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Thread: All mages are worthless in pvp

  1. #31
    Soulwalker
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    cc immune? no not more than any other class.(chloro get a snare immune spell near the top of the tree)
    Ground of Strength.

    Imo the only HALF DECENT PVP spec we have, and even then its not great, the damage we do for being a 'squishy' class, is just uncomparable to a equal geared Rogue/Warrior.

    Do love those 3.4k Fulminate Crits though :x

    INB4STEALTHGOSNERF
    Last edited by Wooley; 03-12-2011 at 08:37 AM.

  2. #32
    Telaran Greezelet's Avatar
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    I hope the QQ train gets us buffed because I'm already destroying every class 1v1 and always finish top 5 in damage and killing blows in war fronts. I still die. A lot. but hey, that's a mage. To many tears because kids can't kill everyone they encounter, every time. I'm just worried about the mage nerfs that will closely follow the mage buffs.

    Necro/lock/cloro

  3. #33
    General of Telara Sarathor's Avatar
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    At level 50, and all my cooldowns and procs and self buffs align just right, I can get a 2.2k crit off of cinder burst, but you need to be the son/daughter of the RNG god for that.

    Sarathor@Byriel Rank 7 Defiant Mage - retired
    Bonqueequee@Byriel Rank 1 Guardian Rogue

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greezelet View Post
    I hope the QQ train gets us buffed because I'm already destroying every class 1v1 and always finish top 5 in damage and killing blows in war fronts. I still die. A lot. but hey, that's a mage. To many tears because kids can't kill everyone they encounter, every time. I'm just worried about the mage nerfs that will closely follow the mage buffs.

    Necro/lock/cloro
    And im worried they will listen to warrs and rogues that come on here claiming they do amaisngly at pvp while not posting builds or rotations, Some mages can win 1v1 easilly, such as domi by locking people down but no other build can always win 1v1 (even domis wont always do it) thanks to rogues and warrs doing way more damage and the HUGE HUGE HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE array of stuns in this game. And ofc WFs means nothing... at 42 I can more often than not get in the top 5 as well and even the top in both but thats just cos I sick back aoeing and dotting people while I get ignored cos nobody can be bothered killling the low damage worthless mage.


    Right now mages are CC machines thats it, but ofc they are nerfing our CC for some reason... so soon we will be machines... but with no purpose

  5. #35
    Rift Chaser NerfedWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristoph View Post
    Pull your head out of your ***. You think warriors have more than 2-3 good PvP specs? Majority of them are complete jokes, can't kill anything due to lack of CC so you get kited all day. Riftblade is good at lower levels, Champion/Paragon at higher levels, almost everything else is worthless and completely dependent on their team. Tanks? Useless without healers. AOE specs? Useless if the enemy team has one healer/bard. Paragon/beastmaster main? No CC. Void Knight? You want to empty HP bars, not 1 or 2 MP bars per minute.


    There's no other class equal to my level that can hit me for 500-1000 damage noncrit consistently. While you're often squirrel'd or unable to CC them anyway. You have no clue what you're talking about. Try playing a warrior and doing well in PvP without using riftblade/champion. Though champions are still useless for 30 levels if they don't have a pocket healer.
    do you play this game?

  6. #36
    Telaran
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    Styyx,

    I dinged to 21 and there has been a patch. I have an Int of 96 Wisdom of 34 1139 hps and 238AC, 1377mana. I also have 5 points in Planar Attunment for +15% vs opponents and +171 Spell power. I also have a 7.66% spell crit chance. In PVP my fireball was just hitting for 190 average, Flame Bolt 145 and Firestorm 135 a pulse.


    So, I am up to about 100 damage per second.

  7. #37
    Soulwalker
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    I play domi/warlock split and just hit 33. In world PvP if I play perfectly every calling besides mage actually has a pretty good chance of beating me.

    After all of my CC is down on a cleric, the cleric can just heal up the measly damage I did. (If he used a HoT before I CCd he probably is near full health.) At this point, if I was able to get his mana to 0 he either uses a mana potion and does superior DoT damage to my warlock as an inquisitor, or even more pathetic, he just snares me with humility and auto attacks me to death with his hammer. Only needing to cast an HoT every 30 seconds or so.

    With a warrior, if I manage to survive all of his instant and teleporty CC, I really don't have a chance in hell of burning through all of his HP before he burns through mine. My victories in world PvP against warriors basically boil down to me luring him to mobs or knocking him back into guards.

    By level 33 1v1ing rogues isn't quite as scary as it was. I'm not sure what build it is, but there is one soul that can actually silence me for about 12 seconds straight with 2 different skills while I just stand there taking hits for 400.

    Last night for the first time I considered just deleting my mage. I had spent like 15 seconds climbing up a rock in the falls WF. "Now I only have to worry about ranged." Once the enemy team got in range, a warrior instantly teleported up the rock face and started wailing on me for 500-800 hits a piece while I was stunned. Sweet.

