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Thread: Its all about the crit.

  1. #1
    Telaran Dragynkyn's Avatar
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    Default Its all about the crit.

    Cleric is actually in a decent place now after the fervent changes. That being said, crit power is key. Cleric DPS, in both shaman, and inquisitor, has one of the highest crit percentages. If you don't want to upgrade fragments or spend charges (ie credits) grinding the new raid rifts, you will be affected more than other classes.

    Here is the other thing: many people who are complaining are using one button specs complete with macroed legendary inscribed fate which is a huge dps loss, or using bolt of judgement legendary. Do you want easy or do you want competitive? with cleric you cant have both.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker kityfisher's Avatar
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    Default Cleric DPS

    Possible would be it to have the tree of the talent for the specialization clerk dps inquisitor the most valid of moment to play as well there pvp as in raid(trek)
    TY

  3. #3
    Telaran Dragynkyn's Avatar
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    Im not sure what you are saying? Are you asking for the Inquisitor build? And there are actually two PVE builds now. One is better IMO for pvp, although it may need to be tweaked a bit.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragynkyn View Post
    Im not sure what you are saying? Are you asking for the Inquisitor build? And there are actually two PVE builds now. One is better IMO for pvp, although it may need to be tweaked a bit.
    Cleric is suppose to perform higher because they are near crit cap and crit power cap but they perform worse than other classes not even near their potential cap. Not only that but martial classes get stacked dps sources. Like the martial classes get dps from AP and weapon DPS. This is proving to be more favorable than cleric and to lesser extent mages who gets less dps modifiers as they acquire better gear. It is a flaw that is compounded by several flaws.

    Take a look of LFS. 30% boost to be barely competitive in our top dps for normal TD. That is how far behind it was from top dps or second place toward end of IROTP? Same happened in transition from each 20 man raid in NT but it was more like 10% difference back then. Cleric was barely competitive to not being competitive at all at similar gear levels. What is the kicker is the fragment system because it punishes cleric the most.

    Can you have fun playing with cleric? Yeah. But you are working from ground up, problems that the devs can't find solution to or overthink the solution and it becomes a bigger problem.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 08-06-2017 at 09:04 PM.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    devs can't find solution to or overthink the solution and it becomes a bigger problem.
    Back when they fixed our dps by making MB force crit. When I first saw that change I facepalmed because it was another nail in the coffin for cleric CP dependence.

    Now we have RS smiting force crit which is yet another doozie.

    The problem with cleric is that trion is making our abilities rely on the stats that never reliably scale expansion to expansion.

    For example everyone thought clerics were extremely OP at the start of NMT, because CP was super easy to obtain and clerics were hitting the cap before t1. That combined with our force crits made dps in the early expansion extremely high compared to others. But later that expansion we fell behind everyone else since after capping CP in t1 there was no room for improvement anymore.

    Now it's just the opposite, we can't ever get enough CP and it shows up as clerics struggling in low to mid to mid-high gear levels. The biggest problem being that the majority source of CP gain (when trying to hit cap) is from a RNG P2W source. The other is a RNG Grind (and sorta Pay to Play/Win).

    Even when clerics get CP and are geared to the teeth they aren't exactly top dps except for in a few rare cases where you got someone doing absolutely everything right. Most the time the differences between specs such as inquis being a total turret spec or sham having bad disconnects compared to other melee means they inevitably suffer and it takes stars aligning to even put them in a spot to contend for #1.

  6. #6
    Rift Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zehne View Post
    Back when they fixed our dps by making MB force crit. When I first saw that change I facepalmed because it was another nail in the coffin for cleric CP dependence.

    Now we have RS smiting force crit which is yet another doozie.

    The problem with cleric is that trion is making our abilities rely on the stats that never reliably scale expansion to expansion.

    For example everyone thought clerics were extremely OP at the start of NMT, because CP was super easy to obtain and clerics were hitting the cap before t1. That combined with our force crits made dps in the early expansion extremely high compared to others. But later that expansion we fell behind everyone else since after capping CP in t1 there was no room for improvement anymore.

    Now it's just the opposite, we can't ever get enough CP and it shows up as clerics struggling in low to mid to mid-high gear levels. The biggest problem being that the majority source of CP gain (when trying to hit cap) is from a RNG P2W source. The other is a RNG Grind (and sorta Pay to Play/Win).

