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Thread: Bis Loot lists /stat weights

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Bis Loot lists /stat weights

    Is there any spreadsheets for BiS loot lists or stat weights for clerics for 4.1?

    I know other classes have sheets such as mage : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=851657820

    but I was wondering if there was one for clerics that anyone had made.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetheax View Post
    Is there any spreadsheets for BiS loot lists or stat weights for clerics for 4.1?

    I know other classes have sheets such as mage : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=851657820

    but I was wondering if there was one for clerics that anyone had made.
    stat weights depend on current levels of gear, spec, rotation, etc.
    For basically every spec I've tested or worked with and done any amount of calculations for the weights come out pretty skewed.

    Basically the weights look like this:
    CP>>Wis/SP>>Int>>SC
    (when looking at gear)

    And yes the double > is implied.

    CP is heavily weighted in pretty much every spec to the point that your only goal is to get as much CP as you can per slot. (Which is Essences and Fragments). Also that argument pretty much extends into what makes each Planar Fragment the best for Clerics. The answer: whatever tier gets the most CP. So on fragments where CP is T5 or T6, you get more CP (basically) by having it as a secondary stat vs a primary stat.

    You can ask if 100CP is worth 200 SP, but at that point you're just splitting hairs. Most the time gear choices are between ~~360CP or 212SP. And at that point the choice is clear.

    And Wis/SP come out nearly the same weight wise. But when it comes to gear choices most the time there is never a Wis vs SP choice. And when there is the differences are going to be so minute (and possible change from spec to spec) that it's not really worth the effort to assess the difference (which would end up being .1% magnitude of difference anyways).

    People seeking the best stats don't have to choose when it comes to planar fragments, you get 5 stats on fragments, which means the best gear is the one with CP/Wis/SP/Int/SC all rolled into one. For fragments if you care about which is best(relatively) I already made a fragment BiS Guide.
    Last edited by Zehne; 05-24-2017 at 09:19 AM.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zehne View Post
    stat weights depend on current levels of gear, spec, rotation, etc.
    For basically every spec I've tested or worked with and done any amount of calculations for the weights come out pretty skewed.

    Basically the weights look like this:
    CP>>Wis/SP>>Int>>SC
    (when looking at gear)

    And yes the double > is implied.

    CP is heavily weighted in pretty much every spec to the point that your only goal is to get as much CP as you can per slot. (Which is Essences and Fragments). Also that argument pretty much extends into what makes each Planar Fragment the best for Clerics. The answer: whatever tier gets the most CP. So on fragments where CP is T5 or T6, you get more CP (basically) by having it as a secondary stat vs a primary stat.

    You can ask if 100CP is worth 200 SP, but at that point you're just splitting hairs. Most the time gear choices are between ~~360CP or 212SP. And at that point the choice is clear.

    And Wis/SP come out nearly the same weight wise. But when it comes to gear choices most the time there is never a Wis vs SP choice. And when there is the differences are going to be so minute (and possible change from spec to spec) that it's not really worth the effort to assess the difference (which would end up being .1% magnitude of difference anyways).

    People seeking the best stats don't have to choose when it comes to planar fragments, you get 5 stats on fragments, which means the best gear is the one with CP/Wis/SP/Int/SC all rolled into one. For fragments if you care about which is best(relatively) I already made a fragment BiS Guide.
    Yeah I know the general stat weights (that CP > SP/Wis> SC). I was wondering if there was a spreadsheet that you can enter gear into and get personalized stat weights, or if an updated one doesn't exist. I've been used to being able to find an updated version that someone was working on, but I wasn't sure if there were still people working on that kind of thing.
    Last edited by Vetheax; 05-25-2017 at 10:14 AM.

