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Thread: Archons and 1.1 patch

  1. #1
    Telaran mage souls's Avatar
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    Default Archons and 1.1 patch

    Hello hello,

    Since there is no "alpha shard" section on the forums, I've taken the liberty of providing feedback on patch 1.1 changes regarding Archon soul.

    ARCHON
    * Exhilaration: Now only triggers on damaging or healing Critical Hits. Mana procs will appear correctly in the combat log.
    Bug fix, I'm glad for it, nothing else to say :-).


    * Ashen Defense: No longer counts as a mage armor buff and will stack with other mage armors.
    Buff towards Archon / Pyro (Warlock, Ele), good stuff, can't complain. Thank you.

    * Procs from Surging Flare, Volcanic Bomb, and Earthen Barrage now affect allies within 35 meters of the caster.
    Convenience boost and I'm happy, quite often positioning was tricky and not everyone benefited from SF / VB / EB. This will increase the overall value of Archon soul in raids / Rift events.

    * Consuming Flames: Now a 6-point root ability. No longer deals damage to the caster and can be cast on yourself as well as other friendly targets. Now absorbs a set amount of damage and has multiple ranks.
    I'm slightly worried about "a set amount of damage". That means no scaling with spell power and we could easily see dropping usefulness of the ability itself as we get better gear. Please consider the amount of absorbed damage being affected by spell power. Thank you.

    * Power In Numbers: Corrected the second rank so it will affect aura buffs.
    Bug fix, can't complain :-).




    This will be quite lengthy, so please if you aren't interested, don't read.
    * Burning Purpose: The damage proc can now only occur a maximum of once every 1.5 seconds. Fixed an issue so that the damage proc is only affected by buffs active on the caster at the time it is triggered. Updated description on this ability to reflect current functionality.
    I play 51 point Archon soul on live and I have to honestly admit, I'm in love with it. Buffs and support is just my thing.

    Now if I understand the change correctly (and I think I do) it has been done to prevent abusing Burning Purpose with abilities that put debuffs on targets. Namely Plague Bolt, Grave Rot and Power Drain. Clever usage of those 3 abilities allowed Archons to reach dps that obviously wasn't intended by Trion. Please note I'm perfectly fine with reasoning behind the change. It wasn't intended, thus it will be fixed.

    On the other hand, I'm very concerned that the way the solution has been executed also hurts Archons on live that weren't abusing Plague Bolt (and were using Pillaging Stone instead).


    This is why:

    1) Since the damage from BP cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds, if Archon casts Pillaging Stone directly followed by Lingering Dust (or Crumbling Resistance or Ashen Defense or Power Drain) Burning Purpose will deal damage only once with 1.1 while on live it would proc twice.
    2) If Archon takes Opportunity and receives the proc while casting Pillaging Stone, Burning Purpose will also deal damage only once with 1.1 patch (deals the damage twice on live).

    Collateral damage of the Burning Purpose fix harms Archons (when we compare their dps output live vs. 1.1) even if they use Pillaging Stone as they are supposed to.

    Please Trion consider different approach to the issue, such as Burning Purpose dealing damage only by Archon soul abilities (Pillaging Stone, Lingering Dust, Ashen Defense, Power Drain and Waning Power) and add 5 sec cooldown on Power Drain. This would solve Burning Purpose abuse once and for all.



    On a side note, there are few thing that I've been concerned with regarding Archon Soul:

    1) At level 50 Athem of Glory currently provides 1 more armor Tempered Armor. This means that during any invasion or Rift even if there is a Bard present in a group (raid) and he activates Athem of Glory I cannot use my Tempered Armor at all and thus loose 2% less cast time and 4% spell damage (Speed in Numbers and Power in Numbers). Now if Bard refuses to change his Athem, I'm stuck at my 4 auras instead of 5 until one of leaves. And I'd like to point out this is very frustrating.

