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Thread: Any healing spec for WFs to be useful as a cleric ?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Any healing spec for WFs to be useful as a cleric ?

    is there any build that makes cleric of any use as a healer in warfronts?

    i have tried sentinel, but it is never close to produce enough healing, besides the cast time heals and the mana issues , warden is worthless, puri is immobile.

    warrior and primalist healers are always on the top of the meter, is this normal or i am bad cleric?

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Xydru's Avatar
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    That's just what it is at the moment.

    When legendary Fairy Healer was decent, Senti was a lot better just because it was harder to kill. It didn't do much healing on its own, but it could stay alive well enough. Now you can put out ~4.5-5.5k+ HPS (without frags) by spamming Crucial Invocation and all CDs, which just isn't that good when the majority of PvPers can do ~6k+ DPS.

    Honestly the only way for cleric heals to work is for fairy healer to be decent again or to receive targeted PvP buffs.

    It would also help a little if legendary Wasting Insignia placed a buff onto the caster instead of relying on the debuffed target to stay alive/not be cleansed. Meh.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara Skiye's Avatar
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    It's been a long while since i've done any PVP in Rift, but i'd probably go for something like this.

    https://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#m8g/UkllliEGkG8/rgY

    Legendaries...

    Salvation
    Flame Lance (Self Buffs for easy target switching)
    Miserly Affliction
    Unstable Transformation
    Aggressive Avarice

    Masteries

    Soul Collector
    Divine Inspriation
    Faith's Freedom
    Sinister Resolve
    Vicar's Bullwark or Soul Stream

    You should have some sort of self shielding on due to Caregivers Blessing and Cardial conversion. Your self survivability should be decent though with all your rage DoT's and Aggressive Avarice giving you health back along with Salvation ticks.

    4 Nearby Allies will also get those salvation ticks. The'll also get passive shielding from Caregivers.

    Your Burst Healing would come from applying Bond of Pain and Miserly Affliction to a target and spreading those DoT's with Unholy Nexus. That's 12 Salvation ticks every 1.5 seconds for you and nearby allies.

    For a "save myself" macro i'd macro Unstable Transformation with the pvp buff that gives the black wings. Just be sure to make sure it's @self. You could also make a separate target version so you an apply it to others since both buffs can be placed on other players.
    Last edited by Skiye; 08-15-2019 at 05:22 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skiye View Post
    It's been a long while since i've done any PVP in Rift, but i'd probably go for something like this.

    https://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#m8g/UkllliEGkG8/rgY

    Legendaries...

    Salvation
    Flame Lance (Self Buffs for easy target switching)
    Miserly Affliction
    Unstable Transformation
    Aggressive Avarice

    Masteries

    Soul Collector
    Divine Inspriation
    Faith's Freedom
    Sinister Resolve
    Vicar's Bullwark or Soul Stream

    You should have some sort of self shielding on due to Caregivers Blessing and Cardial conversion. Your self survivability should be decent though with all your rage DoT's and Aggressive Avarice giving you health back along with Salvation ticks.

    4 Nearby Allies will also get those salvation ticks. The'll also get passive shielding from Caregivers.

    Your Burst Healing would come from applying Bond of Pain and Miserly Affliction to a target and spreading those DoT's with Unholy Nexus. That's 12 Salvation ticks every 1.5 seconds for you and nearby allies.

    For a "save myself" macro i'd macro Unstable Transformation with the pvp buff that gives the black wings. Just be sure to make sure it's @self. You could also make a separate target version so you an apply it to others since both buffs can be placed on other players.
    Genius!
    Very intersting build. I will give it a try now. Thank you sir.
    If u could create more builds for pvp healing/tanking as a cleric, and make a thread about it you would help lots of us.

  5. #5
    Shield of Telara Skiye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Sami View Post
    Genius!
    Very intersting build. I will give it a try now. Thank you sir.
    If u could create more builds for pvp healing/tanking as a cleric, and make a thread about it you would help lots of us.
    I hope this build works out well for you! Unfortunately I haven't done much as far as serious PvP since Storm Legion and only did a small bit of PvP when SFP came out before the nerfs started rolling in. I'd be hesitant to put out any guides to PvP considering it's not something I partake in much now.

    The lack of replies to your thread prompted my response though. On paper I think this will work decently well though. Happy hunting!
    Last edited by Skiye; 08-15-2019 at 09:14 AM.
    Sepelio@wolfsbane | Stabbytha@wolfsbane | Gunsho@wolfsbane | Stelatrix@wolfsbane | Sidereus@wolfsbane | Vespa@Wolfsbane

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  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    You won't out heal the dps you do to yourself if you use that build. Sent/puri hybrid was as good as it got for cleric but it got nerfed not long ago. I tried different custom builds healing with salvation but it's barely there. Better than nothing sometimes, depends on the match setup. I would do one of these 3, full puri, full sent, or the sent puri hybrid but without reliance on the old leg flash of the phoenix. If you are dpsing and want some heals, imo inq with leg salv is 10x better than full defiler. And that's coming from someone who likes defiler. The scaling on it isnt right. Hopefully the guy on PTS will listen to my change list lol.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barabbas View Post
    You won't out heal the dps you do to yourself if you use that build. Sent/puri hybrid was as good as it got for cleric but it got nerfed not long ago. I tried different custom builds healing with salvation but it's barely there. Better than nothing sometimes, depends on the match setup. I would do one of these 3, full puri, full sent, or the sent puri hybrid but without reliance on the old leg flash of the phoenix. If you are dpsing and want some heals, imo inq with leg salv is 10x better than full defiler. And that's coming from someone who likes defiler. The scaling on it isnt right. Hopefully the guy on PTS will listen to my change list lol.
    could u please give me link for the healing builds in riftmagelo full sent / full puri / hybrid sent puri
    thanks

  8. #8
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    I used to heal a lot on cleric in exclusively pvp. Before they nerfed the phoenix rez exploit I was hitting max 4million heals (never saw another cleric hit 4 either). I hit it being 1/2 inq dos and the other half puri. Whats sad is that Judicial P and faerie were a good chunk of the heals.

    I tried going pure heals and found heals were literally so bad that the exploit and JP did more healing along with the faerie that your wasting your time doing any type of targeted healing.

    Contributing in a wf your way better going dps, currently. Trying to heal on a cleric is like a small rock trying to stave off the incoming ocean wave. Its so pitiful its actually laughable, and you would need roughly (estimate) a blanket 200% or more heal increase to be level with dps. Level mind you, not better.

    Primalist hitting two buttons 1-1-1-2 will do about 10k-10k-10k-90k damage, or more.
    Cleric trying to heal, at a worse gcd at that will fo about 3k-3k-3k-wow a 15 k crit best heal in a longer timeframe. We could do the math for ten other souls and you'd just cry.

    Post more about heals in general in wfs and maybe they'll eventually fix some. Ive mentioned the fix needed in several posts Ive made.

    To put things in perspective, at lvl 65 before all the heal nerfs I was hitting 3 million heals in pvp on sent. Adding power and levels and at 70 most cant do 3 million heals. Its like the class regressed. Its that bad.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 08-28-2019 at 03:53 PM.

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    To put things in perspective, at lvl 65 before all the heal nerfs I was hitting 3 million heals in pvp on sent. Adding power and levels and at 70 most cant do 3 million heals. Its like the class regressed. Its that bad.
    You shouldn't rely on what the game tells you at the end of a warfront. It can be greatly misleading. Get the most up to date parser and use all the functions it offers to break down damage, absorbs, healing etc. When you get good enough with it you will even notice why damage hit at certain times was lower than normal and concur that the person must have had a damage reduction CD, link or immunity CD on. You will eventually be able to tell that the person was using an ability like diffuse, TT, Healer's Covenant and in some cases a warlord link and vice versa. Like if an ability hits for abnormal 120K when it is usually in the 60Kish range. You will be able to tell that the person had a 200% damage buff from Tenebrean Prison and can conclude a parse is not relevant as it is abnormally being boosted from an outside source so it doesn't need any attention in the ways of nerfing.

    There is another big reason not to rely on the game to tell you what's going on all the time. That is because cleric has a bias mechanic and can trick even unknowing new devs into making bad changes if they are not aware of it.

    Defiler greed spells hit for full, unreduced, even on a global scale, damage in PvP. It can also CRIT you and that CRIT is also affected and amplified by your very own CRIT POWER. For example, you have 300K life. You cast MA on the opponent. You hit them for 1-1.5K rolling dot. However, you will hit yourself for 30K instantly and if it crits with full crit power even 40K INSTANTLY. The damage is not even reduced by reductions to damage so even if you have damage reductions from talents it will completely avoid those abilities and can still hit for the full amount if I remember correctly. Only some absorb shields or complete immunity to damage can help reduce that damage. I don't even think Scarred Heart talent actually works either for LMA. I can be wrong about this part though. I haven't checked in a long time.

    This mechanic is the bane of the cleric healing in PvP. If nothing else was changed but this fixed where the damage is fully reduced by PvP global reductions for these abilities clerics can have some decent healing souls like a defi/puri/justicar or the normal defi/healer from pve. Why do I bring this up? Because right now you can use a defi/puri/just spec and hit 6 million+ total healing and very high damage in warfronts but that damage and healing will be something like 80%-90% done to yourself. If they would have counted outgoing healing and damage instead of self-damage and healing it would have been like 20% of that number. For benefit of the doubt like 2-3 million healing which is actually a lower number than what other healers can do. LAA and LFH PvP nerf should be rolled back some. Justicar was another excuse used to get those Legendaries nerfed but Reprieve use to restore 100% to the cleric tank. Now it doesn't so maybe looking into dialing back those nerfs in PvP will help somewhat.

    There are a number of ways the devs can fix this. One is to remove all damage to self abilities from the game and make a big note of those abilities to not allow future devs to introduce it again which is the easiest and most logical solution. However, this will make those Legendary bandaids like LFH and LAA less useful and may need to be repurposed which can be a good thing but a lot of work. Secondly, they can fix the damage to self so it also follows the same PvP damage reductions in PvP which will allow those legendaries to be useful. Compliment it with minor un nerf to LAA and LFH so they make more sense to take in PvP for these specs and put a big sticky note for why they exist because of damage to self abilities in PvP. Reduce the damage they do to themselves significantly. Cut it down to 2% tops or to the point where current LFH and LAA are useful again to curb the insane damage to self in PvP.

    There are other ways to handle this problem in a more intricate way as well but these I find are the easiest to implement. If you were to be able to do the damage you can do to yourself to other players like this.. it will be something like 27-40K hits repetitively which would make you have one of the highest ST DPS in PvP. Technically, a Cleric can have the highest ST DPS in PvP.. just they can only do it to themselves :P Trivia for you.

    What should be considered is that it wouldn't make sense to a lot of players who expect this meta to exist for the life of the game. If suddenly cleric works just as good or decently better as healer again in PvP it would stress the community who has adapted the current meta. Even if you were to consider a simple DPS change for cleric, a Paragon or RB or NB or Primalist user won't understand how a shaman somehow became just as threatening if the dev actually gave them the same rangeability as they have had for years by giving Shaman, for instance, an ability to perform their attacks from max range half the time. The entire base would have to adapt to clerics if they were balanced in this way.

    I don't mind a class even being built as a more challenging class to play with lots of buffs, dots, RNG in damage and stacks to maintain and very restricted mobility and target switching issues.I prefer that souls from each class should endure and share that pain though. From an ethical point of view I do think it is wrong to not let it be known during character creation. A new player entering the game usually won't consider this when choosing a class and naturally think all classes share a more or less equal playability experience. The ultimate simple and last resort solution is just acknowledging the Cleric is not for beginners when creating a class. It could be the easiest fix possible to help keep retention high. Players learning they are not in the equal playing field with other class users a year or more after investing won't be so happy when they finally gain that knowledge through personal experience. I only say this because I feel the game has lost the most cleric players or have had the most players change to other classes based on data collection over time.

    Clerics don't have many specs to fall back on. They are highly dependent on LSalvation as it gives them their best quality for a spot in a raid which is already dependent on whether a boss has immunity phases or if phases have a targetable enemy to damage off of. Nerf that and they lose pretty much every reason to bring one.. other than just lack of tank or to carry for gear drops. That should be the preference of the player.

    Note: I don't know if they have changed anything recently with stealth patch notes happening so something can change but this data is based on my last test which was over 1 year ago, maybe even 2 so I may be wrong about some things..

    If you want to test for yourself use Rift Meter. Look at damage taken and note greed spell damage in warfronts. Keep a note of average damage, average crit, and max crit to self. Use the print screen to save screenshots and post that data as well as send it to CM or whoever you know is doing class changes. Maybe they will be kind enough to do more cleric changes. The last round of changes were good but cleric needs many more changes to get the parity of many other classes. I feel only way to keep retention rates up is also not to nerf other classes to cleric levels but to enhance your way out of it.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 11-15-2019 at 05:31 AM.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker Dharien's Avatar
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    I use 61 Sentinel in PvP Warfronts. Don't really care for Purifier and Warden much! LOL

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