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Thread: Mage VS Cleric

  1. #1
    Plane Touched wowerfreaktobi's Avatar
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    Default Mage VS Cleric

    Hey guys, I feel like every time I come back I feel the need to make a thread because literally everything has changed.

    I want to main heal with a support off-spec, ranged DPS if needed. How are Clerics doing VS mages in this aspect? Specifically in the endgame, SPEs/Raiding.

    If there is another thread that is up to date with this patch, feel free to direct me to it! :3
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    Both can do both.

    Cleric's support soul is a paid soul. One of Mages healing souls is paid soul.

    These are harsh times it seems, there are wild swings back and forth flying around for buffs/nerfs.

    All in all though, every class can do everything (or will eventually(thinking about primalist aoe heals specifically)).

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    Chloro sitting really high in the ranks of healers, archon is second to none in terms of support bringing damage to the raid. As far as range dps goes I think pyro is also ahead of cleric range dps souls on sustained fights but Inq wins out on short burst
    Last edited by makerofwidows; 04-30-2017 at 05:06 PM.

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    The reason why the cleric class is over represented in Rift has greatly to do with the options they have in the beginning of the game which swindle players to choose the poor class and it will never change until they fix that splash screen.

    If I am a newbie and I see a class can tank heal and dps and its offering the most options for me I am going to pick it up(its common sense).. This is amplified by hope and trust in balancing classes around bring the player not the class meta. For clerics they totally abandoned this ideology.. Just look at their overall position in Rift atm. In reality the class devs have never balanced classes to the point where one class was not shafted. Clerics just seem to represent the worse they have done to this point in time.

    If the policy/rumor is true that cleric is being completely ignored or poorly designed as a result of being over represented in Rift then this will continue for the remainder of the expansion or indefinitely. More newbies with common sense are going to reliably put their faith in the class devs before getting to know how they operate and pick cleric which offers the most roles on that one splash screen although the other classes can play them all and mostly all are eons better in design in comparison. Cleric with eternal weapons have mana issues in some souls that make it such a hassle to play that it just doesn't get played.

    I would stick with rogue or primalist.. They are the easiest to get best in slot fragments needing the least amount of tier 1 fragments and investment and then go for mage. Cleric should not be an option at all for SFP. There is a lot of wrong doing to the cleric class directly and indirectly that you will never see. Like the 1 hand and shield requirement, the eternal weapon proc making souls unplayable, and the planar fragments being the most expensive investment of all the classes. You play a class that is poorly designed and implemented in Rift and you pay the most to play it. In the end actually the common sense thing to do is play something else. And as a developer you may actually consider fixing the character creation screen to not biasly put cleric as a favorable choice for newbies who know no better or relies on common sense to pick a class. This way cleric can finally be balanced correctly and by the bring the player and not the class meta which they have been denied in 4.1 and possibly for the rest of the expansion.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 05-01-2017 at 03:50 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    The reason why the cleric class is over represented in Rift has greatly to do with the options they have in the beginning of the game which swindle players to choose the poor class and it will never change until they fix that splash screen.

    If the policy/rumor is true that cleric is being completely ignored or poorly designed as a result of being over represented in Rift then this will continue for the remainder of the expansion or indefinitely.
    And this is how urban myths continue. Don't have time to look up the reference, BUT a few years ago during the anniversary event Trion posted the numbers of characters for each class. Rogues were the most, followed by Warriors, then Mages, only then Clerics - and Primalist had just been released so they came in last. The current plight of Clerics is
    A. nothing new for the class and
    B. has nothing to do with the number of cleric toons created.

    Trion has stated that Clerics are better balanced than the other classes. And I have to wonder if Keyen's signature provides any insight to that balance.
    Last edited by Uviktig; 05-01-2017 at 04:00 AM.
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    Plane Touched wowerfreaktobi's Avatar
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    Oh, some excellent responses. Thank you all for replying.

    It sounds like what I have heard is true, clerics are just behind. I started playing back in beta and stopped right around Storm Legion. I come back every so often to check in, get caught up, and do some raiding. I figured with the introduction if LFR this is made easier for me! I love the kind of support Oracle brings, and Inquisitor has always been a fun soul to play. I used to play Purifier, but I hear FK is pretty good ST healing now. (I don't have FK, or Runeshaper)

    I don't really enjoy rogues or primalists tbh. For totally selfish reasons, the fantasy of the class. I can't get into Warrior either.

