+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: [Guide]The Pyromancer and You

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    21

    Exclamation [Guide]The Pyromancer and You

    I Kill Everything That Moves and You Can Too

    A Guide to Pyromancer PvP
    Incoming Wall of Text: The important stuff is Role Build, Putting it All Together, and Never Underestimate

    Contents:

    Opening Remarks
    Disclaimer
    Glaryingly Obvious Problems
    Role Build
    The Pyro: SPYCHECK
    The Dom: Hope you like whips, chains, and nuts.
    Putting It All Together
    Placement. Placement. Placement!
    Mindgames: Don't Panic
    Never, Ever Underestimate the Power of Retreat
    A Quick Look at My PvE Role
    Closing Remarks


    Opening Remarks

    Hi, my name is WetTheSystem. I have a Mage named Alivia on the Dayblind shard. If you want to look me up or PM, feel free to you. This is my quick guide to playing the mage class with a specialization on Pyromancer supplemented by Dominator. There are already many threads on Warlock and Necromancer builds as well as many masochistic threads on Chloromancer PvP. The mage forums are filled with the tears of people I suppose are one of four things: Not playing some combination of Warlock/Necro, some combination of Pyromancer/Dominator, haven't made it past level 19, or they are just plain bad.

    Why are mages generally overlooked as overpowered in this game? It is because this is a class of finesse, and the "Faceroll" classes are a little too effective in this game. Mages as a class deal really good dps solo, in groups, and in PvP combat but take a lot more thought and as I said, finesse, to play.

    Disclaimer:

    -This thread is not for you if you like to faceroll.
    -This thread is not for you if you keyboard turn.
    -This thread is not for you if you click all of your abilities with your mouse.
    -This thread is not for you if you want the mage class to be as frustrating as Saboteur or any other class people love to cry about.
    -This thread is not for you if you are not willing to practice.
    -This thread is not for you if you are not willing to find out what you are fighting against.
    -This thread is not for you if you are unable to read.

    Glaringly Obvious Problems

    -Transmogrifying while having spell reflect up turns you into a squirrel for the full PvP duration.
    -Proccing Pyromancer's Armor with a Cinderburst uses the instant cast, but still refreshes the cooldown.
    -Controlled Opportunity is used by the next damage effect, not the next damaging spell cast on the squirrel.
    -Instant casts consume your Quick Thinking buff.
    -Reflective Command is ambiguous to what it can actually reflect. (I'm not sure it can reflect some stuff like Warlock's silence.)

    Role Builds

    Pyromancer/Dominator/Archmage Role at Level 29:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zsI0.gc0zmz.ebz0uhRz

    Comments: I honestly don't think this build in general is very viable until level 30s, but if you really want to hit the 20s bracket pvp you can do it around 28/29. This build is nearly identical to the finished build so I'll save the discussion of my choices until the next section.

    Pyromancer/Dominator/Archmage Role at Level 50:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...z.efuIuusuzs.x

    Comments: This build is pretty much done at around level 31. The only extra highlight you are shooting for after that is level 44 where you get the incredibly powerful Ground of Strength. As far as build choices: I've respecced countless times trying talents out. I'll identify key points, flexible points, and points you should NOT be tempted in to using.

    Key Points:
    -All the points that affect your Transmogrify are ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. These are Clinging Form 3/3, Efficient Control 5/5, Controlled Opportunity 5/5, and Quicken Form 1/1. These are necessary because they are what make you, you. They make your crowd controlling ability incredibly strong and give you a strong boost to damage (through Controlled Opportunity). I see many people skip Efficient Control, and I have no idea why. At level 35 you can transmogrify level 50s reliably when specced into this.

    -44 points in Pyromancer are REQUIRED to get Ground of Strength. This is your defining class ability. This is your cherry. This is your detonate. This is your best friend's hot girlfriend.

    -Archmage: This is required only for the 0 point "trinket" effect. It is a must must must have.

    Flexible Points:
    -Quick Thinking 2/2: This is flexible because Countdown consumes it, which is a huge problem with the PyroCombo.
    -Improved Smoldering Power 3/5: This is flexible because they are just extra points to get Ground of Strength. They are better than Improved Ground of Power due to that talent not affecting Ground of Strength at all. It should in my opinion, but it does not. At least Improved Grounding does.

