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Thread: Recently returned to RIFT, is Cleric DPS acceptable for raiding?

  1. #16
    Rift Master Refuge's Avatar
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    I would argue warriors are worse than clerics at the moment. They have huge burst but soon level out. Inquisitors have a very strong burst initiation, and often will top meters when combined with archon buffs (these synergize really well for us) but we are very gear dependent. Unfortunately if a correctly specced and geared primalist is in the fight, that will completely outshadow you. Mages and Rogues are also notably stronger when equal in gear.

    Personally I'm happy where we are, other than Primalists which are a joke at the moment, I hold my ground well and beat most other classes unless they know their class well and are well geared.
    Last edited by Refuge; 08-25-2017 at 04:25 PM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  2. #17
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    all classes have been always acceptable dps for raiding it just depends who is behind the monitor

  3. #18
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    I have noticed that many clerics have adopted this mentality lately. They have went from "bring the player not the class" to "being good enough in a personal box(usually very small) so they are content."

    I will never be persuaded from what I think is right. Nor do I share any bias toward any class. I will also look at classes from a micro and macro level when determining their overall performance. Therefore for me, personally, I don't feel that cleric is worth playing and investing time or money on. Cleric has the least return in investment of all the classes with primalist and rogue having the best return so far this expansion. In this case the box that I am inside is also much larger than most other players in general and reflective of how they perform not only in top end raiding scenario but in all raiding scenarios in this expansion and also most pvp avenues available.

    As for warrior and martial classes, they have better scaling. In late game, given equal skill and gear score warrior WILL perform better than cleric in the largest amount of raiding scenarios offered this expansion and majority of PvP scenarios. Closest competition clerics have are mages. However, this gap fluctuates depending on the personal view point of the individual player. For the most part we have players who just consider 1 boss, or one experience, or one raid so that gap can be small where for me, who continues to consider all scenarios the gap is actually much larger.

    As was mentioned, many clerics left playing the game have been trained to adopt the current status quo of their class as "being acceptable and good enough." Many who have invested into the class also seek as many reasons to make their investment seem lucrative. Basically self denial. This has been going on for awhile. And the mentality of other players who play other classes would experience a huge negative impact on player participation if they ever adopted the same status quo of being just good enough but still throttling the bottom line like current cleric players. There was once an exception to the rule for cleric and other classes where they would perform well as being the best healing class in PvP and PvE but as many players can tell you that is no longer the case because of outliers like bard hybrids and OP FK healers. In reality healing has become a running joke this expansion overall that players have tried to use overhealing or wasted healing with 0 impact to justify clerics placement. Cleric also have very heavy nerfs in pvp and mechanical problems and are currently the most countered healers in the game on top of having zero impactful overhealing in raids.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 09-11-2017 at 09:11 AM.

  4. #19
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    The Raidstats are

    Ereandorn - DPS - Place 1-10 - 8x Primalists, 2x Rogues
    Ereandorn - HPS - Place 1-10 - 10x Rogues

    Beruhast - DPS - Place 1-10 - 8x Primalists, 2x Rogues
    Beruhast - HPS - Place 1-10 - 10x Rogues

    General Silgen - DPS - Place 1-10 - 10x Primalists
    General Silgen - HPS - Place 1-10 - 7x Rogues, 3x Mages

    High Priest Arakhurn - DPS - Place 1-10 - 8x Primalists, 2x Rogues
    High Priest Arakhurn - HPS - Place 1-10 - 8x Rogues, 1x Mage, 1x Cleric

    Beligosh - DPS - Place 1-10 - 7x Rogues, 3x Primalists
    Beligosh - HPS - Place 1-10 - 7x Rogues, 3x Mages

    TarJulia - DPS - Place 1-10 - 4x Primalists, 4x Rogues, 2x Mages
    TarJulia - HPS - Place 1-10 - 8x Rogues, 2x Mages

    Council of Fate - DPS - Place 1-10 - 7x Rogues, 2x Primalists, 1x Warrior
    Council of Fate - HPS - Place 1-10 - 6x Rogues, 3x Mage, 1x Cleric

    Malannon - DPS - Place 1-10 - 9x Primalists, 1x Rogue
    Malannon - HPS - Place 1-10 - 8x Rogues, 2x Mage


    Overall TOP 10 - DPS - 52x Primalist, 25x Rogues, 2x Mages, 1 Warrior
    Overall TOP 10 - HPS - 64x Rogues, 14 Mages, 2x Clerics


    Source:
    https://prancingturtle.com/Session/BossFight/145

    I play Cleric and it makes simply no fun anymore. I still upgrade my stuff but there is no way to reach the top classes. I asked for help here in the forum but i got no answer from a dev.

    http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...p-request.html

    I really dont know why i pay €12 each month for the game because they dont do anything for my class (and nothing for Mages and Warriors) so why should i pay there bills.

