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Thread: elemental weapon Buff

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default elemental weapon Buff

    It seems that the elemental weapon buff only work well with Shamen and tank.

    For example:

    if I play with inquisitor – I do debuffs and dots and it goes off before I reach the cannels. So this weaponbuff has no benefit.

    if i play warden - it goes off after casting single- and grouphots.

    if i play runeshaper it goes off after casting buff, debuffs and seals.

    and so on.

    It seems a litte bit over nerfed right from the start. What are yours experiences with the buff ?

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    Last edited by Sing; 06-17-2017 at 02:29 AM.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Randomly dropping while shard hopping to farm. remove/wield to rebuild stacks.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    I am personally also disappointed with the effect.

    I have similar experiences. It seems to work well for shaman, and poorly for almost everything else. Something else you missed out on, it does not affect damage over time or heal over time effects, so it is (almost) completely useless for warden and defiler.

    I don't really understand the mechanic behind the effect. Once you go below 75% mana, you're just not going to go back up above 75% mana, with the exception of mana potions (once every 3 minutes) or breaks in a fight. There are mana regain effect in almost all specs, but the dps/hps lost using these, will rarely be worth it. Again the one exception to this seems to be shaman.

    It's not like say warriors, or rogues whom have rapid resource regeneration, mana gets used, and it's gone, period.

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    Default Eternal weapon buff and combat log

    While I'm not overly happy with the weapon not interacting with a couple of our main specs, they have the same restriction for mage; and although I hate to say it...I think it would make warden a bit op.
    One thing I would really like them to do is stop the buff flashing/refreshing every second. Visually it's annoying, and in the combat log it rapidly adds lines and lines of the same thing. This means that if you're trying to see anything in there, you have to be quick or it is lost in a sea of green useless text.

  5. #5
    Rift Master Refuge's Avatar
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    Has anyone properly tested the affects of this buff? They've left it very ambiguous on purpose. I'm still currently on the 500+ stage. How much of an affect does 10000 have? What does it even mean?

    I run inquisitor at the moment and get about 600k on a sustained fight, which i think is fairly reasonable. Im intrigued what difference 500 to 10000 makes?

    If it is such a big difference, then i guess I have no choice but to use mana potions within my opener unless I spec to shaman. The opener for me too takes me to about 72-3%, but only right at the end of the opener, so maybe a mana potion isn't worthwhile.

    Surely if 10,000 makes that much of a difference, 1 tic of Righteous Deliberation may be a necessity? (if mana potions aren't an option). Particularly if that could be one way of rebuffing Mental Resilience.



    edit: Nevermind, after further testing I realise how quickly I drop below 75% even with a standard rotation, so clearly there's no point trying to get above it during standard damage.

    Therefore it seems very much a design that is supposed to benefit only a few specific specs, or those who want to spend a load of plat on mana potions to constantly have their cd's benefiting from the buff.

    Either way, this seems like an incredibly silly design. Why should an eternal weapon that takes you so long to get, force you into a situation where you have to spend plat or spec to shaman??!
    Last edited by Refuge; 06-27-2017 at 11:02 PM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  6. #6
    Ascendant forbiddenlake's Avatar
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    The difference between 500 and 10000 is about 9,500.

    It's a flat bonus, not a percentage or anything.

    Disclaimer: I didn't actually test

  7. #7
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    It's a flat bonus to the damage/healing of abilities (but does not apply to dots/hots).

    This is a base damage bonus, so the way it interacts with certain abilities makes a huge difference.

    For example, low base damage abilities that get huge % modifiers (such as Jolt) will gain 10k damage to it's base. Then after going through about +700% worth of buffs/debuffs that 10k bonus turns into 80k damage.

    You can pretty much go down the list of abilities in a spec and see how much of a difference the buff would make on them (damage w/ buff divided by damage w/0 buff) to see the % damage gain if the buff was active every time you use an ability.

    Then you get to play the game of "is regening mana worth the damage gain" game. The answer is almost always no. So sit back and down those mana tonics because that's the only effective way to gain eternal weapon benefit w/o losing dps.

    Stellar Mana tonic's work just fine (1700/3 for 12 seconds) for pretty much anything. But if you want the new ones you'll spend alot more money (2500/3 for 12 seconds).

  8. #8
    Rift Master Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zehne View Post
    It's a flat bonus to the damage/healing of abilities (but does not apply to dots/hots).

    This is a base damage bonus, so the way it interacts with certain abilities makes a huge difference.

    For example, low base damage abilities that get huge % modifiers (such as Jolt) will gain 10k damage to it's base. Then after going through about +700% worth of buffs/debuffs that 10k bonus turns into 80k damage.

    You can pretty much go down the list of abilities in a spec and see how much of a difference the buff would make on them (damage w/ buff divided by damage w/0 buff) to see the % damage gain if the buff was active every time you use an ability.

    Then you get to play the game of "is regening mana worth the damage gain" game. The answer is almost always no. So sit back and down those mana tonics because that's the only effective way to gain eternal weapon benefit w/o losing dps.

