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Thread: Sentinel, PvP

  1. #16
    Rift Disciple Xydru's Avatar
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    https://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#...yFkGGa8/q|TLPM
    Legendaries: Banish, Light of Redemption, Healing Communion, Flame Lance, Waterjet

    This is the spec I use now. Fairy Healer ticks for ~300 HP, so it's pretty worthless. 3% damage reduction will add up to more effective HP, plus having a spamable 30% 8s slow can be pretty handy.
    I prefer Vicar's Bulwark because it can't be interrupted and you can layer additional heals on top of it, unlike Soul Stream. It also has good synergy with Overload, which is nice.

    #show Crucial Invocation
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Touch the Light
    cast Flashover
    cast @mouseoverui Crucial Invocation
    cast @mouseoverui Healing Breath
    cast @mouseoverui Healing Flare

    Sometimes Flashover will be wasted on Healing Breath/Flare. If you want more control over it, just take it out of the macro. I have enough buttons to worry about, so I don't care enough to manually use it.

    My buff macro:

    #show Light of Redemption
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Marked by the Light
    cast Faith Rewarded
    cast Light of Redemption

    Sent is very mana hungry since you have to spam Crucial Invocation to be useful. I use

    #show Healing Communion
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Healing Communion
    cast Healing Breath
    cast Healing Flare
    cast Reverent Supplication

    to quickly regen mana. You can use this to still run and regen mana with Faith Rewarded mastery.
    When you have enough mana, just use

    cancelbuff Reverent Supplication


    Properly tracking your buffs is a very easy way to counter purges, especially considering both Light of Redemption and Marked by the Light are oGCD. Hardly anyone even bothers to purge anyway. Maybe like 4-5 people in all NA actually bother to do it consistently in PvP.

    I can very easily outheal Farseers in 61 Senti after those juicy nerfs. Even 61 Warden can outheal some Farseers now, if you've got enough teammates to heal. (Whitefall Steppes with 10+ teammates is best map for Warden, maybe the only map it's useable)

    Well timed Healer's Covenant and layered CDs can be very potent, so don't be afraid to dump all your CDs onto someone (as long as that someone is actually worth keeping alive).

  2. #17
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    So is Sentinel still the PVP build of choice or that something of the past?

  3. #18
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    So is Sentinel still the PVP build of choice or that something of the past?
    Sentinel was never good as a healer compared to the other classes post original Rift(it wasn't really their heals which warden and puri absorbs were the better choice but actually a bug with parry and block from
    senticar spec that made them super tanky in PvP.)

    After the senticar fix a bug LoR ability came about which was nerfed like a month into the expansion. Puri was gutted during the TESTING phase of SL. In SL it was clearly Defiler that was the best.

    Again the only reason why Sent were "good" in the beginning of expansion was that they had another broken ability that "killed" the player attacking the person they were healing called Wrathful Exuberance. In my opinion, Original defiler and warden were the only good specs cleric really ever had in PvP and it was only because they had no healers in the game except for chloro, lol. Puri/Sent was the only ST healer in the game so it had 0 competition automatically making it the BEST in original content but it played horribly in comparison to the future healing specs of other classes.

    For some reason, a bunch of clerics has been claiming that Sent was viable because of the actual healing, not the actual fact it was behaving as a strong DPS and a bug LoR for the newer expansions. Or even the fact that they were the only healers in the game at some point. After the fix went in they were trash healers compared to libs, and phys in NT, and later on FK and WC surpass them even more. The WE bug actually existed for some time during prime as well. And the same thing happened after it was fixed to sentinels. Clerics opt-out of healing.

    I strongly suggest you play another calling, especially for PvP. Not that cleric can't be played in PvP but just the fact that when it comes to gutting a class in every aspect cleric has been picked on the most. I'm hoping Gamigo will find the persons behind the madness and put an end to it. It clearly has cost them a large number of players and cash over the years. Although I thank the last dev for making some moves to help cleric after years and years of being ignored it was very very minute development for a class that needed a lot of reworking to be streamlined like the others. I have 5 specs for my mage, 6 for my rogue, 5 for my warrior, 4 for my primalist.. mostly 3-4 dps and heal or hybribs of support and heals or tank and support spec. And on my cleric I literally have 2 and both are PITA to use compared to the others. One of them barely works and the other Inquisitor which doesn't rake in as many KBs as most of the other dps specs from every other class. I feel like I am constantly hugging the wall with inquisitor and have 0 pushing power with shaman lol.

