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Thread: Cleric in 4.1, your thoughts?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Cleric in 4.1, your thoughts?

    With 4.1 on the imminent horizon, I thought I'd ask a similar question for each class to centralize discussion.

    For Cleric:

    Where do we go from here with some of the better soul specs being heavily modified?

    What soul spec is the new goto (and next to be beat with the nerfbat)?

    Which soul specs are most likely dead?

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Fears so far is they're making runeshaper the go to spec. Let's just hope the delayed 4.1 will see further changes.
    Fwob - Zaviel

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    I would assume they are going to remain as bad as they have been for the last couple of years outside the few weeks prior to SFP. Just took a look at the procs on the new gear for cleric and it was quite apparent that they are the worse of all the classes. They didn't even attempt to fix any of their weaknesses. In some cases they made other classes with really strong mechanics that should be dialed back even stronger.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 03-21-2017 at 11:44 AM.

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    Cleric is the goto spec for trolling in 4.1

    Expect more cleric tanks in PVP.

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    I don't understand the equip proc on the eternal weapon.
    every spec imaginable runs below the 75% mana mark and loses the bonus damage in 15-20s no matter what you do.
    All these legendary abilities are marked in the tooltip as 'no cost' still cost mana and ruin it imho.
    im looking at these warrior and primalist eternal procs which grant reliable +50% and +60% damage bonuses, and this **** is simply not fair or equitable.
    cleric has gone from a middle-of-the-road spec in 4.0 to absolute garbage in 4.1 - i might just go main-spec justicar

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Oh dear, I've not tried the PTS yet, but it is sounding worrying..

    Just hoping runeshaper has at least a place somewhere.
    Fwob - Zaviel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    Oh dear, I've not tried the PTS yet, but it is sounding worrying..

    Just hoping runeshaper has at least a place somewhere.
    In 4.1 or at least judging by the current PTS iteration, Clerics will be roughly in the same league as Rogues. So I guess it's not that bad right, there are still some rogues left... Primalist will come in in between warriors/mages and clerics/rogues.

    So the 4.1 balance patch really didn't change much. Cept clerics dropped down a bit same for primalist (clerics more so than primalists).

    Everything is relatively the same as live. So take this "balance patch" with a grain of salt, since it didn't really balance jack **** regardless it taking 4 whole months to prepare, all 4.1/PTS changes did was creating new broken mage and warrior specs to replace their existing ones, and dropping down clerics and primalists little closer to rogue's level.

    Mages got more build diversity now, Necro with competitive single target and monstrous passive cleave, Pyro now 500k+ ST spec and could cleave a bit outside just firestorm, harbinger now also 500k+ spec with controllable cleave as well as build in disconnect utility, warlock will be used for dual or triple targeting and for executing bosses if needed. Basically ALL viable mage specs can cleave and has ranged capability.

    Primalist has new exciting souls coming out. Aftershock still competitive against rogues and clerics, Maelstrom is competitive upwards but not quite the warrior/mage level.

    Warriors... well I don't know why you play anything else other than tempest unless you need to cleave...

    Rogues, stick to shadeborn and sin and be mediocre dps and hope all the bosses are extremely melee friendly, marksman isn't competitive against other classes ranged specs other than Inquisitor.

    Clerics... well learn Druid, or stick to your 1 button shaman, or use inquisitor and compete with marksmans... and feel how rogues felt since the release of Starfall Prophecy.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 03-22-2017 at 09:41 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    In 4.1 or at least judging by the current PTS iteration, Clerics will be roughly in the same league as Rogues. So I guess it's not that bad right, there are still some rogues left... Primalist will come in in between warriors/mages and clerics/rogues.

    So the 4.1 balance patch really didn't change much. Cept clerics dropped down a bit same for primalist (clerics more so than primalists).

    Everything is relatively the same as live. So take this "balance patch" with a grain of salt, since it didn't really balance jack **** regardless it taking 4 whole months to prepare, all 4.1/PTS changes did was creating new broken mage and warrior specs to replace their existing ones, and dropping down clerics and primalists little closer to rogue's level.
    Im not sure what you mean by broken? if you mean specs that parse unusually high, we have pyro, harb and maybe necro but that is it in terms of dps. For healing chloro and frostkeeper are pretty well balanced if you really look at it. Lastly tanking, arbiter is not very overpowered, what makes this spec good is what legendaries along with offsouls you choose. Now in pve most of these specs make look good and function well but in pvp mages are the absolute bottom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redawn View Post
    Im not sure what you mean by broken? if you mean specs that parse unusually high, we have pyro, harb and maybe necro but that is it in terms of dps. For healing chloro and frostkeeper are pretty well balanced if you really look at it. Lastly tanking, arbiter is not very overpowered, what makes this spec good is what legendaries along with offsouls you choose. Now in pve most of these specs make look good and function well but in pvp mages are the absolute bottom.
    Broken means broken... like Pyroele.

