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Thread: dear trion, how to improve cleric (damage)

  1. #16
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skiye View Post
    On my phone right now but I'll post one later on.

    https://i.imgur.com/5Wh8HXH.png

    No food or non shaman buffs. Did have a power stone on but I usually do since i mostly raid log on this character. I don't play shaman a ton so I didn't do a great job of keeping life surge up either.

    At most i'm noticing a 100k-150k dps loss. Not that noticeable. Seen way bigger drops on rogue, primalist, druid, and warrior.
    Vengeance use to be around 21% of a parse in L.IoB, and about 23% with L. BoJ however in T2 L.IoB was better by around 100Kish because of how fast EoL was being consumed in comparison to L.BoJ. You may have lost a few damage points and crit chance but you gained more attacks per min with EoL/L.IoB. So you may not have seen as big a drop in your shaman build. You can look up the parses on Prancing Turtle, and the shaman 2 button thread for confirmation.
    Not the best parse but we are looking at vengeance contributions only.
    https://prancingturtle.com/Encounter...ity&filter=all
    https://prancingturtle.com/Encounter...ity&filter=all

    First 2 post show the percentage of Vengeance contributing to your dps. 20+ percent. I have seen it higher than 23% actually!
    http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...2-buttons.html

    I can confirm it was like that before nerfs. Rogue also is not in bad position with Hellfire MM and 61 NB build. Actually I really think MM is better than shaman now and it is a range spec. As for taking a huge hit. I can agree with this but they were already far far ahead. It is true with nerfs they are not as far ahead. Mage is also decently ahead. Actually warrior is not so bad but they need more people to theorycraft builds. They have been the most dumb down class for ages with how silly it was to play chantion. Not that you can't do content with cleric but just seems they are now considered the bottom with no real advantage to taking them as a dps, support or healer still. Chantion is still viable and still does good dps for an ST healer. Also, people are deciding not to bring any hybrid secondary support just to hit dps checks.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 07-15-2018 at 05:52 PM.

  2. #17
    Sword of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    I'm going with the belief that Shaman got nerfed a little just from what I'm noticing in game, though I can't be sure.

    If there was a slight nerf to Shaman and a big nerf to Druid, then I'm assuming Inq is now the best ST spec. Inq certainly wasn't effected by any buff changes, in that regard it's a fairly well made tree with no confusing multipliers.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    I'm going with the belief that Shaman got nerfed a little just from what I'm noticing in game, though I can't be sure.

    If there was a slight nerf to Shaman and a big nerf to Druid, then I'm assuming Inq is now the best ST spec. Inq certainly wasn't effected by any buff changes, in that regard it's a fairly well made tree with no confusing multipliers.
    If you are talking about using inquisitor in melee/near melee range with the armor mastery instead of the one for cleaving it is almost the same as shaman now in pure ST. Shaman still destroys it for AE. Druid is still clerics top dps spec but it was made even worse to play in the current content than before. It did lose the most dps though. So right now I would say Druid is better than Shaman which is similar or slightly better than Inquisitor on a dummy parse depending on which mastery you use. But mostly shaman is competitive to other classes of these specs in practical use like raids and that is only if cleric can melee. If you are still top dps in your raid as a cleric you are carrying some really undergeared players or something is wrong about the way they play or do the fight. Our best cleric can top dps on BoS 2 but that is because we make him handle all the AE and rest do mostly ST with some cleave with the melee strat. And in this situation you may want to even use the inquisitor variant of shaman to get more AE than the IOB version which is more ST. That is how they manage to parse really high on that fight by actually focusing on maximizing shaman AE damage by lowering its ST dps output.The trade off is pretty good if you know you will be doing that job.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 08-11-2018 at 12:06 PM.

  4. #19
    Telaran
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    It's Always fun to hear al kind of thought's how to do bos 2 , it looks like al you guys have no mage's in youre raids.

    My point is if you have 2 good elementalist players that will do the job on adds, and it's pure cleave so they don't lose ST damage on the boss.