    If you still want to play cleric Inquisitor is decent but only if you are skilled when I mean skilled is you will need to play with at least 8+ buttons compared to 2-3. You will want to double up on your Legendary SH every RC, Rune of Return is the most horribly designed teleport in the game but a must-have in my opinion. I have to design a special Kalert so i can use it. And the same goes for the only viable heal cleric have which is Legendary Pheonix with a specific Kalert designed since the cooldown displays are broken on each of those abilities. And for some reason, a lot of the cleric abilities are designed in a way they can't be used with target selected which means you have to cancel your target before being able to use them or use specific macros for those abilities. Inquisitor is hard countered as well with interrupts and cleanses.

    I also heard that the only one healing ability that makes or breaks cleric has been bugged(possibly intentionally) lately to make it go on 5 min CD instead of 30 secs. I see a lot of clerics complain about it lately. If I were you I would stick to another class. I personally like a warrior the best but only because of how OP it is as a healer and its DPS roles are all fun and unrestricted to use.. both from melee and range. Incredible burst and lots of ways to play. RB is fun to play when you get used to the teleport technique, Warlord charges and mobility are amazing as well And of course Paragon..the ezmode go to specs of most warriors. Reaver is not as bad as all people say in PvP. They are good covers for lock dots so they have a place in PvP. I like mage next because again they have a decent healing soul. Nerf their healing souls and then Rogue would be my choice. Primalist is mostly a braindead massive burst DPS so if you really want a super casual class to play with decent support healing Primalist is great.

    Clearly, stealth favors domination maps, codex, and flag cap maps like BA so if they ever nerf the strong healing specs of warrior and mage then Rogue will be my first choice instead. And honestly, rogue can support/heal and I can see myself getting use to mastering LHD just to keep all the amazing playstyles of rogue.

    I've been thinking about what will happen if the devs made an expansion and gave all classes 5 more talent points like they did in SL as well. I can see with other classes some absolutely ridiculous stuff to obtain from 61/20 specs but cleric seems horrible even then. It would be interesting for shiz and giggles after gearing all the other classes up in PvP to play though..


    TLDR: CLERIC WAS ONLY EVER GOOD AS HEALER IN THE GAME WHEN IT WAS LITERALLY THE ONLY HEALER IN THE GAME.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 02-19-2020 at 02:24 AM.

  4. #19
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Well i was here through out the reign of Sentinel (and previously that week of the broken Puri and before that warden and senticar) and first hand saw their power (you can even peruse my posts).

    Welp, although i had other classes aside from whatever the hell primalist is, i always gravitate back to clerics xD.
    I guess i will figure out what works (except if its defiler, i still think its an abomination and shouldnt have been added).

    Thanks!

  5. #20
    Telaran
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    Sad thing is I only ever wanted to be a healer, so logically I picked Cleric as my only character. Then the other 3 classes became badass healers and as a cleric you had to work your *** off and still not even compete.

    I thought about rerolling but figured for sure they would fix it. Nope. You can clearly see that Trion lost their way with their games.

  6. #21
    Telaran Kelyk's Avatar
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    Considering Trion doesn't exist anymore, you are right.

    Gamigo started adjusting DPS specs a while ago but stopped, they haven't touched healing specs in a long time. But with Kerilar actually bringing new content to RIFT, it's possible more spec balancing is on the way (though probably not soon.)

  7. #22
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelyk View Post
    Considering Trion doesn't exist anymore, you are right.

    Gamigo started adjusting DPS specs a while ago but stopped, they haven't touched healing specs in a long time. But with Kerilar actually bringing new content to RIFT, it's possible more spec balancing is on the way (though probably not soon.)
    Meh, back in june 2016, shortly before I stopped playing, I posted about how awful clerics heals were performing in pvp. This was well before Trion sold and even without playing since then I'm confident the situation hasn't improved.

