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Thread: healers are patheticvaly weak in dungeons.

  1. #1
    Plane Walker Elco's Avatar
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    Default healers are patheticvaly weak in dungeons.

    do we realy need 2 or 3 heal roles just to do leveling up dungeons? yes ive been in awesome groups where I could solo heal the whole dungeon

    Ive been in many more full of good players but they didnt have the exact right builds and I couldnt heal the group. same goes for the tanks.

    This game does not have the advertised diversity of viable roles. roles are pretty much a joke. either that, or cleric healing is a joke. I havent done warfronts since beta 4 so Ill leave that lie. I seem to be very effective in rifts.

    what is pissing me off is not being able to heal in dungeons without a very specific group.

    I dont want the game to go easy mode, I would just like for the devs to actual spend the time on souls that is required to ensure we dont end up with 4 builds more or less - thus negating the entire soul concept.

    from the healer standpoint I see too many useless heales do to GCD long casts or long cooldowns. the reason warden is so prevelandt is because of the aformentioned limitations that arent balanced to PVE encounters at all..

    My suggestion is to start balancing healers on mana, and back way off of the long casts/long cooldowns. It may make those long rift battles a PITA, but it will go a long ways towards making the rest of pve make sense to us healing vets.
    Last edited by Elco; 02-09-2011 at 01:19 AM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    The devs said that dungeons are balanced around having more than 1 Healer

    but less than 2 pure healers

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Elco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    The devs said that dungeons are balanced around having more than 1 Healer

    but less than 2 pure healers
    I think that is very wrong headed. And i suspect the reason is, they dont want warfronts and pvp battles to last too long.

    tanks and healers have always had a very specific role. Tanks and healers have always been a singular role within a group going back to PnP all the way through every RPG ever made. To make healers require backup because they are afraid of a segment of the PvP crowd who will most likely fade away regardless of what they do- is really incredibly dumb.

    If a pure heal build cant keep up a good tank and group in a low level dungeon(25-35, first ones are stupid easy), this game is going to have problems.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elco View Post
    I think that is very wrong headed. And i suspect the reason is, they dont want warfronts and pvp battles to last too long.

    tanks and healers have always had a very specific role. Tanks and healers have always been a singular role within a group going back to PnP all the way through every RPG ever made. To make healers require backup because they are afraid of a segment of the PvP crowd who will most likely fade away regardless of what they do- is really incredibly dumb.

    If a pure heal build cant keep up a good tank and group in a low level dungeon(25-35, first ones are stupid easy), this game is going to have problems.
    I solo healed KB as a sentinel without a problem untill the last boss who was a little difficult because of the aoe healing required but only took us 3 attempts to work it out. The group was myself , 3 rogues and a warrior tank.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker Elco's Avatar
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    I played pure sentinel as my healer in beta 1-4. was suspecting that it is the way to go in dungeons. It still irks me that with a group full of reasonable builds they healing role is the limiting factor.

    Maybe we are amazingly well balanced and I just have to wait for every other calling to learn their class better. Buut ive been doing this heal gig since before eq1, and im getting the sense that all the different game play elements are very extremely poorly balanced off of eachother.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elco View Post
    I think that is very wrong headed. And i suspect the reason is, they dont want warfronts and pvp battles to last too long.

    tanks and healers have always had a very specific role. Tanks and healers have always been a singular role within a group going back to PnP all the way through every RPG ever made. To make healers require backup because they are afraid of a segment of the PvP crowd who will most likely fade away regardless of what they do- is really incredibly dumb.

    If a pure heal build cant keep up a good tank and group in a low level dungeon(25-35, first ones are stupid easy), this game is going to have problems.
    Hardly, It just means that they want the group dynamic to be Tank, Healer, Support, DPS, DPS

    I support it

  7. #7
    Ascendant paspinall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    The devs said that dungeons are balanced around having more than 1 Healer

    but less than 2 pure healers
    Actually the dev said that levelling dungeons were balanced around one healer it is the level 50 tiered ones that are based around more than 1 (ie a support healer)

    as to the OP I have healed instances fine in both purifier and Warden specs, a fellow guildie heals usually with a sentinel build. Chloromancers can also solo heal the dungeons. And if you really want to be sure ust try to take a support role like a half and half healer/dps cleric or mage or a bard.

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  8. #8
    Telaran
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    So just because this doesn't work like every other game it's bad?