    Stellar Mana tonic's work just fine (1700/3 for 12 seconds) for pretty much anything. But if you want the new ones you'll spend alot more money (2500/3 for 12 seconds).

    Thanks for the info. I'm assuming then you should only pop these pots in preparation for your 2 min burst? As once you're at 100% mana it takes a matter of seconds before you're back below 75% mana.

    How many seconds does the MoT pots take for you to get from 75% mana to 100% during a full rotation? As it would be important to consider how much extra time you get above 75% mana after the burst. I didn't think of using the MoT rather than the instant mana pots. I was also considering buying low lvl instant mana pots, as I assumed these would at least give 25% mana.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  9. #9
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    Thanks for the info. I'm assuming then you should only pop these pots in preparation for your 2 min burst? As once you're at 100% mana it takes a matter of seconds before you're back below 75% mana.

    How many seconds does the MoT pots take for you to get from 75% mana to 100% during a full rotation? As it would be important to consider how much extra time you get above 75% mana after the burst. I didn't think of using the MoT rather than the instant mana pots. I was also considering buying low lvl instant mana pots, as I assumed these would at least give 25% mana.
    1700/3 = 10% mana every 3 seconds.

    The thing is though that you always have your ~~1805 or ~~1985 with mastery mp10
    • 180.5/198.5 mana per 1 second
    • 270.75/297.75 mana per 1.5 seconds
    So when you're looking at time above 75% it's simply a matter of your net mana loss/gain per gcd.


    So assuming at the end of 12 seconds from the mana pot you're still at 100%, then 75% is 12750 mana or 4250 below max.


    Can't really say how many abilities you'll stay above 75%, because it all depends on the abilities you use, how fast you use them and the spec you're in. But inquis for example relies on Inscribed Fate and BoL for debuffs and those are relatively mana intensive abilities.


    Sham on the other hand seems to have relatively mild mana costs per ability as well as having a huge mana cost reduction passive. Although with the way mana costs are calculated with the eternal weapon it's diminished.


    It seems to be Base*(1.0 + 1.0(for eternal weapon buff) - modifier for mana efficiency).
    For example warden's base 5 talents would make a spec be Base*(1.0 + 1.0 -0.1) = 1.9x mana cost per ability. This is opposed to how you think it'd work which is Base*2.0*0.9 = 1.8x mana efficiency.


    Which is sorta confusing to me since most things in the game are multiplicative in different categories instead of additive. For example buffs are all additive with other buffs while buffs are multiplicative with talents. I guess trion just really wanted us to never get the buff (since out of the ways it could interact with the few mana efficiency talents/buffs in game we have it works out worst case).

    the tl;dr is that it depends on the mana tonic you use, what mana % you were at when you use it, what abilities you're using, etc. From my experience though if you're only marginally below 75% when you use the tonic you'll stay above 75% the whole duration of the tonic and the last tick should leave you with 100% mana.

    Since only a handful of abilities actually use >1700 mana (and realistically >2000 mana),
    Last edited by Zehne; 06-28-2017 at 12:39 AM.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    For me the buff during 20 seconds at the start of the fight and with no mana potion, it's always under 75%. I think they have to change this because other weapon are better.

  11. #11
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    There is an underlining problem to the eternal weapon. This has to do with the current meta of healing at the moment. The eternal weapon bonus is above all the worse of all classes as a result since EHPS barely gets the eternals bonus healing contribution. It is mostly overhealing or wasted healing that gets the bonus. They should, in my opinion, make the eternals grant the same buffs across all callings but make it a self buff. It will also increase the value of the eternal weapons across all classe which can technically increase replayability. The functionality of it is not the only problem in my opinion.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 07-01-2017 at 09:21 PM.

  12. #12
    Rift Master Refuge's Avatar
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    So in general does the eternal weapon do much for inquisitor dps? Let's say I'm on dungeon stage now, would I see a noticable difference when it becomes blue stage? (I always forget the dam name for it). Considering I won't benefit from the equip much, I guess the stat change will make some difference.

    Could I confidently say a 100k increase? Or not even that?
    Fwob - Zaviel

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    I'd say 100k increase would be extremely optimistic. Just did a brief test. Two short parses of 2 minutes each, in one I start at full mana, the other at 50% mana. Not the best test, but it's not possible to swap out the eternal for another equally strong item without the effect, so this will have to do.

    The difference was 30k dps, or roughly 5%

  14. #14
    Rift Master Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tevash View Post
    I'd say 100k increase would be extremely optimistic. Just did a brief test. Two short parses of 2 minutes each, in one I start at full mana, the other at 50% mana. Not the best test, but it's not possible to swap out the eternal for another equally strong item without the effect, so this will have to do.

    The difference was 30k dps, or roughly 5%
    I see thanks for the test. I was also refereeing to the weapon as a whole compared to say the wicket version. I guess the extra stats won't make a huge difference here either

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