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Thread: Opportunity Bug

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Exclamation Opportunity Bug

    Has anyone else noticed the opportunity bug?

    I assume it is a bug anyway.

    Here are a couple examples.

    Let's say I am using a Pyro/Warlock build with Pyromancer Armor active and enough points in Warlock to get Opportunity for the chance to instant cast.

    So I'm casting Fireballs and get an Opportunity proc and a Cinder Burst proc at the same time. If you use Cinder Burst then the Cinder Burst proc and Opportunity are both consumed. If you were to use a Fireball before Opportunity then you would still be able to instant cast Cinder Burst from the armor proc. I'm thinking the instant cast Cinder Burst in this case should not consume Opportunity.

    Here is another example. Let's say you are using a Chloro/Warlock build of some sort. You have the points in Healing Slipstream to reduce the cast of Bloom to zero. If you get an Opportunity proc and happen to hit Bloom or Flourish instead of something with a cast time, then the Opportunity is consumed and you don't get to instant cast anything that isn't already instant.

    Basically it seems like anything that is normally not an instant cast still consumes Opportunity even if it shouldn't since it is already instant through other means. I'm assuming this would happen with Transmogrify from the Dominator tree if it is instant due to talents as well.

    I figured someone else would have already known about this, but since I didn't see a fix in this last patch and do not see this mentioned in the alpha notes then I figured I would make a post.

    Please bump this a bunch so it gets fixed!! Thanks!!

  2. #2
    Soulwalker Neteru's Avatar
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    I have found that sometimes my opportunity buff will be consumed by some certain instant cast regardless.
    I have not conducted further testing but thought i would throw it into the pit.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neteru View Post
    I have found that sometimes my opportunity buff will be consumed by some certain instant cast regardless.
    I have not conducted further testing but thought i would throw it into the pit.
    Me too.
    /10char

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by explicitsaint View Post
    Me too.
    /10char
    Would be helpful if you knew exactly which instant skills were doing this.

  5. #5
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    Isn't it obvious? If you actually payed(or paid, whatever. **** the english language) attention to proc, you would see that only instant spells that are instant because of talents or procs are consuming Opportunity

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Yes, I can confirm. Notices this bug bout 2 week ago and even reported it.
    Last edited by Aliram; 03-25-2011 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainyman View Post
    Would be helpful if you knew exactly which instant skills were doing this.
    Any spell or skill where the base ability is not instant cast will do this. For instance Flourish on the Chloro can be talented to instant cast, but it will continue to consume Opportunity. A similar event happens with a Necro's Exhume. If you proc opportunity off of Exhume (or beforehand) summoning your pet consumes both Exhume and Opportunity.

    This happened throughout the beta as well.

  8. #8
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    You haven't talented to make bloom and flourish instant, either. You talented to reduce thier cast time by 2 seconds. If you were, for example, debuffed to increase cast time of your spells by even 1%, you would be unable to cast either while running.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy Of Science View Post
    You haven't talented to make bloom and flourish instant, either. You talented to reduce thier cast time by 2 seconds. If you were, for example, debuffed to increase cast time of your spells by even 1%, you would be unable to cast either while running.
    That is true, but it doesn't make the spell any less instant than a zero casting time. Two seconds minus two seconds is zero, which is instant, which also means you can cast it while running. I really hate it when bloom or flourish eats my opportunity proc and hope they find a way to fix it. Sure, the spell isn't initially instant, but it becomes "instant" with the two points in the talent.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yasashiku View Post
    That is true, but it doesn't make the spell any less instant than a zero casting time. Two seconds minus two seconds is zero, which is instant, which also means you can cast it while running. I really hate it when bloom or flourish eats my opportunity proc and hope they find a way to fix it. Sure, the spell isn't initially instant, but it becomes "instant" with the two points in the talent.
    It might seem trivial, but the terminology I'm using is critical to the underlying meaning.

    Talenting to reduce cast time by 2 seconds is fudamentally different than talenting a spell to be instant cast.

    2-2=0 Talent to reduce cast time by 2.
    2x0=0 Talent to reduce cast time to 0.

    The fundamental difference, is mathmatical, and follows order of operation.

    If you get a debuff, for example, that increases cast time by 50%.

    (2x1.5)-2= 1 sec cast, even with the talent to reduce cast time by 2 seconds.
    2x0x1.5= 0 sec cast, if it had been a talent to make the spell instant.

    Just because the cast time of the spell in question is 0 currently, does not mean it isn't possible for it to benefit from being turned into an instant cast spell. Thus, if Opportunity was to proc while you were debuffed with increased cast time, it could still consume the proc and give you an instant cast regardless of the debuff.