    I don't know how to quote from other posts, but you said something about the Eternal Weapon making the class unplayable? Is it the Mana management? I love Mana management and I thought it was a pretty neat effect haha
    Hold fast and we will watch the flames burn auburn on the mountain side

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    Plane Touched wowerfreaktobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makerofwidows View Post
    Chloro sitting really high in the ranks of healers, archon is second to none in terms of support bringing damage to the raid. As far as range dps goes I think pyro is also ahead of cleric range dps souls on sustained fights but Inq wins out on short burst
    I figured out how to do it this hahaha

    Yeah, these are the results I'm overall seeing out there. Makes me sad that Cleric is so behind on most things.
    Hold fast and we will watch the flames burn auburn on the mountain side

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uviktig View Post
    And this is how urban myths continue. Don't have time to look up the reference, BUT a few years ago during the anniversary event Trion posted the numbers of characters for each class. Rogues were the most, followed by Warriors, then Mages, only then Clerics - and Primalist had just been released so they came in last. The current plight of Clerics is
    A. nothing new for the class and
    B. has nothing to do with the number of cleric toons created.

    Trion has stated that Clerics are better balanced than the other classes. And I have to wonder if Keyen's signature provides any insight to that balance.
    "In fact, I would go so far to say that this is not something we would entertain doing to any other souls that might get revamps in the future. A Mage soul has the strongest possibility of becoming the next exception because they are under represented 2 to 1 compared to Cleric and Warrior but there are no plans to do that currently or in the future."
    Last edited by Aedynn; 05-01-2017 at 07:22 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uviktig View Post
    And this is how urban myths continue. Don't have time to look up the reference, BUT a few years ago during the anniversary event Trion posted the numbers of characters for each class. Rogues were the most, followed by Warriors, then Mages, only then Clerics - and Primalist had just been released so they came in last. The current plight of Clerics is
    A. nothing new for the class and
    B. has nothing to do with the number of cleric toons created.

    Trion has stated that Clerics are better balanced than the other classes. And I have to wonder if Keyen's signature provides any insight to that balance.
    Are you for real? That was like 3 years ago. Vladd just posted last year that cleric was 2 to 1 vs mages. Go look it up in the druid remake thread post by dev orren. This is no myth. You just have a 3 year old mental block that you may be stuck in..

    Cleric doesn't get new things? They have the most recently new mechanics of any class. They had a turret spec like no other with Runeshaper release, Druid was a mess to play with self inflicting damage to keep active, and defiler has greeds call which hits yourself for 100K+ randomly in PvP and a class that self inflicts damage to do damage which doesn't even belong in Rift AT ALL.

    If clerics are the best balanced class in Rift then why are Devs balancing them to other classes BY BUFFING CLERIC IN THE PTS? Should not everyone be NERFED to cleric level of nonviability, nonplayability and uselessness? Why are clerics getting 12 button specs taht are barely competitive while other classes spam 1 button and top dps? LMAO..

    I will just put this here so you can understand how limited you may be or out of date you are.

    Mage came into NT with 1 button spec noone could touch with a hybrid SC(soulstorm) and left the expansion with 1 button spec not many could touch called ele/pyro, the best pvp ST healer, and the best support. And for 20 man raids chloro was the best for raid buffs over warden so they are actually the most represented class in raids from my guild and easier to play. Why the heck would you try to make cleric sound like a good choice. We lost so much support because 3 months ago people were saying cleric will suck in 4.1 and after 4.1 was DELAYED 1 MONTH they still ended up in terrible position in 4.1. This is exactly what happened after giving everyone that could change the class fair warning. This is why Keyens buffed cleric in PTS instead of nerfed everyone else to be balanced around cleric.

    Cleric the most balanced class in the game.. the fact people actually believe that is crazy.And to the OP roll a mage but don't touch cleric. I even remember rogues coming into cleric forums to balance the class and they ended up 10%-15% under everyone else when they released MoM..
    Last edited by Aedynn; 05-01-2017 at 04:26 PM.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    Cleric Eternal Weapon:
    Need to maintain >75% mana to get bonus to damage
    Druid's mana regen on 10 second c/d and it's a mana intensive spec
    100% non-viable with weapon, even if druid was viable w/o it
    Defiler has no mana regen, guess you can toss all 61 defiler specs out the window.
    Even if it did have a mana regen, the eternal weapon doesn't effect dots, which are the majority of defiler dps.
    These are blatant oversights. I mean come on, defiler has NO MANA REGEN?!?

    Nevermind that the weapon's interaction with abilities totally skews everything, some abilities get huge bonuses because of their mechanics, others (like dots) get 0 benefit.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zehne View Post
    Cleric Eternal Weapon:
    Need to maintain >75% mana to get bonus to damage
    Druid's mana regen on 10 second c/d and it's a mana intensive spec
    100% non-viable with weapon, even if druid was viable w/o it
    Defiler has no mana regen, guess you can toss all 61 defiler specs out the window.
    Even if it did have a mana regen, the eternal weapon doesn't effect dots, which are the majority of defiler dps.
    These are blatant oversights. I mean come on, defiler has NO MANA REGEN?!?

