrease the proc chance or the duration.

    And to those who say, CC on bosses would be OP: be a bit more creative and flexible, encounters would have to be designed around it but there are so many different ways of creating a PVE environment where Dominators feel useful:
    - Squirrel could have side effects when used on bosses (they could start to regen HP and Power or after X seconds of CC they would be "rested" and more powerful for a few seconds, or there could be deminishing returns and built up immunities similar to PVE)
    - certain Bosses could be made immune to it, while it is allowed on other bosses
    etc

    People are always so quick with saying "no that would be OP", when sometimes it wouldn't be or things only would have to be tweaked a little.

    having said all this, personally in instances I prefer to have no CC a la squirrel - I prefer an AOE heavy group setup with a good geared tank & healer. But preferences are different and why not allowing a worse equipped party finishing an instance when they have a really really skilled CC with them. Again, some encounters could be made immune against CC if it would break the script otherwise.

    GSB 5/5, RoS 5/5, DH 4/4, GP 4/4, RotP 4/4, HK 11/11, 5/8 ID (HM, no-reflect Rusila). Recruitment is open. We are especially interested in a highly skilled mage!
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