    Transmogrify was obviously overpowered.

  8. #38
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinoSS View Post
    You can't just take your PVE roles into a PVP environment and expect to succeed. Make an actually pvp build.
    Totally agree with that. Your role need to build for PvP and don't expect your contribution to be only in the damage area. While I agree with the general opinion that some souls need to be buff and some other classes soul need to some balance, a mage in PvP needs to know his role and be more intelligent that other "easier" souls. I don't think Rift is made to play with only one role, you need to adjust to situation. DPS when needed, Dominator against team with a lots of caster/healer or Chloromancer when your team need healers. Again don't expect your pve Chloromancer to be good in PvP, sometime you need to lower your damage/healing capability for more survivability.

    With that build I'm rarely not the first in the damage chart:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zwv0.x0c.cfMIoVqxk.x

    http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/5...0307230238.jpg
    http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/9...0312005515.jpg

    The key points are:
    - Be aware of your environement, use fear/detaunt/Wither on warrior/rogue before they come to you or choke or detaunt on range dps as soon that they target you.
    - Outside the CC this build has a lot of survivability, with Neddra's Esssence, Mortality and Shadow life you can tank a couple warrior/rogue and that leave time to your team to help you kill them.
    - Time well your Dark Touch, Neddra's Grasp and Radiant Death combo.
    - Totally abuse of Devouring Shadows and Mortally for huge damage number, those AoE are also good to negate the heal over time from the opposing healer and that give a lot of room from your melees teammate to finish the target.
    - Hide behind something to use Reconstruct and regain mana when needed.

    A pure dominator build:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zys0.V.xsVubkoMfk.x

    The key points are:
    - Don't expect this build to top the damage chart but expect to cause major mayhem in the enemies backline
    - A well played dominator can be game changing, I often switch to that role in the middle of a warfront if I see that our team have trouble killing because of the opposing healer. I saw a game going from 10 to 360 to 500 to 380 after I switch to that build.
    - Like the first one this build has a lot of CC but less survivability and CC need to be used in a pro-active way
    - If you have someone on close range use the 2 pushback skill to give you some time.
    - Abuse Reflecting presence and Arresting presence.
    - This build can easily kill solo healer and mage, the crit rate and fast casting of Neural Prod give you enough damage.
    - Drain mana but not at the expense of your shutdown abilities.
    - A well timed Storm Shackle can do a lot of damage.

    The last build
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zqR0.Vx.idIhVV00Ro.

    I still toying with that build and I'm not sure it's completed for what I want to achieve with it. But the concept is the same as others build in PvP, survivability!

    Common things to all build.
    - Help your healer with everything you have.

    Those build are not perfect and I'm not always playing them perfectly. It can be sometime frustrating playing against some specific soul but don't forgot to analyse what you have done wrong and improve.
    Last edited by maqloner; 03-12-2011 at 09:54 AM.

  9. #39
    Telaran
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    First in damage charts is not impressive to me...at 21 I can be in the top 3 in the 20-30 WF.

    My AOE automatically puts me way up on the charts. The question should be, is that dps doing anything to change the PVP battle. For my pyro mage, nope, people can ignore my damage with one healer for the whole group.

    I might be tops in damage, but I am still not doing enough damage to drop people when it counts.

  10. #40
    Telaran
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    I don't agree. Today I fought against a ?? mage with my 24 justicar. I couldn't do anything against him, he did some weird silence or stun on me and then I was pretty much dead.

  11. #41
    Rift Disciple Comunique's Avatar
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    If you're going to link to screenshots of how awesome mages are then at least do it right.


    http://i.imgur.com/ncYMV.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/CBZbE.jpg

    In for more 'omgIlinkedpicturesofmagesowningsotheymustbeoverpo wered' screenshots that are probably better than the ones I linked.
    Last edited by Comunique; 03-12-2011 at 10:16 AM.

  12. #42
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comunique View Post
    If you're going to link to screenshots of how awesome mages are then at least do it right.


    http://i.imgur.com/ncYMV.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/CBZbE.jpg

    In for more 'omgIlinkedpicturesofmagesowningsotheymustbeoverpo wered' screenshots that are probably better than the ones I linked.
    I'm too lazy to explain to you why high total damage charts aren't meaningful, especially when we all know that a warrior or rogue can drop people like a bag of bricks. What mages do that is useful on WF is not damage. Sure, a 44 pyro can do good damage, but warriors and rogues do at least that with much higher armor and HP, so it's not an advantage. It's "Look guys I don't suck that bad!"

    Split between dominator and warlock at level 33 I have fear, transmogrify, instant stun, 2sec cast time root, 1.5 second cast time snare, mana wrench, and an AOE to keep people from picking up the flag in WF. This makes the build really useful, but other callings can get about as much CC and still have armor/hp/DPS.