    Sentinels heals were pitifully weak and they relied heavily on buffs that were spam purged. Warden healed far too slow and died far too easily. Purifier was rather weak and also somewhat purge vulnerable. No escape/movement and few survival tools.

    Sounds like people should just play warriors.
    Last edited by Scubah; 03-28-2020 at 03:55 PM.

  8. #23
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    Sentinel was powerful at one point, even the best healing soul and this went on for a while to those that remember. Took 3-4 players to take my sent out, or 2 top notch players, but even then, you HAD to take the sent out.

    My current cleric has two maxxed out frag sets with most the rest being around lvl 11-12, nothing bad but no great frags either. I hit upwards of 9-10k hps sustained in optimal matches, see rare spikes of 11-12k, and play a hybrid build and hit about 20 buttons to maximize it.

    My lvl 69 mage, while bolstered, is hitting regularly higher hps (about 2k hps higher) then my cleric and Ive seen sustained 10-12k hps already in optimal matches. I hit half as many buttons as I have to on my cleric. Im also playing a hybrid build probably slightly different then what most are playing.

    Summary: Cleric heals can be fun, but play it for the challenge because its like purposefully handicapping yourself just to see if you can surprise others your not useless. Just don't expect to be the top healer if other good mage or warrior healers are on.

  9. #24
    Soulwalker Dharien's Avatar
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    I will just say this as my statement. Sentinel is pretty much the absolute perfect healing soul for PvP so far in my opinion. After trying Warden and Purifier, I didn't get much going. Sentinel worked really well for me. The heals seemed steady and stable, and were pretty much working. It has been a lot of fun for me. I was super disappointed and angry when it got nerfed a while ago near the end of 2017. But, right now at the moment, it's still really cool!
    Last edited by Dharien; 04-16-2020 at 05:45 PM.

  10. #25
    Telaran Kelyk's Avatar
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    Sentinel's heal style is great for PvP, burst heals on targets that are slowly hitting below 50% health instead of dropping from 100% to 16% in .36 seconds like in raids.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dharien View Post
    I will just say this as my statement. Sentinel is pretty much the absolute perfect healing soul for PvP so far in my opinion. After trying Warden and Purifier, I didn't get much going. Sentinel worked really well for me. The heals seemed steady and stable, and were pretty much working. It has been a lot of fun for me. I was super disappointed and angry when it got nerfed a while ago near the end of 2017. But, right now at the moment, it's still really cool!
    Sent/puri i(32 puri rest sent 0 warden) is the best build Ive found. Pure sent you dont gain much over getting the really big heal in puri which is a double heal really. Despite it being on a 30 sec CD it will be 60% plus of your total heals.

    I gave my build to a couple people and they are the only other clerics aside from me who hit 9-10k Hps (that Ive seen) and can compete with mage or warrior heals somewhat. I have seen sent builds do 6k hps on average, which isnt bad, but not the best that can be done. Even iiiiii copied my build though he used to be pure sent. Hes probably way maxxed out and still cant get higher heals then when I play, but there are multiple tricks to it to truly understand maxxing it out. Sent advantage would be its easier to plsy, but if you know sent play this build would be advisable to try.

    My cleric is also not close to being maxxed out (10 more frags can be maxxed, no integrated enchants, no prophetic vials). If I spent the time Im sure my hps would spike to 12k, but grinding so many toons takes WAY too long if you only pvp and dont spend actual cash to buy frag mat boxes. Im trying to get my rogue, Arel, maxxed out (only 3 frags maxxed) to see what output they truly can do just to prove gear is pretty much crazy in this game since it takes forever to gear your frags (again by only pvping and not paying). At this point if I play just for kills I usually top the chart in a closely evened match. If Im gunning for wins its a different story since 90% of players dont know how to push, but I digress.

    On a comparison my mage, Anastaxius, was hitting 12k hps when bolstered at 69, but is now in the lvl 70 gearing phase and dropped in power for sure. However, since I know I will hit that power again, plus more when fragged and geared, Im guessing Ill be hitting 14k hps high end with a good 8k or more sustained in full matches. It will be some time before Im at that point but Im sure I will reach it.

    Edit: the hybrid build still uses crucial invocation and has most the heals in sent. You macro crucial and healing flare after so your mastery kicks in to auto cast crucials after 3 healing flares. You just keep moving (a good thing in pvp) and thats a simple macro with BOL also in there. You get three sent defense utility and the extra Break Free as well. Basically most the umph of sent with the biggest heal in game on auto crit by going puri. My faiths freedom usually crits 160k and its second heal after 6 seconds is around 120k. I dont use wards (I used to) and simply spam healing flare into crucials as main healing. 0 warden you can pre-hot people with healing spray and shields from puri so first contact your team has the advantage. You also get two (yes two) aoe cleanses plus a FULL cleanse. Just some bonuses for my hybrid build.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 04-20-2020 at 01:02 PM.

  12. #27
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    .....
    Just no... You don't get it. You have to play the other classes to really get it. You don't know how to heal with the other classes if you are still stuck on healing numbers. Anyone who reduces the healing done in warfront down to HPS only as a pure determination of if a healer is good or not is not someone to take advice from. There is at least 6 different reasons I can tell why warchanter and FK/Chloro are better and possibly more if I think about it that has absolutely nothing at all to do with HPS. Plus, sent hybrid is NO GOOD. Hint Removing damage done is more effective than the 20% that Sent adds as a hybrid. Cleric , Rogue, and Primalist are sort of support healers to the better healers like Warrior and Mage right now.

    As for DPS Cleric is severely hard counter. In fact the game is only working for cleric because of mis matchmaking and having RNG gear drop and fragments. If everyone had max gear score clerics would suffer tremendously even the good clerics simply because of the hard counter built into the game for clerics in PvP. If you played Cleric DPS and you first hand experienced what EVERY class can do .. minus the 2 button users that have 0 utility or usable skills on the bar you would be astonished about how cleric was designed(Mostly to fail and even the case that Clerics counter themselves by dealing more damage to self than they can to other players!)
    Last edited by Aedynn; 04-22-2020 at 04:07 AM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Just no... You don't get it. You have to play the other classes to really get it. You don't know how to heal with the other classes if you are still stuck on healing numbers. Anyone who reduces the healing done in warfront down to HPS only as a pure determination of if a healer is good or not is not someone to take advice from. There is at least 6 different reasons I can tell why warchanter and FK/Chloro are better and possibly more if I think about it that has absolutely nothing at all to do with HPS. Plus, sent hybrid is NO GOOD. Hint Removing damage done is more effective than the 20% that Sent adds as a hybrid. Cleric , Rogue, and Primalist are sort of support healers to the better healers like Warrior and Mage right now.

    As for DPS Cleric is severely hard counter. In fact the game is only working for cleric because of mis matchmaking and having RNG gear drop and fragments. If everyone had max gear score clerics would suffer tremendously even the good clerics simply because of the hard counter built into the game for clerics in PvP. If you played Cleric DPS and you first hand experienced what EVERY class can do .. minus the 2 button users that have 0 utility or usable skills on the bar you would be astonished about how cleric was designed(Mostly to fail and even the case that Clerics counter themselves by dealing more damage to self than they can to other players!)
    You obviously dont read all my posts. I already know hps isnt the base to everything. See any of MULTIPLE posts Ive made on mage/warrior and broken shielding AND how warrior is a semi built in tank with the highest heals in game. Like, you know, I listed everything you just pointed out as reasons why it needs a look over. Also, Ive mentioned several times in several posts I have ALL 70’s. I have healed on every single healing soul in game.

    I mention hps as a baseline to start, which it is. Shielding and damage mitigation are next, then utility. The worth of a healer is much more then even just shielding or mitigation. For example, my hybrid cleric has two aoe cleanses and a full cleanse, which I did mention. Damage mitigation at its best.

    Summary: you replied to the guy whose talked a lot more then you about said issues, as if I didnt take them into account or know about them.

    My cleric outheals ~90% of players and has great damage mitigation, pre-hots and shielding, a contingent auto heal, and pre-shielding abilities, if you want a breakdown. Ive sat at 9-10k hps and had wfs where I reached 7 million overall heals. Its also not easy to kill the build. Is it broken like warrior? No. Hence my posts about looking at warrior heals in pvp and its shielding. Is it a valuable contributor in pvp? Yes. Do most clerics who jump into pvp know how to maximize it. No.

    On my rogue I sometimes bard/phys it. I can get 9k hps AND debuff in good wfs along with cleansing and party buffs

    On my mage Im getting basic pvp gear, but I sit at around 6.5 hps with good wfs sitting at 9k hps. It also adds shields and I regularly barrier swap.

    The only clear outliers in pvp are warriors with the best tankiness, flat damage mitigation, and highest heals. I dont really want to compare cleric to warrior, however, because I feel its wrong to compare to something thats broken vs. discussing where cleric should be. For example I dont believe cleric should heal like a warrior, because warrior needs a fix to be balanced. Rather, cleric heals should be increased in their upper tree talents and abilities to be more on par.

    As for gear: You cant begin to fix balance if the gear isnt reasonably attainable to be equal among all participants. This is called scaling, and is a whole other discussion. If you dont fix gearing, you end up with HUGE outliers on certain specs and callings as more players gravitate towards the popular builds and they gear up. You are saying we should keep this atrocious RNG?

    You really should read my posts before replying. I literally have several pvp posts discussing all of the aforementioned.

    Hybrid puri/sent brings tons to the table and has the highest hps along with its utility and better survivability, so I flat out disagree with you stating its no good. Its actually the best build a cleric can have that Ive seen.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 04-27-2020 at 03:02 PM.

  14. #29
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Hybrid puri/sent brings tons to the table and has the highest hps along with its utility and better survivability, so I flat out disagree with you stating its no good. Its actually the best build a cleric can have that Ive seen.
    If I had a choice of a puri/sent or a puri/cab I would probably pick puri/cab. The preventative damage may not be registered as healing on the scoreboard but preventing a player from getting burst by multiple others is just as effective or even more effective than healing. I have seen them push entire parties back when played right which is extremely rare but they are out there. The only thing that puri/sent has over it is stacking power with other healers. Puri/Cab can't stack well with eachother.. however they also are great at passively interrupting other player cappings. It is by far one of the best and most versatile uses of a hybrid puri.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 04-30-2020 at 06:16 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    If I had a choice of a puri/sent or a puri/cab I would probably pick puri/cab. The preventative damage may not be registered as healing on the scoreboard but preventing a player from getting burst by multiple others is just as effective or even more effective than healing. I have seen them push entire parties back when played right which is extremely rare but they are out there. The only thing that puri/sent has over it is stacking power with other healers. Puri/Cab can't stack well with eachother.. however they also are great at passively interrupting other player cappings. It is by far one of the best and most versatile uses of a hybrid puri.
    Im only referring to pvp when I talk in my threads, just for reference. I cant speak to the puri/cab build. I never built one, nor have I seen anyone play one in this current type of play. If they did I didnt notice them, or maybe they werent playing it properly. I looked through the tree, and I can definitely see it being a point taker/preventer, but not healing or any significant healing prevention. The game is just too fast-paced now. Multiple players would kill you during their break free immunity. Let alone players with three break frees. Utility builds arent what they used to be, at all.

    Even wIth the puri full-heal if there are multiple (3 or more) dps on one player they can literally die in 1 second, so if you just hit a 1.5 gcd you might not even make it to push your button even though your tapping it. That is literally how much damage people do. Most people have ~265k or so hp in a wf and several, SEVERAL souls hit normal attacks and procs for 30-50k hits with finishers doing 60k plus or more when you add in proc damage and passive damages.

    I.e. cab wouldnt assist anyone living through dps now really and CC isnt much help either.

    Most my old builds utilized utility and CC to outplay people. Todays game spamming your dps macro is the go-to method since damage far outstrips most utility. If you didnt know it, they upped dps by 100% last year to counter farseer (wrong approach). They then nerfed farseer (proving they had no clue how to fix said issue). Currently your best dps outstrips your best heals in pure numbers. Warrior would be the only exception since its broken and is the tankiest and best healer with the best shielding (so its worth is way more then its actual hps which outstrips every other heal class despite them not even having such shielding mitigation). So a 3 pronged problem.

    Everyone just has their break frees macroed into every button-that should tell you enough.

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