    Bad Points:
    -Acumen: You will not be focusing on Intellect when you eventually build for PvP and I doubt gear will have a enough intellect to make it worth putting points into over the damage increase in the Archmage tree, and as I said before, you can't pull them out of Pyromancer.
    -Improved Ground of Power : Does not affect Ground of Strength.

    Alternate Build:
    -You can drain some points from your Archmage tree to put some into Durable Control or Priest's Lament if you're feelin' it. I think the +15% damage with the extra survivability cooldown is well worth it though.


    The Pyro: SPYCHECK

    I love Pyromancer so far, he's squishy and he puts out fat fireballs to roast the opposition. For a pure dps tree, this tree gets a lot of toolbox between Burn, Flicker, Instant Durable Burning Bonds, Flashfire, Backdraft, Fire Shield, and Heat Wave.

    The general opening rotation is Countdown, Cinderburst, Fireball when coupled with your crowd controlling effects. All of these damaging abilities have a chance to proc a new Cinderburst. Your Fireball has a chance to proc Wildfire, which turns you into an amazingly mobile instant casting machine, and then again gives you 4 more chances to proc a new Cinderburst.

    All of your Crowd Control and escape is very strong in the fire tree. When fully specced, all of it is very durable and together can keep a melee threat (though few) locked down or kited indefinitely.

    Dear God, I cannot wait to have Ground of Strength.

    The Dominator: I Hope You Like Whips, Chains, and Nuts

    Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Transmogrify.

    It is instant cast, it is annoying, it makes your Cinderburst deal 50% more damage. A squirrel can't (purposefully) line of sight you. He can't cast, burn cooldowns, or any other of those complex non-squirrely things. Break Free does put a damper on it, but again, it is instant cast. I say just squirrel them again. You will still have plenty of advantage.

    As far as other Control and Escape:
    -Arresting Presence: AAAAAAAAAAAh MAzing. Use this correctly and watch people in the battle ground suddenly start dying.
    -Thunder Blast: Has a slower projectile speed than Cinderburst so can be used in combo without spending your +50% damage. Great distancing spell which can be used on the run.
    -Reflective Command: Great ability, but be wary of the self-squirreling.
    -Deny: LOLATWARLOCKS
    -Accelerated Decay: Underwhelming :[
    -Storm Shackle: 2s cast, yuck. Still usable though.

    This is definitely the strongest mage sub tree (minus maybe Warlock) in the game. Very powerful abilities to keep the oppenents locked down.


    Putting It All Together

    So what do you do with all of these spells? Leave your opponent with no alternatives, outs, or answers. Currently, I am level 38, so when I speak of my rotation it will be from a level 38 perspective.

    Primary Rotation: Transmogrify -> Ground of Power -> Countdown -> Cinderburst

    The primary rotation is your bread and butter. If you happen to proc a free Cinderburst (or just refresh it) then repeat this process. Note: you will not have time to cast a second Cinderburst during the diminished Transmogrify, so it may be better to cast fireball after

    Secondary Rotations: ( ... indicates your primary rotation)

    ... -> Thunderblast -> Flamebolt/Inferno (Flamebolt/Inferno can't be buffered onto Cinderburst because it will consume your +50% damage charge prematurely. Thunderblast has as slower projectile speed than Cinderburst)

    ... -> Flashfire -> Fireball -> Flamebolt/Inferno (Good if you need to put out just a little more damage without them having an answer. You can also use Backdraft for extra stun time.)

    ... -> Countdown -> Transmogrify -> Instant Cast Cinderburst (So sexy when it happens)

    ... -> Burning Bonds -> DPS (For melee classes)

    ... -> Disarm -> Fireball -> Flamebolt/Inferno (Good for classes reliant on a weapon for DPS)

    ... -> Transmogrify -> (same stuff) (If you really need to keep them from answering)

    ... -> Reflective Command (If you know they are going to throw out a nuke at you asap.)

    ... -> Arresting Pressence -> DPS/Burning Bonds (Shuts down mana users. Most of the time they won't know what hit them. If he tries to run away lock that !@$%^ down.

    The Stars Align Alternate Primary Rotation:

    -If you have a instant cast Cinder Burst ready when you Transmogrify your target and you are around 25m+ away then you should alter your casting order.

