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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Clerics and Strength

  1. #16
    Ascendant forbiddenlake's Avatar
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    > Note: this is not troll/baiting,

    I was with you until this:

    > Warrior is the only class that has been crapped on

    Anyway, must we have this argument here, too?

  2. #17
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forbiddenlake View Post
    > Note: this is not troll/baiting,

    I was with you until this:

    > Warrior is the only class that has been crapped on

    Anyway, must we have this argument here, too?
    Sure, im wondering why that statement got you caught up o.o
    Last edited by Semiso; 11-05-2017 at 07:10 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semiso View Post
    Warrior is the only class that has been crapped on,....Clerics or no other class are in no position to complain about being underperforming than warriors.
    Cleric is the only class in 5 or 6 years that had no competitive dps soul in the start of every new raid.( Last I remember is was not a single target soul but cabalist that was OP for AoE soul in RoS.)

    They had to wait until a raid or expansion was nearly over for changes to become more competitive in older raids. In NT they were down from an average 10%+ of the next worse class up to and in this expansion a whopping 60% deficit on the top best class. Guess who was doing the top dps that was 60% above cleric? Warrior Tempest! They were doing that sort of DPS for a long time too. They did it in LFR raids and IROTP when later it was nerfed below rogue and Primalist was buffed to take over both of them.

    (Because of scaling issues that % grew within the raid. Let us say cleric were 10% below then after everyone geared up it would be something close to 20% below forcing the devs to revisit shaman like a half dozen times in one expansion. That scaling issue is one of the biggest reasons why in this expansion you saw such a crazy deficit of 60%. The gear score in this expansion is much much higher so the percentage deficit became much higher and the devs have designed procs that have been mostly problematic for everyone seeking balance.)

    Warrior is arguably still better than cleric and scales better in the current gearing algorithm. They absolutely demolish cleric in viability in PvP. And I doubt Trion will make warrior feel a glimpse of being under every other class like cleric because it would make those players angry.You are kind of a good example though of how a player that gets knocked off its really high pedestal shortly behaves after being the most Overpowered and broken class in the expansion.

    I literally had people post responses to my 6 month threads to tell me cleric is fine. Waiting 6 months to be barely competitive in PvE and almost non existent in PvP? If you are happy with that then so be it. Cleric shouldn't have to wait until the end of a raid or expansion to be competitive. The best thing right now for devs to do is just keep cleric at a lower dps like usual and just bring back their spot as the ONLY good healer or support because 10 mans need dedicated spots unlike 20 man where you can hide the cleric shortcomings much easier. And help them out in PvP. No reason why they have to be the worse healer and tanks in PvP along with the worse dps and support in both.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 11-06-2017 at 09:29 AM.

  4. #19
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    They had to wait until a raid or expansion was nearly over for changes to become more competitive in older raids. In NT they were down from an average 10%+ of the next worse class up to and in this expansion a whopping 60% deficit on the top best class. Guess who was doing the top dps that was 60% above cleric? Warrior Tempest! They were doing that sort of DPS for a long time too. They did it in LFR raids and IROTP when later it was nerfed below rogue and Primalist was buffed to take over both of them.
    back when warrior TEMPEST was being all OP and dank was cuz it was broken, skyfall was top dps back then which cleaved Everything at range, now i would say every class are ablt to outdps a Tempest if fully geared and thats INCLUDING rogues, who had the ****tiest range spec until nightblade came along and until MM got recently buffed.

    Because of scaling issues that % grew within the raid. Let us say cleric were 10% below then after everyone geared up it would be something close to 20% below forcing the devs to revisit shaman like a half dozen times in one expansion. That scaling issue is one of the biggest reasons why in this expansion you saw such a crazy deficit of 60%. The gear score in this expansion is much much higher so the percentage deficit became much higher
    .
    Yea...........thats why clerics are top healers now........... (btw almost every class is broken because of scaling issues)

    Warrior is arguably still better than cleric and scales better in the current gearing algorithm. I doubt Trion will make warrior feel a glimpse of being under every other class like cleric in the next raid.You are kind of the best example though of how a class that gets knocked off its pedestal for a little while behaves even after being the most Overpowered and broken class in the expansion so far.
    ...