    Adapt, adopt and improve. If you can't do that, maybe it's something other than the game that's bad.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Grufftech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elco View Post
    do we realy need 2 or 3 heal roles just to do leveling up dungeons? yes ive been in awesome groups where I could solo heal the whole dungeon

    Ive been in many more full of good players but they didnt have the exact right builds and I couldnt heal the group. same goes for the tanks.

    This game does not have the advertised diversity of viable roles. roles are pretty much a joke. either that, or cleric healing is a joke. I havent done warfronts since beta 4 so Ill leave that lie. I seem to be very effective in rifts.

    what is pissing me off is not being able to heal in dungeons without a very specific group.

    I dont want the game to go easy mode, I would just like for the devs to actual spend the time on souls that is required to ensure we dont end up with 4 builds more or less - thus negating the entire soul concept.

    from the healer standpoint I see too many useless heales do to GCD long casts or long cooldowns. the reason warden is so prevelandt is because of the aformentioned limitations that arent balanced to PVE encounters at all..

    My suggestion is to start balancing healers on mana, and back way off of the long casts/long cooldowns. It may make those long rift battles a PITA, but it will go a long ways towards making the rest of pve make sense to us healing vets.

    You will likely need 1 Healer and 1 Support (Bard, Choloro, ect)
    Beta Participated: SW:TOR, RIFT,EQ2:SF, EQ2:TSO, AoC, STO, GW, RO
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  10. #10
    Telaran Daratan's Avatar
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    As far as I can see its working as intended. If you could rely purely on pure heal, pure tank, pure dps this game would bring nothing new. The fact that Trion decided to add real support classes and actually make groups need them is just wonderfull. Enjoy the changes, dont be so narrowminded as to only focus on your own HPS.
    This is a team game. And I for one love it...

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Reading about the need for extra healing is getting old. This isn't wow. This isn't LOTRO....etc. This game is not about 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps. Accept it...or move on.

    Some content can be solo heasled, some you need help. If it wasn't that way and it all was done by a full heal specced cleric then what is the point of being a hybrid?

    I went into KB with a full group of 32s as the only healer (sent/warden/pur) and it was OK for some pulls but they were all pretty hairy. I asked the mage to go chloro to help me out and we cleared it all. Sometimes a dps would drop if they grabbed aggro but with a 10 minute battle rez we did OK. I have to say I was amazed how bad our tank got beat up but it made healing exciting (im usually a tank/dps).

    So anyways....people who comment on the difficulty of dungeons at lvl 18 need to realize you aren't playing with a full deck yet. The major balances (if any) need to happen when we reach endgame.

    This game isn't broken, its different.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    The IT run we did with just a random pick up group was healed by 1 Cleric with me helping out a little bit with a healing Cadence. We didn't seem to have any problem. Maybe we got lucky and got the perfect group...

  13. #13
    Telaran eschrick7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borto View Post
    This game isn't broken, its different.
    I like it.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched
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    I think a lot of it has to do with each person knowing what their role within the group is. The last IT run I was in on my pur/sent/ward cleric there was another pur/sent/ward cleric in the group but she was standing right next to the tank the entire time. That right there tells me he/she didn't really understand their role. If everyone knows what they are supposed to do things tend to go a lot faster. One thing I noticed was every once in a while I get in trouble if I'm solo healing when multiple people start taking damage. I've yet to actually complete IT though. I'm hoping on the open beta I can get some more time in and try to finish it.

    But really if the tank knows how to hold agro well and the dps/support understand their role and where to position themselves I don't see too much of an issue. If I'm able to focus at least 75% of my healing time on the tank then things usually run pretty smooth. And I'm hoping a couple more levels will help too.
    Excuses are nails that built the house of FAIL

  15. #15
    Champion
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    I dont think healers are weak at all in dungeons, never felt pressured to have the "perfect" group for any boss encounter. Perhaps it will be different at 50..but every dungeon up to the 35 one seemed pretty easy to solo heal as a warden..bards and chloro(chrloro can solo heal as well) used as support healers are just a luxery and allow you to practically go afk until a boss encounter, but I never felt the need to have one..in fact I would prefer not to have one so I can actually play my class in the instance :P. The only real limiting factors are whether your tank can actually tank(if he cant he is just bad and thats not your fault obviously) and the speed of the instance run due to how well your DPS'ers can dish out the damage.

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