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Thread: Elemental Pet DPS

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Elemental Pet DPS

    So for necromancers I've seen a fair number of posts discussing the usefulness of necro zealot pets for dps, how do the elemental pets stack up? I know the earth elem is suppose to be a pretty sturdy tank but are any of the pets great for dpsing?

    I have the basic air elemental at the moment, it hits in the 40s, gets resisted a decent amount, what do higher level pets put out with no CDs active?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Ydyp's Avatar
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    If you look for a dps pet, go necro they got the best ones around in the mage calling. The elementalist dps pet (air elemental) is laughable at best, does just a little bit more dps then the earth elemental that you get depressed by it.

    The water elemental is more of a CC pet with their slows, so I haven't used it enough to see what dps it deals compared to the other 2. The only worthy pet is the earth elemental, it is a decent tank but with very low dps.

    Also the basic pets only go up to lvl 30, if you want better results from a pet you'll have to go deeper into elementalist/necro and get the greater versions of the pets.
    Last edited by Ydyp; 03-18-2011 at 02:15 AM.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    I'm thinking of going farther into elem with my SC spec but some of the mid/high tier talents are essentially pet buffs. If the pets are ok then it's not a waste, but if the elem pets are just trash all around for dps then I might consider other souls.

    Now that you mention it anyone have much experience with the water elemental, pros, cons, worth it, etc?

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    the air elem actually isn't that bad later on. the problem is you need to use crystalline missiles to make it do anything. crystalline missiles is absolutely horrendous for damage.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Ydyp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeroburrito View Post
    the air elem actually isn't that bad later on. the problem is you need to use crystalline missiles to make it do anything. crystalline missiles is absolutely horrendous for damage.
    Same as plague bolt of necro. The other baseline skills you get from other souls deal a lot more dmg. Guess the lowered the dmg of those 2 because of the added effect that increase petdmg.

  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    I tested them rather deeply already:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...uggested-Fixes.

    The difference at level 50 is even wider. The zealot puts out almost 250 single target with minimal babysitting, with babysitting and buffs it can almost do 300. The revenant puts out 80-100 dps per target being aoed, up to 400-500 in a maxed out situation with babysitting. The air elemental puts out about 80 dps single and the token aoe isn't even worth considering "dps" since it is only a spike. If you babysit the air elemental it can do 150 max, but you will more than lose the 70 dps you gained due to a crappy rotation/pet buff spells.

    The tanks still have their mysterious discrepancy. 2.5 times more damage for necro tank than elem tank.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ydyp View Post
    Same as plague bolt of necro. The other baseline skills you get from other souls deal a lot more dmg. Guess the lowered the dmg of those 2 because of the added effect that increase petdmg.
    The big difference here is that necro isn't forced to use plague bolt. You can instead drop a grave rot for 5 stacks in one GCD, then go back to void bolt or soul purge or whatever you'd rather be casting.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    I guess I can assume the water elemental dmg isn't even worth mentioning, is it useful in pvp tho?

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    Well I went ahead, fresh lvl 50 and tried my elemental pets against the training test dummy in Sanctum. Each fight went roughly 10 minutes (except the fire elementals, for obvious reasons). Here are the results. First the pets just on their own.