    Nevermind that the weapon's interaction with abilities totally skews everything, some abilities get huge bonuses because of their mechanics, others (like dots) get 0 benefit.
    100% right! This is a big problem. I am just going to say it. This feels massively intentional since the itemization dev supposedly has nothing to do with the class dev. This class is being attacked with improper changes from multiple devs which is a big eye opener. This feels just terrible. I was feeling this way after they screwed over cleric shaman with the PvP nerfs which is another totally different dev(which I think have not been unnerfed like Paragon was recently either in PvP!!!!) The shaman plays exceptionally poor in comparison to paragon due to class mechanics and design. No way of the mountain, cleansable deep freeze, and limited with disconnects and cc are a few things that make shaman worse Not to mention they still don't get an ogcd snare and is the only soul for cleric to provide twisted soul debuffs making it more of support to other classes dps and burst specs. So lame.. the whole class .. is just poorly designed and if you look at how many DIFFERENT DEVS ARE DOING THIS the class isn't worth playing. It is an outright attack on a specific player base and the only reason anyone can fanthom is that one post by Vladd making cleric seem over used or represented. No other reason. There is also the destruction of legendaries viability. If one is broken they nerf it to the point of uselessness instead of revamp it. This has happened to cleric multiple times where their legendaries become useless rather than reworked into something less OP but useful.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 05-01-2017 at 08:07 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    And to the OP roll a mage but don't touch cleric. I even remember rogues coming into cleric forums to balance the class and they ended up 10%-15% under everyone else when they released MoM..
    This I can agree with. as for the rest of your condescending diatribe , like Dude stuff it. I mained a Cleric for 6 years, cleared all content up to February 15, 2017 - most while it was current. Please do check that signature I referenced and you'll realize that I don't think Clerics are at all balanced with the other classes and a possible reason for that imbalance. Clerics have suffered through years of fourth rate DPS, second rate tanking until late Infernal Dawn, OP shielding which "prohibited" other healing considerations, Defiler in all it's manifestations, Droolid... need I go on?

    But I must say a personal thank you. Your rant has resulted in me FINALLY deleting the forum shortcut from my browser. Best wishes to all involved with Rift. I have many fond memories.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uviktig View Post
    This I can agree with. as for the rest of your condescending diatribe , like Dude stuff it. I mained a Cleric for 6 years, cleared all content up to February 15, 2017 - most while it was current. Please do check that signature I referenced and you'll realize that I don't think Clerics are at all balanced with the other classes and a possible reason for that imbalance. Clerics have suffered through years of fourth rate DPS, second rate tanking until late Infernal Dawn, OP shielding which "prohibited" other healing considerations, Defiler in all it's manifestations, Droolid... need I go on?

    But I must say a personal thank you. Your rant has resulted in me FINALLY deleting the forum shortcut from my browser. Best wishes to all involved with Rift. I have many fond memories.
    You know raiding doesn't really make you good at cleric. You can just play one role for all of an expansion and remain clueless about everything else. I know many cleric tanks who raid and know absolutely nothing other than how to tank for instance and thats all they did for last 3-4 years. Even really well known clerics who stream on Twitch can't even play inquisitor correctly and still play a 1 button shaman. Not that I am saying you are bad and I do remember that post by trionbrasse. That was a long while ago though. Vladd had the most updated numbers I assumed.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 05-01-2017 at 08:51 AM.

  14. #14
    Rift Master Dizbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zehne View Post
    Cleric Eternal Weapon:
    Need to maintain >75% mana to get bonus to damage
    Druid's mana regen on 10 second c/d and it's a mana intensive spec
    100% non-viable with weapon, even if druid was viable w/o it
    Defiler has no mana regen, guess you can toss all 61 defiler specs out the window.
    Even if it did have a mana regen, the eternal weapon doesn't effect dots, which are the majority of defiler dps.
    These are blatant oversights. I mean come on, defiler has NO MANA REGEN?!?

    Nevermind that the weapon's interaction with abilities totally skews everything, some abilities get huge bonuses because of their mechanics, others (like dots) get 0 benefit.
    ----
    Sharing my favorite mana regen skill [Shaman]
    Makes for a more fun rotation while perma-snared.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Mage VS Cleric-ageless-ice.jpg  
    Last edited by Dizbo; 05-01-2017 at 11:31 AM.

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    This thread delivered, thanks for the laugh.

    OP of the two you listed go with mage. Trion has been unsuccessful developing\redeveloping a cleric soul since the inquisitor changes at the start of 3.0. 3.0 was a cluster **** of stopgap and poor design choices, and when I saw the proposed 4.0 designs I threw in the towel. Not much has changed from what I read.
    Koz

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