    Transmogrify -> Ground of Power -> Countdown -> Fireball -> Buffer with Cinder Burst

    Note: The reason this works is that Cinder Burst's projectile speed is faster than Fireball and will thus hit the target first. This only works at a distance because the Cinder Burst has to have time to outrun the Fireball.


    Placement. Placement. Placement!

    The most important part of any ANY ranged class is PLACEMENT. Are you surrounded? Are you partially hidden from view? Are you partially out of Line of Sight? Do you have Height Advantage/Terrain Advantage? Do you have an escape route? Do you have safe Flicker landing points? Can others easily line of sight you? How close are you to help? How close are you to hurt?

    All of these are points you should think about in World and BG PvP. It is really hard to teach this or write a tutorial about it, but it is a set of points I like to bring up so hopefully you will think about them. Just remember. Placement.


    Mindgames. Don't Panic!

    -Keep your cool. If you die, you'll just respawn. This isn't as super cereal as you think. The WORST thing that can happen is you die while griefing deep in enemy territory and you have to take that long WALK OF SHAME.

    -Make sure to mix it up. Be unpredictable, especially in repeat encounters with a foe. If you reflect every time the same time, then they will predict it and burn it on something trivial. When you get into tussles with more experienced players be prepared for them to Break Free your Transmogrify at the last second and attempt to **** you in your soft, soft face.

    -BE VERSATILE!

    Never, Ever Underestimate the Power of Retreat

    This is actually a "subset" of Mindgames. Don't Panic! When in a bad situation, use your toolbox to get out of range, but not too far out of range! ;] Get LoS and Drink Up. Get some of your sip on. Water is amazingly powerful in this game, and you should always have stacks and stacks of it in your bags. Very likely, the person your baiting has wasted his cooldowns, while this build of Pyro/Dom/Arch has VERY VERY low cooldowns on for all your combo abilities. Won't he be surprised when you're at full health/mana and blasting him the face with the full capacity of your Cinder Burst combo.

    A Quick Look at My PvE Role

    In case you're interested:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0z...V.xc0Izucuto.V

    3 points to play with. Have fun. I'd say put them into Fiery Concentration.


    Closing Remarks

    Strengths: Superb CC, good escape mechanisms, good burst and sustained potential, long range, multi-useful, good with mind games.

    Weaknesses: Pets, water reliant, very possible to get one-shotted (work on your placement), other players can accidentally cause your death by ruining your CC combo, not everyone knows that the next hit does 50% more damage after Transmogrify and waste it on something @#$%ing stupid, ability bars will be full.

    The most important part of the class build is PRACTICE. Duel some friends. Gank some enemies. Keep up your morale. Keep trying. You have a TON of buttons to press.

    Comments are welcome. Mages are fine. At least PvP wise.

  2. #2
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    647

    Default

    Awesome thread. Just Awesome.

    I'm rocking the warlock as subtree at the moment, but will swap over and give this a try, seems the way to do it especially once I gain GoS and less need to be mobile.

  3. #3
    General of Telara
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    854

    Default

    Nice.

    But... you're advocating casting Cinderburst without a Pyromancer Armor's proc...?

    Not surprisingly, a lot of the Pyromancer's game is harassing and retreating strategically. I need to learn how to do this in first-person perspective; I can only do this in games like League of Legends, because of I don't know
    Last edited by Wenry; 03-07-2011 at 07:08 PM.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1

    Default

    Very nice thread but is this a duel or 1 vs 1 topic? If you take the 4.x seconds to cast cinder in any warfront or mass pvp the other people will likely kill you in this time or interrupt the cast. May work good vs monsters but groups of players never. I would say never cast it unless it procs.
    Last edited by requin; 03-07-2011 at 07:25 PM.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    21

    Default

    I find myself being able to cast Cinderburst effectively a lot in Warfronts. You just have to be sneaky. If youre not confident cast a Fireball.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1

    Default

    Wow thanks for this...I was on the verge of giving up on this class in PvP until I tried this out. I had been running various combos of Lock/Necro/Dom and Chlor/Lock/Necro but just didn't feel like I was worthwhile as either a healer or a DPS. But I tried out your build tonight and felt like I was actually contributing to the fight...I could actually kill someone (unlike any of my lock builds) and I felt useful sheeping, rooting, harassing (unlike any cholor builds where I just felt like gimped heals). Thanks, can't wait to get some more practice.

