+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Tentative Archon Guide

  1. #1
    Shadowlander Seihk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    42

    Default Tentative Archon Guide

    Introduction

    Hello mages! I play a 51 Archon / 15 Pyromancer build currently and I have to say that I'm really enjoying it! I think that every raid will want one Archon, therefore it's worth you looking into Archon to at least consider picking up the build. I'm not super experienced yet, but I've been able to test out Archon a bit and have really liked it so far, for utility alone.

    A quick note, I don't really touch on our 5-minute buffs in this guide because I assume that you can all manage to keep those up before a fight. These buffs are Shared Vigor - Vitality of Stone - Arcane Aegis - Burning Purpose - Tempered Armor. These spells should be cast right before a pull so that you can hopefully avoid having to cast them during the fight (5 global cooldowns! Yikes, that can kill a rotation!)

    FAQ

    Do Archon buffs stack with other, similar buffs?
    It would appear that they do, currently. The group comp I run with in my experts is Warrior Tank (I think he's Reaver / Pally) - Bard Support - Cleric Healer (mostly sentinel I think) - Ranged Rogue DPS (I think he's ranger + sab?) - Archon Support. The reason I spelled that out is that there are a few buffs that Archon's bring that are brought by other classes. Shared Vigor stacked with an endurance buff, Living Bomb stacked with the bard equivalent...yadda yadda. Basically; our buffs are useful no matter what group we're running with.


    Do our debuffs stack with other similar effects?
    No, not at this point in time. Crumbling Resistance did not stack with the Bard-equivalent spell, and I'd imagine it wouldn't stack with the Elementalist Summoner's debuff either. Therefore, if you are running an Archon build and want to be most efficient in a raid setting, communicate with your other guildies that they should use other spells.

    Should Archon go Support/DPS or Support/Heals?
    I would imagine that Support/Heals is viable, unless your group or raid already has a Chloromancer. You get 15 points to spend into another tree, so that can net some nice gains from the Chloromancer tree. I think that down the road it might be more viable to have a 1-healer group with a 51 Archon / 15 Chloro, but right now I'm leaning towards Support/DPS.

    Can Archon's do good damage?
    I feel as though we will be able to put out decent numbers. I do more damage than my Chloromancer build, but I'd imagine that Archon's won't ever be top dps on a fight (and if they were that'd be nerf-worthy in my book).


    Why Pyromancer secondary? Why not X?
    I'm sure there are other viable options with Archon, but Pyromancer has some very nice synergy with the Archon soul. My primary "nuke" spell that I cast as an Archon is actually Fireball because it does more damage than other spells of its nature. Also, currently I have 0 mana problems thanks to Improved Grounding (provided I can stand in the ground for more than like 10 seconds). Putting 15 points into Pyromancer gives me 14 points of raw damage increasing and 1 point into Flicker for improved mobility.


    What is the Archon rotation?
    I'm sure you've heard this sentence before, but I'll put it here as well: it's more of a priority system than a rotation. I'll list them below in order of importance:
    • Volcanic Bomb / Surging Flare / Earthen Barrage
    • Crumbling Resistance / Lingering Dust (Only needs to be cast once every 5 minutes!)
    • Fireball

    Some might ask why I haven't put Pillaging Stone or Rock Slide into the rotation, so my answer is that I'm not 100% sure the best way to go about using them. During an expert run I basically get 5 stacks of Pillaging Stone and full stacks of Rock Slide up early on, and then just refresh as needed. For a raid boss, I think I'd probably replace Fireball with Pillaging Stone until at max, and probably try to use Rock Slide as fast as possible so I can start using my charge for Power Drain.

    The rotation might seem a bit tough when looking at it, but in actuality it's quite simple. Most of the time you don't have to cast anything other than your buffs on cooldown and spam fireball in the mix. One thing to note is that Surging Flare only has a 10 second cooldown, as opposed to Volcanic Bomb and Earthen Barrage which have 15 second cooldowns. This is only worth noting because it means that you won't really have a rotation (well...if you don't have to move and can just spam cast you ultimately have a 2cycle rotation that I'm not going to type out for fear of confusing everyone...myself included lol), so you've really just got to watch your cooldowns and hit those buttons asap.


    What about Power Drain, when do I use that?
    Power Drain is a phenomenal cooldown. Not only does it lower the bosses damage by 10% while active, but it also increases your damage by 10%. If you're at 100 Charge when you cast it, you'll be buffed (and he boss will be debuffed) for approximately 15 seconds. It is best to line this up after you've just finished casting your 3 damage+buff spells (Volcanic Bomb, Earthen Barrage, Surging Flare) so that you can maximize Fireball usage during the buff. But don't be strictly limited to using it as a damage buff, because it's also an awesome defensive cooldown. When I first step in to a raid I plan on using it everytime my charge hits 100 just to help smooth out incoming tank damage.


    So always spend your Charge on Power Drain?
    Not necessarily! Rock Slide also uses charge, but should only be cast once every 5 minutes...so don't forget that spell. But more importantly, we have another amazing cooldown which is very similar to Bloodlust / Heroism (from that game that we should never admit to having played!), it's called Flaring Power. Flaring Power gives everyone in the raid 15% spell power and attack power for 20 seconds. One very important thing to note...do NOT use it unless you have 80+ Charge or else it will cancel early! This spell should be called out for by the raid leader if needed, but in an expert dungeon you can use it on every boss, just try to time it well enough that most people will get a good benefit from it.


    And what about Waning Power?
    Waning Power is the uppermost talent point in the Archon soul and it's also a decent cooldown. It's not game-breaking, but it should definitely get some love and usage. It's best to use it right before you use Power Drain so that you can get a few Power Drains off during it's uptime. The buff lasts a minute, so you can probably get 3-4 power drains off in that timeframe, helping to buff your damage by a nice chunk.


    Is it worth recasting a ground of power if you have to move out of yours?
    That depends on how often you have to move, but 10% fire damage is a big dps increase! For a 1.2 second cast, I'd say it's worth putting into your priority list right over Fireball.
    Let him who desires peace prepare for war.
    - | - | - Ellessia, Dwarven Guardian - | - | -

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Archon buffs stack with 1hr and lower buffs, but not till canceled buffs.

    The only instances where there should be much issue is with Bards and Shamans. I ask Shamans not to run a courage or heart (their buffs). Courages give 30 to one stat and overrid Vitality of Stone which gives 26 (talented). VoS is better for a group because it will benifit more people. Hearts either give 30 elemental or 30 Life and Death, Arcane Agesis is 26 to all. If you are in a dungeon with only 1 damage type than the Hearts are better, but I can't imagine that 4 points is that important and so your personal gains of casting speed, damage, and mana cost probably out weight it (maybe not in a 10 man raid...). I also tell Shamans to use Vengance of Winter Storm instead of Vengance of Piercing Cold, because VoPC is the same as Ashen Defense. I figure Shamans are DPS and Archons are buff/debuff, so let them use the DPS skills and I will do the debuffing.

    For bards it depends how far into Bard they are. If they are under 32, then their armor or resist Anthem is better than an Archon aura. But they could use the run speed buff and the party would lose 2 resist and I think around 20 armor. If they are 32 or up they should run Fervor (10% mana/energy/power cost), but if you have a Chloromancer healer maybe still use run speed. Bards should also use Fanfare of Power and let someone else use a 1hr Endurance buff (I actually run 51Archon/15Warlock, so I do the 1hr endurance myself).

    Warlord aspects aren't as good as Archon auras as far as I know, so no problem there. They do have similar debuffs and buffs... Flaring Power is easier to use then Assault Command. As for their other calls... I don't know if they stack or not. Most of them read as if they do (Spotter's Order adds extra damage to hits, whereas Ashen Defense increase the damage taken).