    4.1 introduced 2 mage dps specs that does just as much dps as Pyroele on live while nerfing pyroele down... hence "introduced more broken specs to replace the existing one." Since no other classes other than Warriors could compete with mages in terms of raw DPS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    In 4.1 or at least judging by the current PTS iteration, Clerics will be roughly in the same league as Rogues. So I guess it's not that bad right, there are still some rogues left... Primalist will come in in between warriors/mages and clerics/rogues.

    So the 4.1 balance patch really didn't change much. Cept clerics dropped down a bit same for primalist (clerics more so than primalists).

    Everything is relatively the same as live. So take this "balance patch" with a grain of salt, since it didn't really balance jack **** regardless it taking 4 whole months to prepare, all 4.1/PTS changes did was creating new broken mage and warrior specs to replace their existing ones, and dropping down clerics and primalists little closer to rogue's level.

    Mages got more build diversity now, Necro with competitive single target and monstrous passive cleave, Pyro now 500k+ ST spec and could cleave a bit outside just firestorm, harbinger now also 500k+ spec with controllable cleave as well as build in disconnect utility, warlock will be used for dual or triple targeting and for executing bosses if needed. Basically ALL viable mage specs can cleave and has ranged capability.

    Primalist has new exciting souls coming out. Aftershock still competitive against rogues and clerics, Maelstrom is competitive upwards but not quite the warrior/mage level.

    Warriors... well I don't know why you play anything else other than tempest unless you need to cleave...

    Rogues, stick to shadeborn and sin and be mediocre dps and hope all the bosses are extremely melee friendly, marksman isn't competitive against other classes ranged specs other than Inquisitor.

    Clerics... well learn Druid, or stick to your 1 button shaman, or use inquisitor and compete with marksmans... and feel how rogues felt since the release of Starfall Prophecy.
    Not true Rogue and Warrior are on top in some fights over on PTS. It is more like Rogue and mage will be competitive but mostly in favor of rogue. Warrior over the top. Cleric barely competitive and who knows about primalist.. maybe competitive with mage probably.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 03-22-2017 at 11:40 PM.

  11. #11
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    Clerics... well learn Druid, or stick to your 1 button shaman, or use inquisitor and compete with marksmans... and feel how rogues felt since the release of Starfall Prophecy
    .

    I don't understand all that pitty for rogue.
    I feel like rogue is pretty strong right now.
    For example QF if you look at damage meter, a good rogue gets easily above 450k dps. Where mages go around 550k.
    Looks like mage are doing better dps huh ?
    But the truth is mage do 200k cleave on adds which isn't going towards the effective damage.(cuz adds are useless to dps)

    I think it's important to look at effective damage done, not the flat number or ****** firestorm boosting the general dps but not helping kill the boss faster.

    For the ranged part I can agree tho. I'd rather cut my fingers than play this awfully designed marksman spec.(talking about real mm, not the 1 button one)

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Sure they are cleaving with pyroele, but they're still easily topping dps meters on single target as well, so theres little need talking about effective dmg and total dmg. They're top on both.

    Well I can understand the obvious pity for rogues, because they have no range class, which is 2+ of their souls. This is not really acceptable and the fact the balance changes haven't compensated for this is mind bogling. I've only seen shadeborn do well on QTF, that's one soul :/

    I'm more concerned than ever after reading FateStayNight's post. I can't really fathom why they've nerfed Cleric so much considering they were not competitative with mages. For me the only issue was the runeoracle spec and even that doesn't seem to come out on top anymore with the firestorm nerf(?), so ye, really confused. We could really do with a post from a dev explaining the logical reasoning for their decisions, otherwise it's just getting more and more frustrating.


    Surely the biggest priority is to nerf a couple of the Mage specs, particularly pyroele. PvP shouldn't even be considered until PvE is balanced properly. Rift's priority has always put PvE above PvP, and I really don't think they should start to change that now considering they have even less resources than before.
    Last edited by Refuge; 03-23-2017 at 03:54 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    We could really do with a post from a dev explaining the logical reasoning for their decisions, otherwise it's just getting more and more frustrating.
    To get more sales on Primalist but also this IN MY OPINION. They don't cycle the bottom out anymore. They just leave cleric there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Cleric is in a bad place. I will share with you some bugs that should have been stickied by a dev. I tell you these in an effort for you to choose another calling but also if you stay with cleric you will not waste tons of plat on consumables or be crippled unknowingly forever because they did not sticky these things. This has crippled clerics for a long time especially new players. I even know of 2011 vets who have been wasting plat for years on consumables with them not being activated in warfronts.