    Rift is still a good game and there is no reason to not comeback but pick up another class for your comeback because in the end you will not be happy with the Cleric.
    Last edited by Ora pro nobis; 09-11-2017 at 11:25 AM.
    be realistic let's try the impossible

  5. #20
    Rift Master Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    As for warrior and martial classes, they have better scaling. In late game, given equal skill and gear score warrior WILL perform better than cleric in the largest amount of raiding scenarios offered this expansion and majority of PvP scenarios. Closest competition clerics have are mages. However, this gap fluctuates depending on the personal view point of the individual player. For the most part we have players who just consider 1 boss, or one experience, or one raid so that gap can be small where for me, who continues to consider all scenarios the gap is actually much larger.
    .
    From my experience, I just don't find this to be true. I've always seemed to do better in ST long fights, but admittedly when looking at prancing turtle it seems warriors are reaching out in front.

    I still think you guys have your priorities wrong. Too much whining about our position when it's decent within a sensible range.

    Primalists are not sensible. Primalists are utterly disgusting. That is where your priorities should lie. Expecting them to be heavily nerfed before anything.

    In no way would I want clerics to be scaled up to try and meet the expectations of primalists. Firstly that would require 4 classes to be buffed rather than 1 class to be nerfed, and secondly content would become even more easier than it is. In terms of healing rogues and primalists need to be nerfed. It's just too much, and it's just too easy. I already find healing with warden fairly easy going, god knows how bored rogues and primalists get.

    Stop complaining about stuff when they simply aren't priority. As it's a completely wasted cause. You should be asking for nerfs, not buffs.
    Last edited by Refuge; 09-11-2017 at 01:32 PM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post

    Primalists are not sensible. Primalists are utterly disgusting. That is where your priorities should lie. Expecting them to be heavily nerfed before anything.
    Primalist already got nerfed 4 times in a row and lost around 5% of their total dps from all those nerfs.
    Give them a break already.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 09-11-2017 at 05:29 PM.

  7. #22
    Plane Touched bollesti's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    Primalist already got nerfed 4 times in a row and lost around 5% of their total dps from all those nerfs.
    Give them a break already.
    5% wow so much ....are you kidding me or what?primalist does 20% more dps thn the second best dps classe and with one button is this a joke?????and after 4 nerfs all that it loses is 5%???and you say leave it alone???clearly you traded your rogue and gone prime so it seems.Primalist is a abomination that only serves Trion s monetary agenda....best dps best heals best tank and support and you telling us to leave it alone???
    If it scares you, it might be a good thing to try.

  8. #23
    Rift Master Maltie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bollesti View Post
    5% wow so much ....are you kidding me or what?primalist does 20% more dps thn the second best dps classe and with one button is this a joke?????and after 4 nerfs all that it loses is 5%???and you say leave it alone???clearly you traded your rogue and gone prime so it seems.Primalist is a abomination that only serves Trion s monetary agenda....best dps best heals best tank and support and you telling us to leave it alone???
    He's joking

  9. #24
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bollesti View Post
    5% wow so much ....are you kidding me or what?primalist does 20% more dps thn the second best dps classe and with one button is this a joke?????and after 4 nerfs all that it loses is 5%???and you say leave it alone???clearly you traded your rogue and gone prime so it seems.Primalist is a abomination that only serves Trion s monetary agenda....best dps best heals best tank and support and you telling us to leave it alone???
    ^cant really confirm if guide writer above me is telling the truth

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    I still think you guys have your priorities wrong. Too much whining about our position when it's decent within a sensible range.
    What you consider decent is not what others would well not me because I am not the ordinary person.

    What are you trying to prove that is wrong? It has already been admitted on discord(also tested with variables that do not exist in the game consider it tier 4 gear and soft cap/hard cap) that cleric has a scaling problem in comparison to other martial classes.

    The self denial part comes in when you totally blank out on past changes that were sort of implemented to try and tackle the solution. Do you even realize they have changed some of the abilities to scale off of Crit Chance even after the cap?

