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Thread: TheoryCraft Healer(Arch/Chloro/Lock)

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default TheoryCraft Healer(Arch/Chloro/Lock)

    Here is a build i thought up
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zvRz.xx0M.VdIuomc.hMesMf0ooM

    General summary:
    +20% Dmg from maintaining 5 archon aruas
    Buff the group significantly and self slightly
    still has opportunity and increased charge building plus a little hp
    can burst another +20% dmg when using charge (Entropic Veil and Power Drain)
    Can recover mana from 3 archon skills and sac lif

    Looking for input if this is viable

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier219 View Post
    Here is a build i thought up

    General summary:
    +20% Dmg from maintaining 5 archon aruas
    Buff the group significantly and self slightly
    still has opportunity and increased charge building plus a little hp
    can burst another +20% dmg when using charge (Entropic Veil and Power Drain)
    Can recover mana from 3 archon skills and sac lif

    Looking for input if this is viable

    Thanks
    link fix Arch/Chloro/Lock

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    This has been discussed many times on these forums...

    Anyway, from general consensus and personal experience/opinion, Chloro/Warlock is a much stronger healer than Chloro/Archon.

    With Chloro/Archon you become more of an "offhealer" than a "mainhealer".

    While on paper much of the Archon tree looks nice on paper, the Warlock tree is just too good.
    Also, you should be putting points into Warlock for higher-tier talents, not for Opportunity. While Opportunity is nice on paper, you have only one spell which is 2.5s (and its on a cooldown) - you will generally be spamming Vile Spores, which is 2 seconds. With the 1.5s GCD, this only increases its general throughput by about 25%. Putting points into Archon lowers Vile Spores to 1.7s cast, making Opportunity even worse.

    Thats why its almost always a part of our top DPS or Healing builds.

    You gain 20% spelldamage from the Warlock tree, while you only get 16% from Archon. The buffs are nice, but only half of them stack with Bard.

    You also lose 5% crit, which on top of your not taking Natural Awareness gives you really low crit.

    TBH you should stick between either main healer, or support. If you prefer support, go with a 51 archon build with 15 in chloro, or 5 necro/10pyro for DPS. If you prefer main healing, go Chloro/Warlock. Your build is too much of a hybrid to be the best at anything in particular, and in the end you just won't be performing the best for your group.

    Try something like:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...qxo.xdIuoAcz0o

    I personally prefer 3 points in Raised in Nature over 3% life damage, as many expert bosses CAN kill you. Those 3 points increase my total health pool by over 1000. You also get two defensive cooldowns to pop as needed - which have saved me plenty of times. More importantly, the full instant heal has saved our tank MANY times - i pop it when the tank is at 20% during hectic moments, allowing our cleric some breathing room.
    Last edited by KooperT; 03-21-2011 at 03:50 AM.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser
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    16% dmg and 16% healing > 20% dmg

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    16% Dmg + Healing vs 20% Dmg, 3% Healing (Call of Spring), 5% Crit (Potency)
    Based on his build.

    Considering Chloro heals are like 80% from Vile Spore spam, being that +healing abilities will only affect Bloom/Flourish (Both on CD's) i rather have 4% damage and 5% crit, and all the added Warlock utility buttons (and ability to AoE, if needed.) Not to mention the instant full heal...

    If you absolutely must, Chloro/Archon is a decent build too. Just take ALL points out of warlock, throw them into Chloro up to 32, then throw the rest into Archon to 32 for Flaring Power. Last two points go wherever.

  6. #6
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    well people are saying that, I'm gonna try to confirm or deny it by actually looking at the parses

    but I'm not going to just assume power in numbers has the same issue as call of spring

    I run 27 arch, up to mental flare for those looong fights (for the cleric not me) and power in numbers 2/2

    rest in chlor, I get enough crits without a 5% boost to proc the archon talent and there's rarely a situation where I need to waste a GCD on a mana boost (for myself)

    FYI bloom and flourish are pretty damn important in T2
    Last edited by Breyer; 03-21-2011 at 04:24 AM.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Some false info in this thread, +16% damage +16% healing DOES NOT APPLY TWICE TO LIFE GIVING VEIL!

    your spells will hit 16% harder thus giving 16% more LGV but the ticks of LGV will not get 16% in addition to that because LGV is not affected by +healing modifications (aka call of spring or archon talents)

    also, having played archon TRUST me you will spend more time applying your buffs and debuffs than actually healing and your tank will die


    in the end 20% damage > 16% damage

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Personal preference i guess.