    Second point is, you have to 50% on isiel to kill the adds , so why worry to kill them instandly, mayby the tanks have to learn all there skills.

    so poke youre healers to learn and keep the tanks alive

    But putting you best clerics in specs other then inq is pretty bad, same for rogues after 4.5 they have onely one spec and that is MM for this fight.

    mayby what will help is download latest version of riftmeter, that meter will devide the fight in 2 part's so when isiel pops riftmeter starts again and you will see the dps drop of all the weird specs

  5. #20
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by faabs View Post
    But putting you best clerics in specs other then inq is pretty bad, same for rogues after 4.5 they have onely one spec and that is MM for this fight.
    Thank you very much, i started to think that i'm the only one finding it weird in some pugs to see shamans only hitting aoe skills at 2nd boss, doing 500-600k st dps on the boss (obviously cleaving good, but who needs that with proper setup).

    lately i even saw a cabbalist ^^, it seems some raidleads only look at the riftmeter, don't sort by ST dps and wonder why they can't kill the boss until enrage, but the adds went down fast!

    i have the feeling that inquisitor is way underrated in the cleric world

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kugelschreiber View Post
    Thank you very much, i started to think that i'm the only one finding it weird in some pugs to see shamans only hitting aoe skills at 2nd boss, doing 500-600k st dps on the boss (obviously cleaving good, but who needs that with proper setup).

    lately i even saw a cabbalist ^^, it seems some raidleads only look at the riftmeter, don't sort by ST dps and wonder why they can't kill the boss until enrage, but the adds went down fast!

    i have the feeling that inquisitor is way underrated in the cleric world
    We don't pug. It is rare. We try to get someone who is already geared up to come in and help most of the time. We don't ditch our guildies or friends because they don't play a specific class. In fact they know when they are holding players back and offer to be replaced. We try to make our raids work with what players want to play and most of them have common sense enough to know what overall is good to bring to raid.

    In this case we even choose to bring an ALT or friend as a carry because most of the time they can be successful with the group. We just don't ditch them for a pug because their class isn't the most ideal for the raid setup. Shaman can do well on BoS2 in certain setups. Inquisitor is not necessarily the best choice in some setups. Inquisitor is of course best if you use range method though. Most people probably never even did ping pong method which gets most benefit off your trinkets and a faster kill time. They just use the range method because it is slightly easier to coordinate 10 players to do it in a pug.

    What I was trying to say and maybe it went over your head Shaman doing AE can finish that fight top dps or be very competitive with other classes range AE/cleave specs but it is very edge case scenario for them. If you use ping pong method your dps on boss isn't as low as you think with shaman as well. Of course you wouldn't be able to imagine that if you only did range method.

    Also, one other point. Your idea of bringing the right "raid setup" is not something I consider healthy. I already explained the reason why above. When Rift gave classes healing souls and other classes similar supports and tank souls the idea behind it was to bring the player not the class. This is one reason why your ideal setup is bad. The other reason availability. If we need an ideal setup for every raid encounter we would not be able to raid often and most of the player base that cares to raid would need to be axed off because they picked classes that were overly used and not able to find raid spots. The ideal setup only extended down toward the roles necessary and stopped. If a boss needed two tanks it can be whatever any class, if it needed two healers it can be healers from whatever class. Same with dps. You can see them adding similar debuffs from other classes to primalist as if they were working toward that direction just no quid pro quo because of paused class development. Or maybe they totally lost track on the obvious direction to go. They even wanted to make eternal buffs homogeneous and a self buff at one point but that never happened. They had the idea but never executed.

    It was suppose to be like that with supports but Keyens left Rift before he worked on that. There was really never suppose to be secondary vs primary support classes just 1 but it was made this way because they liked the designs of some classes. Ideally though archon and bard would have been our next payed for souls for classes if they wanted to keep those designs intact. But then they went on a tangent for whatever reason. Maybe they wanted to make a Picasso design more than bring healthy class balance to the game? Who knows? They should consider future designs as not working on a blank canvas but rather finishing off a masterpiece. There is no reason for classes with 11-12 souls to not have all the necessary functionality for each raid. Do you wonder why we are still missing certain interchangeable raid spots for classes? I do.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 08-11-2018 at 08:26 AM.

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