    2) If there are 2 Archons (level 50) in a raid, only one of them can keep his auras up. Which leaves the second Archon inviable and practically useless. What should a raid leader do if he has 2 players that both enjoy Archon soul? Or if one is Chloromancer and has 20 points in Archon and needs his auras for better healing?
    I'd suggest that Archons shouldn't overwrite each others auras and in addition if you have your own aura up (the negative effect is on you), you cannot consequently benefit from any other aura provided by other Archons.
    Which is worse? Ignorance or apathy? Who knows? Who cares?

  2. #2
    Shadowlander JadedNinja's Avatar
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    I couldn't agree with you more. I have played my archon from launch taking the time to learn the class the right way ! Now it comes to some people exploiting game mechanics to hurt honest players! Like you said it would have been better to say BP procs only for the archons abilities instead of us taking a hit like this silly really! I dont want to be just a buff bot on raids please trion lesson to this.Nor do I want to play the cookie cutter pyro builds to easy to play that class like warriors and sabo's

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple
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    People "abusing game mechanics" were just trying to keep up with the other callings.

    I'd rather burning purpose do more damage and proc every 5 seconds to avoid this kind of "cutting off".

  4. #4
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    I agree with you to a point but when push comes to shove archons are support not dps (same thing i say to the bards who are complaining) you are meant to bring the buff/debuff and do meh dps

  5. #5
    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorith View Post
    I agree with you to a point but when push comes to shove archons are support not dps (same thing i say to the bards who are complaining) you are meant to bring the buff/debuff and do meh dps
    Without trying to be overtly rude, I submit that it's Trion who gets to say what classes were meant to do and what they weren't. While I agree that the power drain toggle was abusive, I don't think clever use of mechanics like plague bolt or building storm were the least bit exploitative or required a fix.

    Now, in light of the damage increase they're putting in it very well might be that the change is warranted as those build's would see a massive spike in already competitive DPS, but it really irks me when players throw around their own ideas of how this game is supposed to work. One of the best things about this game is the soul system and it's ability to mix and match powers to ultimate effect. I don't like the idea of being punished for exceptionally clever use of the system.

    A bug is a bug, sure, but plague bolt triggering two ticks of BP is simply BP acting as advertised.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

  6. #6
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    So what are people looking at for builds now?

    I am one of the people who originally looked to this role for it's intended purpose to provide buffs and moderate dps and now that's exactly what we'll have. Pillaging Stone is the highest damaging nuke with a single debuff attached so it looks like we'll be a more pure spec. Add the temporary buffs back into your macro since they are worth casting again. Our AoE capacity is basically gone.

    I'm seeing a few raid specs:

    6 pyro for ground, cast time reduction, and fire armor
    9 elementalist for 5% crit 8% damage taken reduction (to help counteract the 10% increased damage taken in GoP)

    or (and probably worse)

    5 warlock for charge boost
    10 elementalist 5% crit 10% DR

    or a build for mediocre dps while keeping full archon buffs and putting out some moderate healing - very similar to bard in terms of dps/healing/buffs

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...esRfiqkrz.E0uz
    15 chloro (vile spores main nuke)
    0 dom (cc)

    Any other builds out there?
    Last edited by maxvla; 03-24-2011 at 11:36 PM.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander Erase's Avatar
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    I started my own thread about this a few hours ago. But seeing as this one is a bit more comprehensive and well put together...

    /signed!
    - Jokes - 50 Kelari Mage - Lotham PVP US -

    "Professionally mageing since 2k4"

  8. #8
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    Even if the timer was only 1 second, it would still hurt you placing instant cast debuffs after a pillaging stone (or any other cast timed spell with a debuff) since the GCD has already passed during casting.

    Hopefully there will be a better solution in the future.

    As a side note, without prebuffing BP on live, an archon can't create humongous dps. Personally I got to about 500ish in mostly T1 gear spamming plague bolt and using the power drain trick. So having the prebuff aspect removed from it already makes archon for a mediocre dps, let alone this cooldown. Although I agree with discouraging the hand-wrecking mechanic of clicking on power drain twice each second.
    Last edited by trutanen; 03-25-2011 at 12:31 AM.