    Hope that helps your guide. Please expand on it if you see something wrong or no something else.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Looks like a great guide so far! However I just have one question...
    Why all 51 points in Archon?
    The build I intend to be using at 50 is Archon/Pyro/Dom, 44/22/0. At the moment (admittedly, level 45, so unsure how things scale up at 50) I can spam my buttons at a practice dummy and never go oom. I don't have a parser so... Unfortunately don't have dps numbers.
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...cz.AMjsRfbqkrz <-- My intended build

    I currently have a macro that looks like this (it casts the first spell in the list which is off cooldown)
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Waning Power
    cast Leeching Flames
    cast Volcanic Bomb
    cast Earthen Barrage
    cast Surging Flare
    cast Inferno
    cast Countdown
    cast Flame Bolt
    cast Fireball

    Cinder Burst procs would be noticeable because of the reactionary ability bar...
    I also try to keep the Searing Vitality DoT up, not sure if that's actually a dps increase or not.
    And I 5-minute buff/debuff and use charge how you described.
    Thoughts? Opinions? xD

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelacalle View Post
    Looks like a great guide so far! However I just have one question...
    Why all 51 points in Archon?
    The build I intend to be using at 50 is Archon/Pyro/Dom, 44/22/0. At the moment (admittedly, level 45, so unsure how things scale up at 50) I can spam my buttons at a practice dummy and never go oom. I don't have a parser so... Unfortunately don't have dps numbers.
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...cz.AMjsRfbqkrz <-- My intended build

    I currently have a macro that looks like this (it casts the first spell in the list which is off cooldown)
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Waning Power
    cast Leeching Flames
    cast Volcanic Bomb
    cast Earthen Barrage
    cast Surging Flare
    cast Inferno
    cast Countdown
    cast Flame Bolt
    cast Fireball

    Cinder Burst procs would be noticeable because of the reactionary ability bar...
    I also try to keep the Searing Vitality DoT up, not sure if that's actually a dps increase or not.
    And I 5-minute buff/debuff and use charge how you described.
    Thoughts? Opinions? xD
    Burning Purpose

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    155

    Default

    This guide is pretty fail. Spamming a nuke with no debuff while spec'd 51 for burning purpose...?

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Scourge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    449

    Default

    At 51, you'll be dropping the pyro spec guaranteed. Fireball cannot hold up to Pillaging Stone + Burning Purpose, and the off healing provided by the chloro, along with the additional damage from Entropic Veil) is vastly superior to to 15 points in any other soul. Radiant Spores also turns into a damaging AoE. If you're not 51 archon, then I don't know how to help you. At 50, most healers are either Purifier or Sentinel, both of which rely on 3 second cast times to heal the boss. Burning Purpose shaves off .3 seconds from their heal, which has huge implications on the efficacy of those heals. The instant cast cleanse from chloro is also incredible and your healer will love you for it. They really don't have time to be wasting 1.5s GCDs trying to cleanse people.

    TL;DR: 51 ARC/15 CHL outperforms 44 ARC/22 PYR in every way.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander Phelsior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maxvla View Post
    This guide is pretty fail. Spamming a nuke with no debuff while spec'd 51 for burning purpose...?
    Pretty fail? That's kinda harsh for someone who is obviously trying to help out his fellow mages. Why don't you write a guide if it's such a big fail, or a least come up with something more productive. Me, I'd love to hear more about how mages with experience in Archon play. Including your view.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched Mahkra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scourge View Post
    At 51, you'll be dropping the pyro spec guaranteed. Fireball cannot hold up to Pillaging Stone + Burning Purpose, and the off healing provided by the chloro, along with the additional damage from Entropic Veil) is vastly superior to to 15 points in any other soul. Radiant Spores also turns into a damaging AoE. If you're not 51 archon, then I don't know how to help you. At 50, most healers are either Purifier or Sentinel, both of which rely on 3 second cast times to heal the boss. Burning Purpose shaves off .3 seconds from their heal, which has huge implications on the efficacy of those heals. The instant cast cleanse from chloro is also incredible and your healer will love you for it. They really don't have time to be wasting 1.5s GCDs trying to cleanse people.