  7. #7
    Sword of Telara Ramea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    802

    Default

    very nice post, thanks for that
    If you want to avoid squirreling yourself, use this macro for squirreling:

    #show Transmogrify
    cancelbuff Reflective Command
    cast Transmogrify

    I have been reading for a while now, so maybe somebody has pointed it out already

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramea View Post
    very nice post, thanks for that
    If you want to avoid squirreling yourself, use this macro for squirreling:

    #show Transmogrify
    cancelbuff Reflective Command
    cast Transmogrify

    I have been reading for a while now, so maybe somebody has pointed it out already
    Wow fantastic idea man! Thanks for this.

    Also thanks for all the complements. I hope you guys are as successful as I have been.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    11

    Default

    I do wonder if it's really worth skipping Acumen and priests lament though. Granted Acumen isn't going to be all that useful, but I also dont find transmog costing enough or being resisted often enough to be a chore. Especially since on the rare occasion it is resisted I just recast it right away anyway.

    It's probably 6s atm anyway though since int seems to scale so poorly with us regardless.

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    809

    Default

    This doesn't really seem the essence of pyromancer.

    Full points pyro, 5pts archon and rest in archmage, voila, insta crispy caster.

    Find one other caster and target him exclusively while having cast on targets target enabled and you're all set!

  11. #11
    Telaran Celeritylol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    75

    Default

    I've never had my sheeps resisted (104 focus), IMO, effecient control is worthless and mana is never an issue with uber-water & mana wrench. I'd also argue taking Swift Control (and going deeper into Dominator) over Ground of Power. Effectively instant cast (you need to stop moving for the 0.1 cast, basically) Storm Shackles, Fireballs, and Edicts. As well as ~1.5-2s cast Cinderbursts are far more worthwhile in a Warfront then an annoying ground mechanic. You should be always on the move.
    Mercy/Celerity/Leviticus ~ Brocliff

  12. #12
    Plane Touched tHeUnBeAtAbLe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    286

    Default

    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...nge-is-upon-us

    There was one already, but oh well.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Liper View Post
    This doesn't really seem the essence of pyromancer.

    Full points pyro, 5pts archon and rest in archmage, voila, insta crispy caster.

    Find one other caster and target him exclusively while having cast on targets target enabled and you're all set!
    I don't even know what you are trying to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celeritylol View Post
    I've never had my sheeps resisted (104 focus), IMO, effecient control is worthless and mana is never an issue with uber-water & mana wrench. I'd also argue taking Swift Control (and going deeper into Dominator) over Ground of Power. Effectively instant cast (you need to stop moving for the 0.1 cast, basically) Storm Shackles, Fireballs, and Edicts. As well as ~1.5-2s cast Cinderbursts are far more worthwhile in a Warfront then an annoying ground mechanic. You should be always on the move.
    It is possible that Transmogrify may not get resisted much. As far as I know this affects all crowd control abilities, including Burning Bonds, which is on a hefty cooldown. I need to double check this. Mana wrench is a waste of time for a hybrid dominator build. It is amazing for an almost pure build, but it is 3 seconds of you standing with a big lightning beam pointing at you screaming HEY KILL ME PLEASE.

    Not getting Ground of Strength as Pyromancer is the worst decision I can think of. It is your key defining PvP ability. CC immunity, 30% less damage, chance to proc 2 second stuns. Couple this with Heatwave and you can effectively stun lock someone. Improving the casting speed of two spells is not worth it over this. Maybe if it affected your GCD, it could be a competitive choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by tHeUnBeAtAbLe View Post
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...nge-is-upon-us

    There was one already, but oh well.
    I like how you supplied positive feedback while blowing smoke up your own ***. Your build has been criticized into the ground from what I have seen. I don't care for it myself, but I won't go into it because this thread is not about your thread. Plus, your guide has worse formatting than mine.

  14. #14
    Telaran blazeric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Run Like Hell
    Posts
    63

    Default

    The funny thing is that I was using this build my only variation I came up with is whether to have 18 points in Dom. to get the heal debuff or 5 points in Archmage for Detaunt and I will probably end up with detaunt. I love ground of strength or as some people in my guild call it ground of opness. It is so fun to play this spec. especially in warfronts.
    Run Like Hell Spitscar-Blaze

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts