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Thread: Tank Hybrid for clerics?

  1. #1
    Rift Master Skiye's Avatar
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    Default Tank Hybrid for clerics?

    Was brainstorming tank/healer hybrids for cleric since the cadence spam rogue tank has become a popular option, especially in Isiel.

    This is based off my Defihealer build.

    https://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#...xg/rkghIw|PI_0

    For legendaries I'd do Miserly, Rage Extraction, Salvation, Wasting Insignia, and Insignia of Blood


    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Shas's Avatar
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    Hmm missing the 0.5 sec gcd PLUS the guardbuff resulting in an overall output loss :/

    Not sure about going that high into Justicar. We used it here and there by simply redoing your defihealer without setting the taunt to leggy while watching out when having 2+ Stacks - you may want to hesitate spaming greed abilities and sync it with the bosses attackrate.

    When using a stressful piano-offtank there really is nor reason to run a 61MT doing nothing that stealing threat. Simply run it with a Warlord, Bardstalker/ NBT - Harbingertank. With everyone in the group running ona normal threatlevel a taunt is enough to keep the attention. Based on the main heal knowing how to play.

    When playing such a dodgy dodgy offtank be sure to get one stack at the start of the engagement and then retaunt ASAP when your stacks are about to fall off since they protect you from the Missile Barrage. While your Tankbuddy provides guard for you.

    The bonus on just redoing the spec with taunt is that you simply leggy the Taunt and then use the very same spec as default bis soft support on Isiel. When struggling you can always go with the hp trinket and/or use a shiled which won't effect your Salvation.

    cheers

  3. #3
    Rift Master Skiye's Avatar
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    My thought is you'd switch to mein of honor for the threat reduction and boost to damage and healing when not tanking. While that is up you also gain a drastic threat reduction.

    The output loss would only be when you have threat with mein of leadership up. You also would get a shield half the time you cast a greed spell. Swap a point and you can make that 100% of the time, but that may be Overkill with the self hps you'd have.

    Appreciate the thoughts Shas. You always have good inputs.
    Last edited by Skiye; 01-30-2019 at 09:00 AM.
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  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Shas's Avatar
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    Sure man.

    Since i mayelf maximise the Affliction spam which makes it a 4x6x(healing) / sec and it's stronger than Monsun which already benefits from 1.0 sec gcd, the threatbuff/gcd change may better stay a separate Variant.
    Last edited by Shas; 01-30-2019 at 12:25 PM.

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    Justicar/Druid would probably have some sick AE. Cleric tank AE has always been pretty sweet. Druidicar and Just/Druid have been mentioned going as far back as the original game. I would try to focus on more cooldown and dps than healing hybrid tanking because healing is already trivialized. CD like damage reduction etc are more important in my opinion for the later raids. As for older content, those builds worked already.. like dungeons and LFG raids. Puri/Tank for the second boss in BoS looks interesting as well.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 02-06-2019 at 11:59 PM.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Shas's Avatar
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    What are the numbers on Healing Feary atm? Healing crystals effect etc? binding it's abilities you can manualy pull them off which might be a fun gain? (while being able to swap to the dps one midfight)

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    If you have the gcd reduction talents I think you could reach 200-300k thps with dispersion active. It'll depend a lot on how much spell power you have.

    I don't believe the crystals impact it since they're not your casts but it may be worth testing.

    You can macro the pet abilities I believe.

    /petcast abilityname

    I think that's how it works. Haven't had any pet abilities in macros since vanilla. But I believe that at least used to work.
    Last edited by Skiye; 02-07-2019 at 09:13 AM.
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    When Trion got rid of 20 man raids they still kept bosses that require 2 tanks. That remains a problem for the game. Bosses that require 2 tanks shouldn't exist in 10 man raids. With the change, you can possibly have a healer with a taunt for most of the bosses to act as the alternative Tank and now bring third support or dps. I feel this would be the new meta going forward. Like for instance an FK healer with some tank points or a puri with some tank points etc.

    Maybe with new content, something else is planned but I really think at this point that this is the plan they have going forward. If they bring back 20 man content which I doubt I can see 2 hybrid tanks or full tanks etc being used again. So imagine warchanter hybrid tanking Commander with the primary tank. That is space for another DPS, Support or whatever..
    Last edited by Aedynn; 02-07-2019 at 06:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Bosses that require 2 tanks shouldn't exist in 10 man raids.
    Regardless of Rift, I think it makes sense to design 10 man raids for 2 tanks.
    If there are too few raid slots for tanks in a MMORPG there is the possibility that you end up with a too small tank population to provide enough tanks for 5 player group content. Even games like Final Fantasy 14 with raids for maximum 8 players need up to 2 tanks because the 4 man group content needs 1 tank each.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamul View Post
    Regardless of Rift, I think it makes sense to design 10 man raids for 2 tanks.
    If there are too few raid slots for tanks in a MMORPG there is the possibility that you end up with a too small tank population to provide enough tanks for 5 player group content. Even games like Final Fantasy 14 with raids for maximum 8 players need up to 2 tanks because the 4 man group content needs 1 tank each.
    You don't have to turn to other games to see it would have little effect on dungeon content. For the most part, support role was basically nonexistent in 5 mans and it still shows up in raids. Archons, Bard hybrids etc. Same with healers when you consider the tank healing synergy from classes even to the point where you literally have 4 dps and a hybrid tank healer for the 5 man.

    The reason why you see so little tanks in Rift is because of the obscure and broken policy of having to acquire a whole extra sweet of expensive gear to tediously grind in the same process of playing dps and being award exclusively dps gear for quest chains for the most part. One does not usually level as a full healer or tank or support for that matter. Not that they can't but it would be an inefficient process. If they did actually force one primo gear to rule all roles it would have opened up every single player to the opportunity to tank as everyone would be working towards the best gear for every role and it would not be a choice they had to make. In all cases it restricted playability for the gamer.

    You also have to consider there was not anytime I can remember where you needed 4 tanks for a 20 man and if so it must have been extremely rare so the idea that post content would effect prior content seems to not be logical.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 02-08-2019 at 06:28 AM.

  11. #11
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    My consideration was also more related to the basic design of MMORPGS which uses a classic tank-heal-dps meta.

    Due to the hybrids, Rift is hard to divide into classic structures like we know them from other games anyway.

    The possibility of tank hybrids will probably turn the classic raid meta upside down. Support hybrids (Tacbard, Wardocle, Defihealer) have already replaced the classic raid healers whose only task was to heal.

    In the future tanks will probably take over tasks of the supporters and healers or replace them completely.
    Maybe some DD hybrid tank variants are so strong that they are preferred over support/heal tanks.

    I am curious how the meta will change in the future and what kind of hybrid specs the community will create.
    Last edited by Bamul; 02-08-2019 at 08:55 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamul View Post
    In the future tanks will probably take over tasks of the supporters and healers or replace them completely.
    Well, I think you will always need a tank to share guard with the group but say if you need an off tank then it can be like a healer or support instead which makes sense for the OP build as long as it can maintain aggro. Warrior and chloro healers pull so much aggro in my opinion they just need enough points to taunt but not sure about how good defihealer can maintain aggro.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 02-08-2019 at 07:51 AM.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Shas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    Well, I think you will always need a tank to share guard with the group[...]
    Warrs get guard with 6 pts @pala/vk so 2 ot's are fine while pala guardbuff doesn't add threat. that way all 10 people are on a compareable threatlevel and a taunt is enough to keep the attention.

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    Mages get guard, block and increased threat generation by 300% with 8 points and can increase the radius of guard with the 65 mastery Eldritch Swiftness. Are there more points needed to share guard with the group? I have no experience with the mage as a tank.

    Theoretically, the mage only needs 8 points (or 12 points for bosses where tank switch is needed) in the tank soul which leaves a lot of room for hybrid specs.
    Last edited by Bamul; 02-09-2019 at 08:01 AM.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Shas's Avatar
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    10/10 sneaky use for linking another post xD

    Warr/Mage > Primalist > Cleric > Rogue

    that's the top-to worst utility/ offtank class with mage running brutal healing with the littelest points in chloromancer already. Warrior has the huge benefit in not having to run a threat generating buff for the main tanking stats. This means that you can run pretty much run ANY ot and not having to fear that the cleric etc just steals all the stacks.
    The upcomming hybrid meta loads more and more on the tank player so let's hope everyone else gets off the passenger mode.
    (Tanking defilerheal support with a onebutton tempest in the group is a slap in the face)
    Last edited by Shas; 02-10-2019 at 02:08 PM.

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