    TL;DR: 51 ARC/15 CHL outperforms 44 ARC/22 PYR in every way.
    could you post your build?

  9. #9
    Shadowlander Seihk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelacalle View Post
    Looks like a great guide so far! However I just have one question...
    Why all 51 points in Archon?
    The reason we want 51 points into Archon is for Burning Purpose, which gives everyone a permenant 10% haste. No other class (to my knowledge) can provide this buff, and therefore every raid will want one Archon to fill that role.
    Let him who desires peace prepare for war.
    - | - | - Ellessia, Dwarven Guardian - | - | -

  10. #10
    Shadowlander Seihk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maxvla View Post
    This guide is pretty fail. Spamming a nuke with no debuff while spec'd 51 for burning purpose...?
    As I stated in the priority list, Fireball is only used when you have your buffs on cooldown and your debuffs on the boss. I'm also not sure why you think Burning Purpose is bad, because it's absolutely amazing.

    Most of our nukes with debuffs attached have a 5minute duration on the debuff, so there is no need to spam them unless they outperform Fireball (which may be the case with better gear than what I'm using, just not true for me yet).
    Let him who desires peace prepare for war.
    - | - | - Ellessia, Dwarven Guardian - | - | -

  11. #11
    Shadowlander Seihk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Maxvla has pointed out a very serious flaw in my guide, and it took me a bit of re-reading tooltips to figure out what he meant.

    Burning Purpose (the 51 point talent in the Archon tree) adds extra damage to every spell that you cast that has a debuff on the boss. Therefore, my parse was saying my Pillaging Stone was doing X damage and my fireball was doing X damage, but only Pillaging Stone gets another X amount of damage from Burning Purpose.

    I'm going to repost the guide to correct this issue. Thanks Maxvla, I should have done more pre-emptive work before posting this guide.
    Let him who desires peace prepare for war.
    - | - | - Ellessia, Dwarven Guardian - | - | -

  12. #12
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    77

    Default

    If you want higher DPS, I'd actually sub necro rather than pyro and use plague bolt as your filler nuke. The 2 stacks of DC it applies triggers burning purpose twice, giving it 3 hits of damage per cast. You also get grave rot which triggers burning purpose in an aoe for pretty impressive damage.

    Personally I have warlock subbed currently, as the extra charge means more power drain uptime. I'm considering doing a 51 arch / 4 lock / 11 necro build though. Bit less charge, but gives grave rot for AOE power

  13. #13
    Shadowlander Seihk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinburger View Post
    If you want higher DPS, I'd actually sub necro rather than pyro and use plague bolt as your filler nuke. The 2 stacks of DC it applies triggers burning purpose twice, giving it 3 hits of damage per cast. You also get grave rot which triggers burning purpose in an aoe for pretty impressive damage.

    Personally I have warlock subbed currently, as the extra charge means more power drain uptime. I'm considering doing a 51 arch / 4 lock / 11 necro build though. Bit less charge, but gives grave rot for AOE power
    I'll deffintely have to check out Necro. I swapped from Pyro to 51 Archon / 10 Warlock / 5 Elem Summoner because I wasn't factoring in Burning Purpose's damage.
    Let him who desires peace prepare for war.
    - | - | - Ellessia, Dwarven Guardian - | - | -

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seihk View Post
    The reason we want 51 points into Archon is for Burning Purpose, which gives everyone a permenant 10% haste. No other class (to my knowledge) can provide this buff, and therefore every raid will want one Archon to fill that role.
    Oh damn lol, I misread it. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I'm an idiot xD
    I read it as, "reduces the casting speed" rather than "reduces the casting time".

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phelsior View Post
    Pretty fail? That's kinda harsh for someone who is obviously trying to help out his fellow mages. Why don't you write a guide if it's such a big fail, or a least come up with something more productive. Me, I'd love to hear more about how mages with experience in Archon play. Including your view.
    I pointed in the right direction for people to figure it out, which they did. The less we talk about it the less chance of getting nerfed.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts