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Thread: Think we need to back off for a bit

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
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    Default Think we need to back off for a bit

    Trion is nerfing the calling. And I know they're not done. There will likely be more nerfs to the mage calling introduced via hotfixes. But...

    I think they're trying to bring the calling to a baseline spec before they apply any general solutions. By applying small (to them) tweaks (major nerfs to us) here and there via hotfixes, they get a chance to collect and evaluate how those changes affect the overall performance.

    I'm no Trion fanboy / apologist / whatever. I bought Rift on a whim while passing a Gamestop. I don't see them having a burning hatred for all things Mage, which some of y'all would swear they have. It makes absolutely no sense seeing how the Mage calling could potentially make up 1/4th or more of their playerbase (1 out of 4 callings).

    It makes sense if they're looking at the macro view of playerbase performance. They're looking at the raw data generated by far more accurate parses of server logs. They do not see how difficult it may be for some people to play a mage. They don't have to experiment with souls and rotations to find optimal dps. If a guy at Trion wants to know how to max his dps, he walks down a few cubicles and asks the devs. We, however, have to pour game hours and levels into experimenting with skill allocations and spell rotations to figure out this stuff. And every minor change can invalidate all that time we invested. So we feel it in a very personal way.

    Why I say we need to back off for a bit is because it's obvious they're working towards something. Till they get there, they're likely to ignore all the cries from this forum. And quite honestly, the way some of y'all are acting is more embarrassing than having to wear a dress to every battle. If they're trying to establish a baseline performance according to their specs for the calling, they're going to do that by any means necessary, even if it does render us even more underpowered temporarily.

    What I'm doing is waiting for the first major patch, ignoring or adapting to the changes made during the hotfixes. If their current data says Radiant Spores, for example, will be sufficient at 16% proc chance and I l2p with it at that right now, + what they have planned will give me an advantage over anyone that ditches the calling (or the game and returns later). If I'm not satisfied after they've applied a general change to the calling, I'll make my decision then. I'm only locked into 1 month at a time after all.

    My .02 cents.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander not.my.spec@gmail.com's Avatar
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    Radiant Spores was never intended to heal for as much as it can in a raid, or in PvP, I would bet. That's likely the reason for the nerf. Most of the Radiant spore healing ends up over-healing as well since it was never going to reliably heal group members quickly enough. (Had to pop flourish for heavy AoE anyway)

    LGV is still only down to 5 people, the number in a dungeon, so it will no affect our ability to heal in experts at all. Especially since non of the values for synthesis were tweaked.
    In raid, chloro is generally used as a tank healer anyway due to synthesis, so our over-all healing will come down some but our tank healing should remain constant provided the synthesis target getting priority for healing.

    as far as nerfs go, people are blowing this one way out of proportion.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara Cabreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by not.my.spec@gmail.com View Post
    Radiant Spores was never intended to heal for as much as it can in a raid, or in PvP, I would bet. That's likely the reason for the nerf. Most of the Radiant spore healing ends up over-healing as well since it was never going to reliably heal group members quickly enough. (Had to pop flourish for heavy AoE anyway)

    LGV is still only down to 5 people, the number in a dungeon, so it will no affect our ability to heal in experts at all. Especially since non of the values for synthesis were tweaked.
    In raid, chloro is generally used as a tank healer anyway due to synthesis, so our over-all healing will come down some but our tank healing should remain constant provided the synthesis target getting priority for healing.

    as far as nerfs go, people are blowing this one way out of proportion.
    I agree with you 100%

  4. #4
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    I like RS but I've seen it go insane in pug rifts. From a solo play perspective, it could prolly stand the tweak so it'd stop being a 0 skill point crutch.

    But that wasn't the point of the post. Trion seems to be prepping for the balance patch by tweaking the small stuff first. And (hopefully) observing how those tweaks affect current performance before make any major adjustments. That way they can avoid tossing a bottle of nitroglycerin into a bbq pit that only needs a little starter fluid

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by not.my.spec@gmail.com View Post
    Radiant Spores was never intended to heal for as much as it can in a raid, or in PvP, I would bet. That's likely the reason for the nerf. Most of the Radiant spore healing ends up over-healing as well since it was never going to reliably heal group members quickly enough. (Had to pop flourish for heavy AoE anyway)

    LGV is still only down to 5 people, the number in a dungeon, so it will no affect our ability to heal in experts at all. Especially since non of the values for synthesis were tweaked.
    In raid, chloro is generally used as a tank healer anyway due to synthesis, so our over-all healing will come down some but our tank healing should remain constant provided the synthesis target getting priority for healing.

    as far as nerfs go, people are blowing this one way out of proportion.
    The nerf to radiant spores is going to severely hurt mage soloing specs that do not include Necromancer or Elementalist for a pet. Having fewer options is never a good thing. They could have just reduced the amount Radiant Spores healed for. With the forthcoming change, you will be lucky to see it proc in the 15 seconds it lasts.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Sorovos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Souldrake View Post
    The nerf to radiant spores is going to severely hurt mage soloing specs that do not include Necromancer or Elementalist for a pet. Having fewer options is never a good thing. They could have just reduced the amount Radiant Spores healed for. With the forthcoming change, you will be lucky to see it proc in the 15 seconds it lasts.
    Umm, What build for a mage doesn't include a pet when soloing..
    Xsorus - Rank 8 Mage/Server Seastone/Guardian/Guild - Desolate

  7. #7
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroshio View Post
    I don't see them having a burning hatred for all things Mage, which some of y'all would swear they have.

    IMHO, Trion's President's ex-wife probably plays a Mage. It would make sense.


    All kidding aside, hopefully they will rethink the nerfs, especially the 50% nerf to spores. Nerfing us at this point just adds insult to injury.
    I am a lawyer in real life, but I try to roleplay an honorable character ;)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Souldrake View Post
    The nerf to radiant spores is going to severely hurt mage soloing specs that do not include Necromancer or Elementalist for a pet. Having fewer options is never a good thing. They could have just reduced the amount Radiant Spores healed for. With the forthcoming change, you will be lucky to see it proc in the 15 seconds it lasts.
    Depends on what the final balance comes out to be. What if, once they're done balancing (which is supposed to address both general DPS and survivability), the solo mage doesn't need it to proc as much? It is a 0 point ability after all. Or 13 points, fully specced.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    the nerf didnt rly hurt that much,
    if you take closer view radiant spore actually still heals a LOT, a warrior banging a enemy 1 hit per sec and 500-1000 hits a sec so he still heals himself depending how large hit happends to heal him, but still a lot since its 100% heal of the hit.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    I probably wont cast this RNG spell anymore.

    Why?

    15% chance in 15 sec is rediculous. Think about it. How many times does the tank hit a mob during that 15 sec? Lets say around 15 times on average?

    So per cast of Radiant Spores (1 GCD and mana) you allow that tank to, on average, heal himself once per cast.

    True the other dps in the group have this chance as well but really they are mostly topped off anyways from LGV.

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorovos View Post
    Umm, What build for a mage doesn't include a pet when soloing..
    Simple Warlock / Chloro.

    I would pop an npc with radiant spores and then lay down all my dots.
    The healing procs provided by radiant spores would allow me to heal while I was nuking the npc down. This allowed me to solo npc's without getting beat down. Was it overpowered hell no considering that I could solo one npc easily, two with popping bloom or another heal and three with some trouble.

    Now compare that too a warrior than can outdps me and tank 3 npc's easily or my necro where I could do the same and I cant see how this skill can be remotely overpowered unless they are trying to tweak raid healing numbers.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Well the problem was that when there are many mobs,
    with the talent you have 100% for cast radiant on 8 mobs and
    then you aoe them, you hit 8 mobs per sec soo it healed in theory with over 2 hits each sec
    = if you hit like 500-700 with aoe which isnt that high still 1.2k heals per sec,
    1.2k heals per sec by aoe dmging? It's a bit too much..

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peegs View Post
    I probably wont cast this RNG spell anymore.

    Why?

    15% chance in 15 sec is rediculous. Think about it. How many times does the tank hit a mob during that 15 sec? Lets say around 15 times on average?

    So per cast of Radiant Spores (1 GCD and mana) you allow that tank to, on average, heal himself once per cast.

    True the other dps in the group have this chance as well but really they are mostly topped off anyways from LGV.
    See, this is why I don't understand the outrage. Those times I played a tank in other MMOs, I didn't want to rely on any random chance I'd get a heal when I needed it. A healer monitored my health bar and healed me accordingly. PERIOD

    Procs don't make a good party / raid healer. So the change shouldn't affect any good party / raid healers, no?


    Quote Originally Posted by jereome View Post
    Now compare that too a warrior than can outdps me and tank 3 npc's easily or my necro where I could do the same and I cant see how this skill can be remotely overpowered unless they are trying to tweak raid healing numbers.
    Or they know they have changes to both Mage and Warrior dps not yet implemented that they think will address your concerns.
    Last edited by Kuroshio; 03-23-2011 at 03:37 PM.

  14. #14
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peegs View Post
    I probably wont cast this RNG spell anymore.

    Why?

    15% chance in 15 sec is rediculous. Think about it. How many times does the tank hit a mob during that 15 sec? Lets say around 15 times on average?

    So per cast of Radiant Spores (1 GCD and mana) you allow that tank to, on average, heal himself once per cast.

    True the other dps in the group have this chance as well but really they are mostly topped off anyways from LGV.
    Agreed also if you plan on nerfing the skill why not just keep the skill the same and get rid of phytogenesis and replace it with something usefull. For example a skill that would increase our life damage or casting time for each point we have invested in chloromancer or perhaps some crowd control, or shadow step, haste or anything that could help. Or perhaps a skill that would increase the healing provided by life giving viel for other damage types.

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroshio View Post
    See, this is why I don't understand the outrage. Those times I played a tank in other MMOs, I didn't want to rely on any random chance I'd get a heal when I needed it. A healer monitored my health bar and healed me accordingly. PERIOD

    Procs don't make a good party / raid healer. So the change shouldn't affect any good party / raid healers, no?




    Or they know they have changes to both Mage and Warrior dps not yet implemented that they think will address your concerns.
    I don't know what is in store for the future, but Chloro healing was balanced with Radiant Spores healing as much as it did. The other chloro spells are going to have to make up the slack but I see no buffs yet.

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