    I personally have both a Chloro/Warlock spec AND a 51 Archon 15 Chloro spec, for whichever is needed more.

    As above poster mentioned, its better to stick to one - HEAL or SUPPORT. Trying to do both only means you are half-assing both. Either you are the groups main healer, or you are the offhealer (thus, you are interchangeable with the Bard). If your group often runs Cleric + Chloro, than you can get away with offhealing + supports. If you are the mainhealer and run Chloro + Bard, you are kicking yourself in the rear trying to buff the group while main healing. Obviously some fights you will do Cleric + Bard + Chloro, and in those fights you can get away with some mixture of offheals and buffs.

    I guess the Mental Flare is nice, although its really only useful for the Cleric since we never need it. But again, it depends on your cleric - most of the ones i run with are smart about mana potions, so they never run out of mana anyway (they can usually pop 2 a fight). I guess having the Mental Flare would save them mana potions, but its not like there's anything to spend plat on in this game... lol

    And yea i've cleared at least 30+ T2 dungeons by now, and Bloom/Flourish are definitely important - but the group heals (and tank heals) being thrown out by Vile Spore spam is just as important.

    I would say at least 32 Chloro in any build, then at least 32 Warlock or 28-32 Archon. Don't try to tri-spec Chloro/Archon/Warlock, thats just too spread out.

    Personally though if a fight allows me the time to weave in the Archon buffs, i usually find its one where off-healing isn't needed as much. In those cases i just go 51 Archon / 15 Chloro. Burning Purpose helps our Cleric spam heals far better, i can still spam Vile Spores and keep up a Photosynthesized Radiant Spores. The Vile Spore spam is just as strong as full Chloro, but even faster - 1.7s casts. Unfortunately you lose the Flourish, so i only do this during fights i know there won't be periodic spike AoE damage, or where more DPS is needed (Example: 2nd to last boss in expert CC)
    Last edited by KooperT; 03-21-2011 at 04:38 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    Some false info in this thread, +16% damage +16% healing DOES NOT APPLY TWICE TO LIFE GIVING VEIL!

    your spells will hit 16% harder thus giving 16% more LGV but the ticks of LGV will not get 16% in addition to that because LGV is not affected by +healing modifications (aka call of spring or archon talents)

    also, having played archon TRUST me you will spend more time applying your buffs and debuffs than actually healing and your tank will die


    in the end 20% damage > 16% damage
    uh have you tried healing and only buffing debuffing at opportune moments?

    might help lol

    oh and I meant 29 archon, sorry
    Last edited by Breyer; 03-21-2011 at 04:37 AM.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander AlfredBKnott's Avatar
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    I hated reading almost this entire thread. Chlorochon, in a situation where there is no other archon, vastly outheals Chlorolock. It also brings significantly more utility to your five man. People are continuously overlooking waining power and flaring power. 1 minute of flat out 10% extra damage and 5% less damage to the tank + 16% cast speed and damage > 20% damage. 16% increased speed > 10% chance of instant cast (numbers can be provided) and is more stable. Archon provides larger stat pool so higher sp and crit. Archon provides a 7% magic debuff on mob, so 16% + 7% = 23% extra damage which is > 20% extra damage. You could argue that you have a 3% magic debuff in warlock, but it's on a 1 minute CD and is up for 20seconds vs archon which is up for 4 minutes and can be recast instantly. Chlorochon also increases physical damage taken to the mob. Chlorochon also provides a 600-800 point damage shield. Chlorochon is also much more mana efficient, even if you can use life tap and your chloro shield to regain mana those are wastes of GCDs that you'd never have to use in chlorochon. Keeping up buffs is only difficult if you let them drop after they've been iniitially put up. Weaving them in between heals (once every 4 minutes) is not difficult and should not in anyway hurt your healing. This leaves out the fact that you can also add in volcanic bomb and Earthen Barrage occasionally during less intense damage times to provide 5% extra damage and crit.