    Earth pet:
    Code:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
                                                             Sokrates                                                          |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
          Ability        |  Hits   | Misses  | Accuracy % |  Crits  |  Crit %  |   Min   |   Max   | Average |  Total  |   %   |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Earthquake           |      29 |       0 |      100.0 |       0 |      0.0 |     152 |     157 |     154 |    4486 |  13.3 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Pulverize            |      37 |       0 |      100.0 |       1 |      2.7 |     139 |     217 |     143 |    5315 |  15.7 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Thud                 |     102 |       0 |      100.0 |       2 |      2.0 |      82 |     129 |      84 |    8620 |  25.5 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Auto Attack          |     207 |       0 |      100.0 |       8 |      3.9 |      73 |     109 |      74 |   15399 |  45.5 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
        Total Damage     |                                           33820 - 55 DPS                                            |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Air pet:
    Code:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
                                                              Seneca                                                           |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
          Ability        |  Hits   | Misses  | Accuracy % |  Crits  |  Crit %  |   Min   |   Max   | Average |  Total  |   %   |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Ball Lightning       |      28 |       0 |      100.0 |       1 |      3.6 |     275 |     462 |     307 |    8598 |  18.9 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Lightning Bolt       |     194 |       0 |      100.0 |      12 |      6.2 |     166 |     283 |     189 |   36775 |  81.1 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
        Total Damage     |                                           45373 - 74 DPS                                            |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Water pet:
    Code:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
                                                            Sophocles                                                          |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
          Ability        |  Hits   | Misses  | Accuracy % |  Crits  |  Crit %  |   Min   |   Max   | Average |  Total  |   %   |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Ice Bolt             |     263 |       0 |      100.0 |      17 |      6.5 |     122 |     189 |     128 |   33672 | 100.0 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
        Total Damage     |                                           33672 - 53 DPS                                            |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    And finally, the fire pet(s):
    Code:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
                                                          Fire Elemental                                                       |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
          Ability        |  Hits   | Misses  | Accuracy % |  Crits  |  Crit %  |   Min   |   Max   | Average |  Total  |   %   |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Fireball             |      35 |       0 |      100.0 |       8 |     22.9 |     190 |     295 |     216 |    7582 | 100.0 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
        Total Damage     |                                           7582 - 315 DPS                                            |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    The fire pet results are a bit misleading, because i used ignite to trigger them to attack...so their crit rate, and thus damage, is higher than it should be.

    Now some results with me trying to keep up crystalline missile and ignite buffs for the pets:

    Air pet:
    Code:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
                                                              Seneca                                                           |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
          Ability        |  Hits   | Misses  | Accuracy % |  Crits  |  Crit %  |   Min   |   Max   | Average |  Total  |   %   |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Ball Lightning       |      29 |       0 |      100.0 |      14 |     48.3 |     426 |     725 |     527 |   15301 |  19.8 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Lightning Bolt       |     194 |       0 |      100.0 |      78 |     40.2 |     182 |     444 |     319 |   61907 |  80.2 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
        Total Damage     |                                           77208 - 125 DPS                                           |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Earth pet:
    Code:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
                                                             Sokrates                                                          |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
          Ability        |  Hits   | Misses  | Accuracy % |  Crits  |  Crit %  |   Min   |   Max   | Average |  Total  |   %   |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Earthquake           |      29 |       0 |      100.0 |       8 |     27.6 |     153 |     352 |     234 |    6793 |  15.2 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Pulverize            |      36 |       0 |      100.0 |      12 |     33.3 |     143 |     325 |     241 |    8696 |  19.5 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Thud                 |     102 |       0 |      100.0 |      30 |     29.4 |      82 |     193 |     136 |   13907 |  31.1 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    Auto Attack          |     205 |       0 |      100.0 |       8 |      3.9 |      73 |     109 |      74 |   15253 |  34.2 |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
        Total Damage     |                                           44649 - 73 DPS                                            |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    I skipped the water pet here, but as you can see it does near the same damage as the earth pet, so with the buffs its damage would also be in the 75ish dps range.

    So there you go. For the records, my gear is pretty crappy, and since pets scale a bit with it these values should be higher for better equipped elementalists. Anyway, here are some pet stats:

    Earth pet:
    182 AP
    123 Crit (4,66%)
    39 Hit

    Air pet:
    287 SP
    195 SC (7,39%)
    39 Focus

    Water pet:
    237 SP
    195 SC
    39 Focus

    Notice the missing 50 SP buff on the water elemental. It looks like focus of the elementalist is transfered 1:1 on the pets (focus for the caster pets, hit for the tank pet). AP and SP, as well as crit are only a part of the mages values tho.
    Last edited by Sarim; 03-21-2011 at 11:24 AM.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser
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    My air pet with
    288SP
    251SC
    44 Focus

    over a 22 minute parse did 74.81dps on the boss dummy, by himself, casting Electrify.

    Over a 24 minute parse with me using 2x Crystalline Missiles + Ignite + Icy Carapace whenever it was up, and using Channel Elements to regain mana:

    1426 seconds

    Ball Lightning
    33172dmg. 67 hits, 18 crits. extDPS: 23.262
    Lightning Bolt
    137638dmg. 423 hits, 163 crits. extDPS: 96.520

    Pet total DPS: 119.782 for a gain of 60.1% DPS from base.