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetheax View Post
    Yeah I know the general stat weights (that CP > SP/Wis> SC). I was wondering if there was a spreadsheet that you can enter gear into and get personalized stat weights, or if an updated one doesn't exist. I've been used to being able to find an updated version that someone was working on, but I wasn't sure if there were still people working on that kind of thing.
    There are, but I hear the people who make them aren't the sharing kind.
    My personal weights without raid buffs are:
    Shaman
    SP-1
    CP-1.759
    SC-.536
    Wis-1.076
    Int-.5003

    Inquisitor
    SP-1
    CP-1.363
    SC-.441
    Wis-.9705
    Int-.4705

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jkay View Post
    My personal weights without raid buffs are:
    Shaman
    SP-1
    CP-1.759
    SC-.536
    Wis-1.076
    Int-.5003

    Inquisitor
    SP-1
    CP-1.363
    SC-.441
    Wis-.9705
    Int-.4705
    I have a question. If Wisdom gives you 0.75% Spellpower and 0.5% Spellcrit - why isnt Wisdom on Shamen = 1.018

    Wisdom = 0.75%x1 + 0.5%x0.536 = 1.018

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sing View Post
    I have a question. If Wisdom gives you 0.75% Spellpower and 0.5% Spellcrit - why isnt Wisdom on Shamen = 1.018

    Wisdom = 0.75%x1 + 0.5%x0.536 = 1.018
    Those weights are with the druid variant.

  7. #7
    Rift Master Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zehne View Post
    CP is heavily weighted in pretty much every spec to the point that your only goal is to get as much CP as you can per slot. (Which is Essences and Fragments). Also that argument pretty much extends into what makes each Planar Fragment the best for Clerics. The answer: whatever tier gets the most CP. So on fragments where CP is T5 or T6, you get more CP (basically) by having it as a secondary stat vs a primary stat.
    Could you explain what you meant here, I couldn't make much sense of it :S. Are you basically saying when CP is within t5 or t6 of a fragment then you should attempt to get a t1-t3 with CP as a secondary stat? From what I've seen secondary stats usually only go up to about 50 for CP, so i don't know what you mean by more?

    Thanks,
    Fwob.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    Could you explain what you meant here, I couldn't make much sense of it :S. Are you basically saying when CP is within t5 or t6 of a fragment then you should attempt to get a t1-t3 with CP as a secondary stat? From what I've seen secondary stats usually only go up to about 50 for CP, so i don't know what you mean by more?

    Thanks,
    Fwob.
    On a relic fragment, it's technically possible to get something like 464cp as a secondary.
    The highest I have is 365, though.

    Put simply:
    A life fragment with cp as a primary stat can only get 188cp at level 15
    An earth fragment with cp as a primary stat can only get 282cp at level 15
    If you can get a higher stat value from taking cp as a secondary, why wouldn't you?

    More complicated choices:
    An air fragment can either have 421cp or 382wis at 15.
    The "best" fragment would be 382wis with 464cp as a secondary, but the likelihood of getting that combination is incredibly small. For this reason, guaranteed high crit power with decent secondaries is the more practical choice.

    Counterintuitive water fragments:
    Even though water gets 477cp as a main stat, which is higher than the maximum secondary stat value, 972 spell crit is actually BiS.
    I'll spare you the math, but basically sc+cp > cp+wis > sp+cp.
    Again, for practicality, TD makes getting cp+wis fragments incredibly easy, so it's the safer choice overall.

    As for fire and death, cp is pretty obvious.
    Last edited by Jkay; 05-30-2017 at 09:01 AM.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jkay View Post
    On a relic fragment, it's technically possible to get something like 464cp as a secondary.
    The highest I have is 365, though.
    But t5 and t6 with CP as primary only get ~~282 or 188.

    So the chances of getting 282 or around that much CP from having CP as a secondary stat are fairly high. And the chances of having less CP than 188 from having CP as a secondary stat are fairly low.

    Which is why when Wis is T2 or T1 on said elemental planar fragments, the massive difference between Wis as a primary and secondary stat dictates which one is better (since CP as a primary/secondary stat are on avg equal).

    I put this info in the fragment guide, it's a simplified guide that is made to take somewhat worst case RNG (on allocation of secondary stat rolls) into account though, so the CP and Wis/Int/SC/SP differences are taken into account for primary vs secondary.