    1) If you pvp you have reequip your weapons every warfront to actually benefit from procs from consumables. This has been around for years and never been fixed. Reported several times on forums.

    2) Some legendary buffs change to normal form after you die so you have to reapply that buff that suppose to last through death. This has been reported several times on the forums. It is also very difficult to tell if you have the right buff active as there really isn't a way to distinguish them right away. This can cause you to lose up to 15%+ damage per second if you forgot to refresh it.

    3) Many of the tool tips lie to you about what abilities they effect. For instance, some abilities that are instant are actually registered as cast times as they consume faith reward stacks even though they should be adding stacks. That is just one of the many lies the tool tips say. You will have to figure out the rest on your own so expect to actually have to read parses and do theory crafting to find out all the bugs, mostly crippling the calling.

    There is confirmation of class dev saying some bugs may never be fixed for priority reasons on live stream a few months back as well which has only fueled hopelessness into the cleric community.

    I decided that their is too much to not tell because I really want new players to know what they are getting into with this class.

    Onto itemization. Drop rates are distributed rather evening for each calling supposedly not for each type of gear. Since primalist and rogue share leather that means they will get drop rates much higher than the other classes. This was confirmed by the players but never confirmed fixed. It is unknown if they fixed it for SFP or if it was just a bandaid fix that will reoccur at a later date.

    Cleric is also one of the most expensive to gear of all the classes having to obtain the most high tier fragments to get best in slot which is somewhat impossible for them in PvP. This means other classes with tier 3-5 best in slots will always be marginally better than clerics even if parity was ever met in dps/hps. Can't understand this still? Basically they got the most screwed on itemization and are incredibly expensive to optimize.

    There is confirmation that clerics were now allowed to get a 1 sec. gcd soul again according to a dev post on the druid remake thread. Ultimately having the reactionary time increased by 50% for this class to respond to burst damage or deal burst. If they were to balance HPS Clerics will still be crippled by having a longer time to react to heavy damage compounded by souls that are littered with cast times and channels on top of it.

    I can keep going on and on about how poorly made the calling is as in talent placement and utility access or how legendary were changed from being used to being obsolete etc. but it will be too much to write. Forum devs should have a sticky dedicated to explaining these things to be honest as they are really really big issues in my opinion.

    Also, due to these facts I feel the world is against Cleric. Meaning all other classes will never accept it if cleric is OP on their level although like for mage they have 4 OP roles atm and it is acceptable for them vs. the one ability that really makes cleric somewhat OP FH in a tank spec. So with everyone shouting and crying devs will just nerf cleric unfairly again. This has to do with how long Cleric stayed at the bottom. Either way they will lose players on both sides if they ever made cleric OP so at the very moment I think cleric became the class that is just their to be victimized to keep the other 4 classes happy. And I think there won't be anymore up and down balancing like the old school devs where the bottom spot gets traded out fairly. I think that cleric will eventually get OP in dps and hps but it won't last the year or years the other classes have been in those roles. For instance, Physician was OP from when it was introduced in SL, all the way up until they introduced FK in NT. That is an incredibly long time. You don't want to play a class that is OP 1-2 week and then nerfed into oblivion for 6 months. Is OP 1-2 weeks then nerfed for 6 months etc. Trust me.

    They once joked on live stream that they were deleting cleric. Maybe this is what they really meant but couldn't say it.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 03-23-2017 at 04:11 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    ...or use inquisitor and compete with marksmans... and feel how rogues felt since the release of Starfall Prophecy.
    It is about average player vs. above average player. Average player who plays MM/Sab in PvP could compete with above average player in KBs because of how face roll 1 button MM is. Inquisitor is nowhere near as easy to KB as MM has been in SFP.

    Average players will never come close to competing with an above average player for instance using Xclusive parses to justify inquisitor for PvP. He was the only person I ever seen perform that well with inquisitor in PvP in hundreds of warfronts. The average player using inq is nowhere near that level. Nowhere. Leaderboards show these things.

    As for PvE, they haven't released content that is challenging enough that bringing a low dps is so bad that it can cause a raid to have to replace them. Everything so far is tuned so low even low dps are not that much of a problem to bring with you in dungeons. When tier raiding is introduced that makes you have to adjust for dps timers is when dps competition matters. Since now there is only 10 spots in a raid I don't think their is room for cleric to dps. Just heal and tank anyway. It seems like those are the only areas taking them will not be so crippling toward the raid to be honest. I would say support too but oracle is in a very bad place so I don't know about that.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 03-23-2017 at 04:46 AM.

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    In a recent dungeon I was voted out because my average 275k dps wasn't good enough. But it's really the maximum that my Shaman can do. And with 4.1 this is going to be even more embarrassing.

    I'm not going to re roll. So I don't know what else to do besides logging out and hoping for a Cleric comeback some time in the future.

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