    You do know that several warriors got tired of trions constant ignore of warrior issues and left the game cuz of it, right?
    And about warrior scaling better than cleric in this current algorithm, you are wrong, cuz warriors actually got nerfed on several of their specs because of the eternal Changes. Now as i mentioned Before, their only top dps spec is a spec that is melee, only has a 3m range and does dps by proccing HEALS, thats right you Heard me right, a hybrid spec doing ST heals is warriors current top dps............

    I literally had people post responses to me 6 months later to tell me cleric is fine. Waiting 6 months to be barely competitive in PvE and almost non existent in PvP? If you are happy with that then so be it.
    Sure if you were not a Sentinel in pvp, then you were pretty bad. Otherwise i feel like you have been sleeping under a rock lately.

    The best thing right now for devs to do is just keep cleric at a lower dps like usual and just bring back their spot as the ONLY good healer or support. But I think they are waiting to rehash the game in hardmode to do anything like that since healing atm is sort joke and maybe the rehash will bring back 20 mans where clerics can hide their devalued state in bigger raids.
    I mean assuming you dont have Tempest and arent planning to buy it, what would you do to stay competitive in terms of heals, tanking and dps?

    Best example is look at the guide sections of both clerics and warriors and tell me which one is more of a graveyard.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnusualBunny View Post
    Sounds like you haven't played cleric recently in PvE / raids. cant argue much about the PvP part tho.
    The cleric is relying on a weapon proc to be competitive in raids. Remove it or scale the stats out of its gear range and you are back to being something close to 20% behind other classes. This is one of many reasons why the cleric has been poor in PvP but this is very important for future players to understand since it means the class is at the mercy of weapon procs more than any other class for balance. And as you can see it took a huge period of time to get weapons fixed.

    As for mechanics and gameplay?? Clerics have Druid and that's mostly it? It isn't fun to play and it is a niche spec with terrible PvP functionality.They make a spec that is unenjoyable and super niche but must play it to compete in one or two bosses on current raid.

    I still think cleric is bad investment for new players but only now it is at least worth playing if you invested anything into it. Trion set a precedent for the classes with such a big imbalance early on that hit cleric harshly. Basically they allowed the other classes to grow its player base by shrinking the cleric player base instead of growing the playerbase overall. Shockingly this basically was counter productive to going back to free to play. Keeping cleric okay in PvE is keeping a lot of players in other classes unhappy until they adjust.

    It is complex now because they really make pvp bad so instead of being bad for cleric it is just bad for all making it equal which I can see as a legit way to push more players out of Rift.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 11-17-2017 at 11:15 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semiso View Post
    back when warrior TEMPEST was being all OP and dank was cuz it was broken,
    There are still problems with cleric. They need better support soul option.Bards and its hybrid healing should not have been allowed to dominate both the healing and support scene in one spec.

    That is why rogue was such a burden to the cleric class and it ruined the expansion. The worse dps deficit in the history of Rift belonged to cleric at time and Trion didn't even give them a healing or support option to fall back on.
    Trion still hasn't done much to prevent this from happening. In fact they make it quite easily for this to happen again and again and again with the eternal band aid fix.

    Warrior is in bad position too but they are both similar in my opinion. Archon is too OP for support making warrior not as good of a choice therefore less used. But warrior still have some really good designed souls. And for range class. I haven't tested cleric inquisitors in awhile but I hear that to get competitive top dps clerics are forced to take another legendary and mastery that removed its mobility making it a turret spec and have to sit in melee practically to refresh FS. This is a very poor design for a range soul. Add that to druid design and you have some of the worse designs for range and melee in the game with long cds channels, self inflicting damage, and long set up to burst which adds terrible target switching etc. It is not a learning curve thing they have terrible design in comparison to other classes. I think best comparison is reaver where it has to move in to attack but 10x worse in playability than reaver.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 11-18-2017 at 12:22 AM.

  7. #22
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    There are a bunch of 1h maces in game that come with STR/END which are meant for warriors and for example daggers that come with DEX/END which are for rogues. They are rated for all the classes that can equip those weapons, but it doesn't mean they would be more useful for a Cleric.

    Same level items though with STR/END as opposed to WIS/END have a higher DPS on them as well.

    I don't think it applies to armor, only the 1h weapons that are shareable between the classes.

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