    Least I got mana burn? (Which I would not be surprised if it got nerfed.)

  13. #43
    Rift Disciple Comunique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saikron View Post
    I'm too lazy to explain to you why high total damage charts aren't meaningful, especially when we all know that a warrior or rogue can drop people like a bag of bricks. What mages do that is useful on WF is not damage. Sure, a 44 pyro can do good damage, but warriors and rogues do at least that with much higher armor and HP, so it's not an advantage. It's "Look guys I don't suck that bad!"
    You apparently missed the sarcasm in my post.

    P.S. I don't do that much firestorming because it generally gets no where with the healing our guardians do in our cluster.
    P.S.S. Not having GoS at 50 means you are screwed in PvP. One blue beam across the battlefield will mark you for the rest of the match. Every rogue and warrior will be on you faster than you can hit neddra's essence.
    Last edited by Comunique; 03-12-2011 at 11:01 AM.

  14. #44
    Soulwalker
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    I played a lot of PvP the last days and first I thought "holy ****, mages suck in this game" as well, but then I reached Rank 2 (Corporal) and everything changed. Even my Stormcaller Build works and I am dealing ****loads of damage without dying. First, look at the Build:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z....y0xt0tss0R.EV

    The offensive Key role in this build is Lightning Field, just cast Arctic Blast or Hailstorm, 3 Forked, hit Flux and let them burn! Even against solo targets LF is king, but in order to save mana, use Icicle and Thunderstorm instead of the AE pendants.

    Defensive is also great, our mostly feared enemy, the warrior, is no harm anymore. You have countless knockbacks and awesome slow effects, together with runic shield (this skill makes pvp a lot easier, no matter which build you use) and flicker, you will be the last to die.

    Just be strong and grind your way to "corporal", it will get better, I promise.

  15. #45
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    I'm not a mage but I have played around with a high level mage toon and have my own mage at level 24 or so.

    Why has'nt anyone picked up or discussed the age old reason why mages are ranged in the first place??

    Mages were always ranged, and always the nemesis of warriors due to burning through armour, dishing out high DPS, CC and kiting.

    In Rift the gap between Mage and Warrior is so much smaller, whats worse is that the Kings of CC are not Mages its warriors or rogues.

    Stun > transmogrify
    Charge + Snare > Knockback
    Mid range range attack > long cast time nuke
    Large health pool > small health pool
    Instant cast AOE fear chained to stun + high damage > transmogrify + fireball

    The introduction of ranged attacks from such highly defensive characters, not to mention their high damage (on at least a few of their specs) renders the whole point of being mage next to useless.

    Mages should be the the destroyers of warriors, die by rogues and should be able to CC kill a cleric (Which they can do, because my main is cleric and I die all the time against good players).

    Half the skills these days are unacceptable CC, like whats the point of rooting someone when they can just shoot you at range anyway and theirs is instant cast which not only does high damage but reduces your cast time when it hits you??

    The effects of these problems multiplies as they stack onto the mage, that is why the mage is the most difficult class to play at the moment, and the most difficult to play well.

    Mages gave up their health, armour, general mitigation, so that they can be masters of wrath, domination or conjuration, and now spiteful healing.

    But when another class gives up less and gains more (a warrior class thats high damage and ranged has a huuuuge advantage with minimal disadvantages) it destroys the balance that used to co-exist between classes.

    TBH as it is now, mages classes should'nt really exist. They give up way to much for the rubbish they get in return. They should be re-rolled into some thing with high HP and high magic resistance, have magical armour that fades after being beat on for a while and allows casting to not be interrupted until it totally fades.

    Classic mage class does not exist anymore in Rift because classic warriors/rogues/clerics do not exist, the functions and balances between what is a advantage and what is a disadvantage have to change dramatically.

    Otherwise mage class is just gonna be a piece of paper that does something similar to another ranged class but just dies so much quicker.

    That being said there are some things going for the mage class at the moment, Chloros are great, when played well can do exceptionally well at what they are supposed to do.

    Dominators are a great class, the PVP functions work very well and can be utilised if the conditions are right. But... having immunity after the second transmogrify when you will consistently die after the initial 5 second stun from another class is just not that funny.

    I play a chloro/dom class I kill no one, and everyone can kill me. But I can change the tide of the battle in matter of seconds and it feels good to be able to do that.

    I rely on instants because casting is soley useless in pvp, casting does not = to kiting, and you will never NEVER successfully kite a warrior whilst casting no matter what the range, running 10 meters, plus stun on charge makes your whole casting experience meaningless.

    I feel OP when I play my mage, but thats because I do no damage, single target damage is a mages forte but it is not that way in Rift at the moment, mages are mainly good at AOE damage dealing, but that also leaves you vulnerable.
    Last edited by whistlingwind; 03-12-2011 at 11:48 AM.

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