    And the KISS version is: Go for the most CP on fragments. Which means CP as a primary except for Earth/Life for cleric. For earth/life go for Wis as a primary and ensure CP is a secondary (preferably the first visible stat, preferably on an epic/relic fragment)

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zehne View Post
    But t5 and t6 with CP as primary only get ~~282 or 188.
    Two tl;dr posts in a row. We're gonna scare this guy off.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jkay View Post
    stat value, 972 spell crit is actually BiS.
    The only thing I can say to this is that YES/NO.

    I'm expecting clerics to hit the SC softcap in a relatively short amount of time in this expansion. That said, SC's value will tank and you'll probably 'regret' not having higher SP/CP instead.

    Regret is relative though, cause one or two fragments being slightly sub-optimal won't make a huge difference overall.

    EDIT:
    My reasoning is that fragments are relatively 'permanent' gear. This means that once you hit the SC softcap you'd have to replace gear pieces that have alot invested into them (but if you're saving good fragments/alternate fragments on alts then it really only boils down to plat).
    Last edited by Zehne; 05-30-2017 at 12:22 PM.

  12. #12
    Rift Master Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jkay View Post
    Two tl;dr posts in a row. We're gonna scare this guy off.
    Don't worry you didn't scare me off.. yet!

    The responses were much appreciated. I would say I'm folllowing 95% of what you're saying (I am a maths teacher after all I should be able to get this lol..)

    I didn't realise CP as a secondary could get so high, I'm slightly embarrassed to say I've levelled a couple of fragments to 15 (tier 1) where CP as a secondary is just under 200, but then again, there's just too much RNG in this to hold out.

    You mentioned this "preferably the first visible stat, preferably on an epic/relic fragment". I wasn't aware that the position of the stat had any relevance, just there was a chance one of the stats would get a boost? In fact, I've forgotten in general how the secondary stats are boosted per 3 lvls. I just know at 15 they all get a big boost.
    Last edited by Refuge; 05-31-2017 at 06:56 AM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    You mentioned this "preferably the first visible stat, preferably on an epic/relic fragment".
    You can find Archy's planar fragment guide in the main guides section, and he does a great job of explaining, but I'll summarize here.

    Every three levels, you either reveal a new stat or boost an existing one. Once you start revealing stats you aren't getting anymore boosts. That said, only the secondary stats initially visible have a chance of being boosted.

    The boost itself is a multiplier of the base stat value.
    So if your relic fragment started with 40cp, the first boost would raise it to 80, then 120, up to a maximum of 200.
    Keep in mind that all your visible secondary stats are equally likely to be boosted, so you're just as likely to end up with 5 boosts to some worthless stat like dodge.

    Finally, at level 15, a flat bonus is applied to all secondary stats. In the case of crit power, that's 139cp.
    The way I get 464 as the maximum secondary is by using 65 as the maximum base value. If that gets boosted four times, that's 325cp. Then adding the flat 139cp bonus at 15, you get 464.

  14. #14
    Rift Master Refuge's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. I guess I already knew most of that. Just not sure why he said preferably the first secondary stat in the list. I assume none of the stats have been boosted yet before lvling, so aren't they all flat stats with any of them having a chance at being boosted?
    Last edited by Refuge; 05-31-2017 at 02:34 PM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  15. #15
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    You have talents that modify SP and Wisdom directly. And getting CP as a secondary on the best ones with like 60+ is really good if you ever come across such rare ones. Unfortunately the only classes that lucked out on itemization are the martial classes who have relatively low T4 fragments(which are like a dime a dozen) that are best in slot for that class. You will rarely come across a tier 1 of SP or Wis. Let alone T1 CP. If you played a rogue or primalist you technically have an easier time getting bis for that reason alone since they get dex and ap fragment rolls on T4 fragments. .. and also they are balanced higher in dps than clerics. Pretty daunting once you figure it all out...

    http://imgur.com/H9XMEI6
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 06-03-2017 at 02:39 AM.

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