  9. #9
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    Yeah the BP change is an overreaction IMO, the PD thing was a bit of an exploit and should be fixed but combining BP and a talented PB was just a smart way of combining souls to boost dps. If that combo was doing 1000+ dps then obviously it needed to be addressed but it wasn't, not even close (especially if you remove the PD clicking). I'm still fine with playing an archon on a 20-man raid and being more of a buff-bot but (despite the raid boost from buffs) I think I'll always feel I'm not quite pulling my weight now. I'm also now now expecting to use archon outside of 20-mans but I guess will wait and see.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Eraven's Avatar
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    Well explained. Good job.

    /sign

  11. #11
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    Oh and I wish they'd change Lava Field, just making it so it only removed a stack for a 500+ heal or something would be nice...

  12. #12
    Shadowlander Erase's Avatar
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    I agree that taking away the prebuff aspect of BP will nerf its dps into oblivion however...

    All of our aura's aside, the 7% magic damage that lasts 5 minutes is amazing, 5% phys damage that lasts 5 minutes also amazing, 10% melee/ cast speed debuff... uh sure why not? Then of course 10% damage reduction, this can make a WORLD of a difference during any kind of enrage when your tank is takin a beatin.

    Also, we were having a problem on Prince having the Oracle spawn and insta gibbing one of our players (no matter what spec he was, healer or dps so it wasn't a threat issue, she just didn't like his face =P). But between her first cast and the aoe dmg that comes right after, he would die EVERY time. I started giving him consuming flames before she came out and problem solved. 2k shield ate most of her damage and let him survive. (which... also may not be 2k anymore =/)

    The -point- to my story is that Archon brings A LOT to the table in a raid setting, and with the patch increasing the range our 3 rotational based buffs its even more now. As long as Trion does not keep this 1.5 second ICD on BP's damage, I will continue to play archon in raids simply because of the benefits to the other 19 people. Thats gotta count for something =P
    - Jokes - 50 Kelari Mage - Lotham PVP US -

    "Professionally mageing since 2k4"

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Pacifyer's Avatar
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    I will add my + for Aura stacking problem and buff overwrites.
    In my opinion any class buffs should not overwrite other class buffs.
    And 2 archons not being able to up their auras at the same time is just rediculous as they are dependant from those completely.
    You should give the power to one who doesn't want to use it
    Arm Dearg (Zaviel) Mage class leader
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    Wizards till we die!

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxvla View Post
    So what are people looking at for builds now?

    I am one of the people who originally looked to this role for it's intended purpose to provide buffs and moderate dps and now that's exactly what we'll have. Pillaging Stone is the highest damaging nuke with a single debuff attached so it looks like we'll be a more pure spec. Add the temporary buffs back into your macro since they are worth casting again. Our AoE capacity is basically gone.

    I'm seeing a few raid specs:

    6 pyro for ground, cast time reduction, and fire armor
    9 elementalist for 5% crit 8% damage taken reduction (to help counteract the 10% increased damage taken in GoP)

    or (and probably worse)

    5 warlock for charge boost
    10 elementalist 5% crit 10% DR

    or a build for mediocre dps while keeping full archon buffs and putting out some moderate healing - very similar to bard in terms of dps/healing/buffs

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...esRfiqkrz.E0uz
    15 chloro (vile spores main nuke)
    0 dom (cc)

    Any other builds out there?
    i though about something like this.....http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1z...esRfiqkrz.xc0c
    Replace Plague Bolt with Fireball...but need to test that now

  15. #15
    Ascendant
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    I'll just say straight up why this is being hotfixed. Red Ball prebuffing = LOL 800 ticks with ****ty gear, lasts through death. Also, lethargy.
    Last edited by Stimuz; 03-25-2011 at 02:23 AM.

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