    Now, it's possible that Opportunity has a spell list of know instant spells that it checks against to not be consumed by. But imo it'd have been easier for it to recognize the difference between a spell with a hard 0 in the cast time equation and not consume any of those. Meaning if your spell in question is simply a soft 0(ie 2-2) then it will still be consumed. This is speculation, and likely unimportant, though >.>
    Last edited by Philosophy Of Science; 03-26-2011 at 03:09 AM.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker Darkspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyborg99 View Post
    Isn't it obvious? If you actually payed(or paid, whatever. **** the english language) attention to proc, you would see that only instant spells that are instant because of talents or procs are consuming Opportunity
    if the english language is too hard for you, then **** and go back to w/e the **** your language is. you can use both of those words, paid is just more acceptable than payed...

    anyway on topic. i wasn't aware of this, i'd like to see this fixed so Opportunity doesnt get consumed by instant casts of any sort (but i guess if that happened all the warriors would cry for more nerfs :P)

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy Of Science View Post
    If you get a debuff, for example, that increases cast time by 50%.

    (2x1.5)-2= 1 sec cast, even with the talent to reduce cast time by 2 seconds.
    2x0x1.5= 0 sec cast, if it had been a talent to make the spell instant.
    It's very possible that Healing Slipstream applies to the base cast time, before any other modifiers. If it does, then your distinction between instant and 0-sec cast time doesn't exist.

    (2-2) * 1.5 = 0
    (2*0) * 1.5 = 0

    One could probably test this with a chloro/archon build and the aura that eats your spellcasting speed.

    Nice name btw.

  13. #13
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    Bloom and Flourish are able to be "slowed" and have a cast time again as well.

    Bugged it several times in game, but no one cares right now. Trion has too many things to do, like fix us OP mages in hotfixes.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy Of Science View Post
    It might seem trivial, but the terminology I'm using is critical to the underlying meaning.

    Talenting to reduce cast time by 2 seconds is fudamentally different than talenting a spell to be instant cast.

    2-2=0 Talent to reduce cast time by 2.
    2x0=0 Talent to reduce cast time to 0.

    The fundamental difference, is mathmatical, and follows order of operation.

    If you get a debuff, for example, that increases cast time by 50%.

    (2x1.5)-2= 1 sec cast, even with the talent to reduce cast time by 2 seconds.
    2x0x1.5= 0 sec cast, if it had been a talent to make the spell instant.

    Just because the cast time of the spell in question is 0 currently, does not mean it isn't possible for it to benefit from being turned into an instant cast spell. Thus, if Opportunity was to proc while you were debuffed with increased cast time, it could still consume the proc and give you an instant cast regardless of the debuff.

    Now, it's possible that Opportunity has a spell list of know instant spells that it checks against to not be consumed by. But imo it'd have been easier for it to recognize the difference between a spell with a hard 0 in the cast time equation and not consume any of those. Meaning if your spell in question is simply a soft 0(ie 2-2) then it will still be consumed. This is speculation, and likely unimportant, though >.>
    I know exactly what you mean, and I know things that slow down spells will make the spell have an actual casting time instead of being instant. My simple opinion is, though, that if a spell has a casting time of zero it should not each an opportunity proc. If a spell has any sort of casting time beyond zero, THEN it should eat an opportunity proc. There is no reason my zero second bloom spell should eat my opportunity proc when I planned to use it on nature's touch as a chloro etc.

    My best example of how this bug has killed the tank as a chloro is this: The tank hits 20% health from a massive crit or unlucky timing of crit and auto attack. I queue up bloom to heal him. Opportunity procs off the spell I just cast, yet it is then wasted on bloom when I could have used it on the nature's touch right after bloom to give him yet another major heal. Since that did not happen though, the tank dies to another crit since bloom alone was not enough to save him. If bloom had not eaten my opportunity, the tank would have survived....If my example makes any sense. It's hard for me to explain it. Wish I could have frapsed the few times this has happened.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yasashiku View Post
    I know exactly what you mean, and I know things that slow down spells will make the spell have an actual casting time instead of being instant. My simple opinion is, though, that if a spell has a casting time of zero it should not each an opportunity proc. If a spell has any sort of casting time beyond zero, THEN it should eat an opportunity proc. There is no reason my zero second bloom spell should eat my opportunity proc when I planned to use it on nature's touch as a chloro etc.

    My best example of how this bug has killed the tank as a chloro is this: The tank hits 20% health from a massive crit or unlucky timing of crit and auto attack. I queue up bloom to heal him. Opportunity procs off the spell I just cast, yet it is then wasted on bloom when I could have used it on the nature's touch right after bloom to give him yet another major heal. Since that did not happen though, the tank dies to another crit since bloom alone was not enough to save him. If bloom had not eaten my opportunity, the tank would have survived....If my example makes any sense. It's hard for me to explain it. Wish I could have frapsed the few times this has happened.
    No your example is a perfect example of how this effect is sub optimal.

    I do agree that a spell at the time of casting that is a cast time 0 (however it got there) should not consume an effect that would decrease it again to 0.

    I only wished to illustrate a likely cause to what was currently going on behind the scenes.

    I will recomend, however, that pushing through a spike on your tank by continuing your attack cycle is likely slightly more optimal than using Bloom/Flourish. I've found in my own experience (And thus this is just my opinion) that those emergency heals are best used when either forced into movement, or while unable to attack directly. An instant NT would likely have saved the tank in your example, and given enough breathing room to top him off or at the least maitain him mid range until your next NT is ready again. NT is beast.

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