    Unfortunately it is true. Many of the remaining clerics even vets have been molded.Yes, primalist is OP. We all know that. Actually they have been off and on OP for some time now. Eventually you will be okay with it too just like you are okay with the state of cleric. Just give yourself sometime to accept it. I also think if they were to make cleric OP for about 1 month it would be "good enough bait" to keep the ones that are in discontent happy as well. Aproximately 5-6 months. Yes a single month of being on top then being on bottom for half a year later. What I mean about being on top is not just raiding but pretty much how primalist and rogues were in the last two expansions.

    I don't consider myself an ordinary person so I have learned to accept that I have a certain depth of perception most other people don't have. It is actually sort of blessing and curse.

    All joking aside though this is how Trion makes sales. If this years cell phone isn't better than last years then why buy it? You have no incentive to buy. Primalist gets new souls and they want people to invest in it so its OP. It mostly boils down to this. I do understand that Primalist is not very hard to play and in some cases it has a lot of versatility but I like Rogue better in gameplay and some of the mage and clerics souls are fantastic and challenging.
    In my ideal MMO class locking would be frowned upon. For those who are willing to put an allowance to play rift just doesn't pay off for cleric at the moment. If you start over you can be better than cleric if play primalist. For instance, if you spent 10K trying to beef up your cleric even further you will find out that is how much it would have probably cost to get your primalist over cleric + being jacked up in PvP. At the moment cleric wouldn't be even my third choice if I were to start over again knowing the situation they are in.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 09-12-2017 at 08:02 AM.

  11. #26
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    Clerics don't really have scaling issue.
    Using the existing top end parse on Beruhast which is basically no mechanic and just tank and spank fight.

    The top cleric did 170k dps pure single target. (Top end gear with max eternal weapon lv7)

    The top warrior did 172k dps pure single target (Top end gear with max eternal weapon lv7)

    The top rogue did 180k dps pure single target (Top end gear with max eternal weapon lv7)

    The top mage did 169k dps pure single target (top end gear with the 2nd highest eternal weapon lv6)

    The top primalist (after nerf) did 226k dps pure single target (Top end geat with max eternal weapon lv7).

    Using cleric as base line
    Cleric: 170k (100%)
    Warrior: 172k (101%)
    Mage: 169k (99.4%) (this is with only eternal weapon 6)
    Rogue: 180k (105%)
    Primalist 226k (133%)

    Excluding mage since it's unfair as the said mage only has eternal 6

    So at top level play/gear in pure single target output potential.

    Clerics is only 1% behind warrior, and 5% behind rogue so the pure single target of all 4 original callings are actually closer than others making it out to be, all within ~5% (which is actually quite amazing considering all the wacky legendary abilities are in the mix).

    Clearly, primalist is 33% ahead of cleric (and 25% ahead of the #2 dps calling) which is clearly an outlier.

    So I wouldn't blame on scaling just yet, if anything, Inquisitor has very good scaling with gear judging by how much more dps Inquisitor has gained over the past 2 months.

    And remember this coming Wednesday Keyens already said cleric eternal weapon proc is receiving a significant buff which will greatly increase its uptime, and in tank and spank fights like Beruhast it wouldn't be hard to achieve 100% uptime which will inevitably help cleric dps significantly.

    I am not saying you are wrong, it's just that according to actual parses clerics are far from weak, and it also does not support the theory of "clerics scaling is broken compare to martial class callings" as all 4 classes other than primalist are all extremely close especially when cleric eternal weapon isn't even working properly currently.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 09-12-2017 at 07:51 AM.

  12. #27
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    Oh, come on Fate.

    This is the TOP 10 on Clerics and you only look at Bubbles ?

    #1 Bubbbles@Greybriar 1703918
    #2 Bielthan@Brutwacht 1313682
    #3 Aeli@Brutwacht 1286978
    #4 Tigert@Laethys 1235682
    #5 Therpeutic@Deepwood 1232836
    #6 Dragynkyn@Faeblight 1179248
    #7 Unusualbunny@Gelidra 1156883
    #8 Habad@Laethys 1139314
    #9 Fyel@Typhiria 1133559
    #10 Qehoren@Brutwacht 1064953

    or Warrior:

    1 Darkdaemon@Greybriar 1723423
    #2 Hendrikdawin@Brutwacht 1387355
    #3 Gurimujo@Deepwood 1370795
    #4 Duang@Laethys 1321470
    #5 Ellelittle@Laethys 1315960
    #6 Mechared@Laethys 1229064
    #7 Cayzer@Laethys 1226251
    #8 Vinsmoke@Deepwood 1223351
    #9 Tyael@Gelidra 1216198
    #10 Easssy@Laethys 1137679

    or Mage:

    #1 Speedyfeets@Greybriar 1688084
    #2 Skidrow@Hailol 1597544
    #3 Fedoa@Brutwacht 1174766
    #4 Dopemage@Deepwood 1093192
    #5 Lucith@Faeblight 1090018
    #6 Vothlo@Wolfsbane 1087674
    #7 Avengercrius@Laethys 1077040
    #8 Bamu@Brutwacht 1076576
    #9 Vyndraincubus@Brutwacht 1071851
    #10 Wilkoss@Gelidra 1041264

    All TOP Damagedealer are from Trinity based on a 00:01:21 Encounter.
    Last edited by Ora pro nobis; 09-12-2017 at 07:58 AM.
    be realistic let's try the impossible

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ora pro nobis View Post
    Oh, come on Fate.

    This is the TOP 10 on Clerics and you only look at Bubbles ?

    #1 Bubbbles@Greybriar 1703918
    #2 Bielthan@Brutwacht 1313682
    #3 Aeli@Brutwacht 1286978
    #4 Tigert@Laethys 1235682
    #5 Therpeutic@Deepwood 1232836
    #6 Dragynkyn@Faeblight 1179248
    #7 Unusualbunny@Gelidra 1156883
    #8 Habad@Laethys 1139314
    #9 Fyel@Typhiria 1133559
    #10 Qehoren@Brutwacht 1064953
    I cannot control player skills so I look at current top players in each calling on PT.

    If anything it just shows the skill ceiling between callings are not the same.

    You have extremely easy callings like rogue and primalist then you have other calling/spec that requires more player skill.

    Also if cleric scaling was broken then bubbles would be doing a lot ****tier as well isn't he?
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 09-12-2017 at 07:58 AM.

  14. #29
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    Rogue TOP 10

    #1 Railshot@Greybriar 1803868
    #2 Musclepig@Deepwood 1756756
    #3 Joyzan@Brutwacht 1666264
    #4 Tackleberry@Gelidra 1553754
    #5 Parkhyeyeon@Laethys 1459211
    #6 Stihl@Greybriar 1452890
    #7 Flinti@Gelidra 1374762
    #8 Overplayates@Greybriar 1369212
    #9 Shivonne@Hailol 1365236
    #10 Mokg@Seastone 1351944

    Cleric TOP 10

    #1 Bubbbles@Greybriar 1703918
    #2 Bielthan@Brutwacht 1313682
    #3 Aeli@Brutwacht 1286978
    #4 Tigert@Laethys 1235682
    #5 Therpeutic@Deepwood 1232836
    #6 Dragynkyn@Faeblight 1179248
    #7 Unusualbunny@Gelidra 1156883
    #8 Habad@Laethys 1139314
    #9 Fyel@Typhiria 1133559
    #10 Qehoren@Brutwacht 1064953

    100 / cleric(12447053) * rogue(15153897) = 121.74%

    So based on the TOP 10 - Rogues do 21.74% Damage more than Clerics.

    Primalist:

    #1 Zopop@Deepwood 2264068
    #2 Martyrdom@Greybriar 2262578
    #3 Zonna@Deepwood 2127722
    #4 Setsy@Greybriar 2020722
    #5 Kingswag@Deepwood 2020094
    #6 Skidro@Deepwood 1940306
    #7 Tharla@Brutwacht 1926018
    #8 Paddyyfail@Typhiria 1859335
    #9 Zenbonzakura@Deepwood 1712972
    #10 Ragniros@Deepwood 1703504

    100 / cleric(12447053) * primalist(19837319) = 159.37 -> Primaists do 59.37% more Damage than Clerics

    100 / rogue(15153897) * primalist(19837319) = 130.9 -> Primalists do 30.9% more Damage than Rogues

    Source:
    https://prancingturtle.com/Session/BossFight/145
    Last edited by Ora pro nobis; 09-12-2017 at 08:26 AM.
    be realistic let's try the impossible

  15. #30
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    I cannot control player skills so I look at current top players in each calling on PT.
    If anything it just shows the skill ceiling between callings are not the same.

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