    I kept the buffs up the majority of the time but it was not actually possible to guarantee that the Velocity buff would stay up even when I was allowing for no other spells in the cast pattern. Obviously Icy Carapace wasn't necessary for the rotation, but I threw it in as a normalizing factor, as no mage in his right mind would be expected to spam 2 spells ad infinitum. In other words, spending almost literally ALL of your time casting weak spells that benefit the pet, you gain, maximally, a 60% return on a pet which does about 75 DPS, for a rough total of 300 DPS with pet + elementalist (unbuffed, except for electrify.)

    Now, if I had clicked Intensify every time it was up and maintained Exposure, that would be another 12.5% bonus to pet DPS (Intensify, 15s/2m*100%) + 7% or 19.5%. Again assuming a base of 74.81dps, that results in 134.359dps if all buffs are maintained, which, as said, takes pretty much all of your time. You might be able to sneak some more in there, but certainly not anything with a cast time.

    In other words, you have to neglect your pet DPS to raise your total DPS, and if you're going to do that, why not just pick another soul? Unless pet DPS is adjusted SHARPLY upwards, the Elementalist soul is useless for DPS and depending on the way area healing works, might become a liability even if your group/raid is willing to accept extremely sub-par DPS. And when I say sharply I mean +300-500%. At +400% base damage increase and gaining the +~80% from spending 90+% of your time casting pet buffing spells we're still only talking 538.8dps coming from the pet, which is still only a little more than half of what Champ/BM/Para is pulling off in crap gear. (Yes, that spec is a broken exploit and is being nerfed.) So even with pets doing FOUR TIMES the base damage they do now, and assuming that raid gear turns Crystalline Missiles, Ignite and Icy Carapace into 10,000lbs Paveway Cratering Munitions and triples the personal DPS of the elementalist from ~200 to ~600... We're only talking 1150dps, tops... Which well geared DPS warriors already do... Right now.

    Bottom Line: Time to go back to the drawing board, folks. Elementalist needs a MASSIVE revamp.
    Last edited by Dorai; 03-25-2011 at 03:20 AM.

  11. #11
    General of Telara Relair's Avatar
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    Theres a thread where a guy posted his lvl 50 zealot vs dummy parse and it wasn't amazingly awesome compared to air pet like people say. 90dps unassisted, 161 with 3 debuffs kept up constantly, compared to your 74 and 125 with 2 debuffs kept up for air pet. And air elemental definitely does more dmg than necro mage pet as well. It'd be nice for all pets to get a little boost, except that damn BM cat he does enough already :P

  12. #12
    Plane Touched xarael's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't get why my earth elemental can take a beating and then I see a necromancer rolling with his tank pet out and its getting melted by melee every time. And I thought from close examination of both soul's pets that basically they're identical with minor changes (mostly names and slight stat shifts).

  13. #13
    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Necro: Mediocre caster that requires it's pet to do a significant portion of it's DPS, and is largely gimped without the pet.

    Elementalist: Stronger nuke caster with added pet for a slight increase in DPS.

    I will admit elementalists need some love, but it should be in the nuke department. If ele pets are put on par with necro pets, then necro becomes a pointless class.
    Last edited by TheLeviathan; 03-25-2011 at 05:50 AM.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

  14. #14
    Plane Touched xarael's Avatar
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    I agree. I would rather have something like the 51 point elementalist spell as the elemental we would get at various levels. Maybe I'm too old and remember playing my summoner character from FF2 (US), but I loved the idea of using a large amount of mana to bring in a specific elemental type critter to demolish mobs from time to time rather than having what we get now which is babysitter duty on a pet. >_>

  15. #15
    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xarael View Post
    I agree. I would rather have something like the 51 point elementalist spell as the elemental we would get at various levels. Maybe I'm too old and remember playing my summoner character from FF2 (US), but I loved the idea of using a large amount of mana to bring in a specific elemental type critter to demolish mobs from time to time rather than having what we get now which is babysitter duty on a pet. >_>
    I would really get a kick out of seeing elementalist reworked to mimick the DAOC turret pet class myself. (Animist I think?) Allow the elementalist to summon pets bound in a summoning circle. They can't move from the circle, but you could set up multiple pets, and they act as damage turrets, aoe buff/debuff pets, etc. Would make the elementalist stand out completely from necro and give it a much more unique playstyle.

    I dunno, just a brain storm. *puts on protective flame gear from incomming elementalist hate*
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

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