    Even when clerics get CP and are geared to the teeth they aren't exactly top dps except for in a few rare cases where you got someone doing absolutely everything right. Most the time the differences between specs such as inquis being a total turret spec or sham having bad disconnects compared to other melee means they inevitably suffer and it takes stars aligning to even put them in a spot to contend for #1.
    It was a quick fix that wasn't really thought out and it wasn't hard to imagine its consequences. When i saw people hoping that paragon will get the same treatment i was really really hoping devs wont listen (not that it has helped paragon since SFP, it got killed PvE vise anyway ).

    The problem of fixed crits and big Crit Chance bonuses is, like it's beeing said here, it kills of spec scaling for the expansion. And now add the issues with SP (+% SP) tallent scaling, which might be connected with the itemization scaling as well (mainly weapons i guess) and you get to where we are. Oh and not to mention clerics Eternal Weapon's proc.

    I still find it hard to imagine how the hell SP scaling got lost during the years. I'm guessing the devs that were working on classes were randomly turning the knobs when tuning specs (changing SP coefficients in this case, compared to SP/AP and Weapon Damage ones) which threw the whole thing out of whac. I mean, in the base of the equation for damage, you can exchange weapon dps straight into AP and make it one, so how AP/WD tallents now give higher gains than just bare SP i just ...

    But i do imagine that at this stage it would take quite a lot of time and effort (see what i did there ;) ) to fix the scaling of cleric and mage, and an easier quick fixes will be way more likely sadly.
    Last edited by Jotunn; 08-07-2017 at 07:22 AM.

  7. #7
    Telaran Dragynkyn's Avatar
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    Im at 37.5 % cp in mid to low other gear, with only my jewelry top level. I use alts to farm crifts for matrix to sell for upgrades on fragments. Im doing 750k dummy parse. Shaman is no longer top spec, although its not too far behind, falling about 20-50k shy. Im guessing thats the sp and I have not tried it recently and Ive added more cp so that may have changed. There are ways not to pay to win, such as having cleric alts for essences. Its more work. I cant walk a new cleric (or mage) into a raid and top the charts like I can a primalist. But it is viable, and the cp can be found if you love the class enough to put the work in.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragynkyn View Post
    Im at 37.5 % cp in mid to low other gear, with only my jewelry top level.
    37.5% CP is very high, and your armor level has nothing to do with it (since armor has 0 impact on CP).

    You can claim that it's 'easy' all you want, but as i've pointed out elsewhere if the cap for CP is ~~9k, you can only get ~~3.9k from essences/seal(Grind with IRC P2W).

    Which means you still have ~~4k CP from fragments which are 100% RNG/P2W.

    So don't go toting 'i've done it, everyone can'. Not everyone can control whether or not they get 2 CP death fragments and/or fire fragments.

    I for one have still never gotten any death CP fragment that wasn't all tank stats or a martial, let alone two of them.

    And seeing how having 1 CP death fragment is about 500cp more than CP as a secondary stat, 2 means that's a whole 1000+ CP that is potentially missing. As far as I know there are no reliable sources of higher tier death frags other than bought boxes which is one reason why they aren't too common.

    But sure, for those who got lucky enough to get one or two, you have a significant leg up on getting CP over others.

    EDIT: And the only thing really separating me from ~~cap CP is not having t1 CP death frags.
    Last edited by Zehne; 08-08-2017 at 09:11 PM.

  9. #9
    Rift Master Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragynkyn View Post
    Im at 37.5 % cp in mid to low other gear, with only my jewelry top level. I use alts to farm crifts for matrix to sell for upgrades on fragments. Im doing 750k dummy parse. Shaman is no longer top spec, although its not too far behind, falling about 20-50k shy. Im guessing thats the sp and I have not tried it recently and Ive added more cp so that may have changed. There are ways not to pay to win, such as having cleric alts for essences. Its more work. I cant walk a new cleric (or mage) into a raid and top the charts like I can a primalist. But it is viable, and the cp can be found if you love the class enough to put the work in.
    Mid to low gear with 37.5% cp. Ye not quite.
    Fwob - Zaviel

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