    This is a DIFFICULT build, however, and to the novice chlorolock will be better simply because of YOUR inability to take advantage of the class combo, not the class combo itself.

    There is only one situation in which chlorolock would outshine chlorochon and that is if you have a 51 point archon in your group or raid.
    For luck you carried a horse chestnut and a rabbit's foot in your right pocket. The fur had been worn off the rabbit's foot long ago and the bones and the sinews were polished by the wear. The claws scratched in the lining of your pocket and you knew your luck was still there.

  11. #11
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    don't think the waning power stacks with the warlord one, they both give the same "immunity" timer I think

    I dunno I've been running with a warlord so I leave it out... maybe when they switch to VK for magic tanking?

    don't know War that well.
    Last edited by Breyer; 03-21-2011 at 04:44 AM.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander AlfredBKnott's Avatar
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    it's flaring power that doesn't stack, and most end game tanks are not warriors.
    For luck you carried a horse chestnut and a rabbit's foot in your right pocket. The fur had been worn off the rabbit's foot long ago and the bones and the sinews were polished by the wear. The claws scratched in the lining of your pocket and you knew your luck was still there.

  13. #13
    Telaran Quinalla's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the posts in this thread, going to have to try out a Chloro/Archon build tonight!
    --Quinalla, Mage of TOSH on Reclaimer

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    I would recommend minimum lvl 42 to get a full feel for chloro/arch:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...f0ozrz.tdIuo0c

    11 pts left. Add at least 9 more pts into choloro for the -mana cost buff.

    Yes.. at first it will look intimidating and require much more focus than warlock, but once you get use to it, it's imo much more fun and useful than boring warlock. So, if you want to just tunnel vision heal.. don't go with archon. Otherwise.. you get nice CDs and it feels a lot more useful w/o much sacrifice compared to warlock. Mana regen is a breeze, you can heal just as well, and you have more to do then just cast nature's touch/vilespores etc. over and over.

    Some Tips:
    1. 4 auras - refresh them at the same time so you only need to watch the timer on any aura.
    2. 5 self buffs. 1 is an hour (decent debuff tho) - so 4 to watch. 2 of those are instants - easy to keep up. You only need 1 tick of rockslide and 1 cast of pillaging to refresh the full duration - not hard to sneak those in. Gradually build the stacks up. At worse if you fall behind than the only negative healing effect is that your int is lower than it could be so don't panic/feel gimped if you are behind on a buff. Auras, on the other hand, should always be kept up.
    3. Macro Ruin, Nature's Touch and Vile Spores together.. spam this for constant heals
    4. Macro Radiant Spores, Earthen Barrage, Volcanic Bomb, Leeching Flames, Pillaging Stones or Nature's touch& Vile spores - start with this at the beginning of fights and whenever possible. Radiant spores is the first cast - meaning you can precast/refresh spores w/o casting the rest. Leeching flames can be left off.. but there is no reason to save it since there are better mana CDs. Might as well be topped off and add some dps. Now, you can put pillaging stones at the end and spam this macro to build up stones stack. or put the touch/spores and spam this for ez mode and switch over to healing macro when there's pressure. Or just make both macros. Regardless - stones should be by itself on your bar for the single refresh cast.
    5. Use consuming flames at the beginning of pulls to get ur buffs up with less risk. Come to think of it, maybe even add an @focus into that long chain as the 2nd cast. Bloom and flourish are fine for emergency heals.
    6. I believe Stream of reclamation gives you +charge up front w/o having to finish the channel. A lot of charge - useful to get quick boost for rockslide or flaring power. It's also good dps if you can finish channeling.
    7. Lava field seems so marginal.. i don't use it

    Hope that helps..

  15. #15
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    I generally wouldn't macro radiant spores ever because its cooldown is shorter than its duration and you'll wind up wasting GCDs.
    Last edited by Breyer; 03-21-2011 at 10:48 AM.

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