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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Current State of Warden

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    Plane Walker Zojah's Avatar
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    Default Current State of Warden

    So far in SFP for the first time ever I'm not actually enjoying playing Warden.

    Prior to SFP it was *the* most enjoyable Class (for me and I'm sure many others that played it correctly). Now with the latest changes and introduction of Legendaries it's very much like constantly playing whack-a-mole to play it to it's full potential.

    There are a couple of bugs, but I'll get to those shortly.

    I'm currently using this spec (though Sentinal points might be distributed differently, currently at work so can't check).

    1 - It gets flagged as Support.

    2 - The Legendary version of Wasting Insignia is too good to pass on, meaning you have to take additional points that aren't really benefiting to you. E.G. the 3 I've dumped into War Mentality. I feel it would be more beneficial to increase the % healing bonus on Bolt of Light and Flame lance ever so slightly, thus giving you more healing talents that will benefit you. (Emblem of Ice on HoT refresh before anyone says you should use Puri anyway )

    3 - I'm pretty sure that from what I can see, there is an issue with the range of Healing Flood. During the Houndmaster Kytus fight, there were times when a player was not receiving stacks, they were definitely within range too.

    4 - Smart Targetting is horrible. It makes using Legendary Healing Flood with over 10 people not possible.

    5 - In essence you're currently monitoring:

    - SS stacks on Self,
    - Healing Spray on Self,
    - Healing Flood Stacks on Self
    - Danger of the Deeps Stacks
    - Wasting Insignia Buff
    - Bolt of Light Buff
    - Faith's Reward Stacks
    - Pool of Restoration CD
    - Ripple CD
    - Buggy Monsoon CD
    - Tidal Surge CD

    6 - The basis of using Geyser as a filler for Rising Tides having Tidal Surge ready for the Healing Flood is now pointless (see below).

    The bugs that are making this spec painful...

    1 - Monsoon with Legendary Healing Flood - With this you can stack Healing Flood up to 4 times. For some reason this will randomly remove all stacks of Healing Flood even though you've refreshed them.

    2 - Tidal Surge - Doesn't work with Monsoon / Legendary Healing Flood. Also reported by Unusualbunny.

    3 - Legendary Healing Flood is granting 2 stacks of Faith Rewarded if you cast it any further than once.

    4 - Orbs feel useless. Yes, Warden is meant to be preventative, though these spells seem incredibly week now (though this *could* be my gear).

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zojah View Post
    1 - Monsoon with Legendary Healing Flood - With this you can stack Healing Flood up to 4 times. For some reason this will randomly remove all stacks of Healing Flood even though you've refreshed them.
    This bug is actually extremely beneficial to warden because you gain an extra stack of a HoT during Monsoon that cause all the multipliers to boost your healing even more.

    The reason why you are losing "all" stacks is because Monsoon apply the non-legendary version of Healing Flood (Which is most likely a bug). You won't lose your stacks if you reapply Legendary Healing Flood on its own timer instead of the timer given to you by the non-legendary healing flood that was just applied by Monsoon.

    For example, you have 10 seconds left on your Legendary Healing Flood and you use Monsoon. It shows that you have 20 seconds left after Monsoon on the 4 stacks of Healing Flood but the truth is that you have 10 seconds left on 3 stacks of Legendary and 20 seconds left on 1 stack of non-legendary.


    4 - Smart Targetting is horrible. It makes using Legendary Healing Flood with over 10 people not possible.
    Legendary Healing Flood is applied to 20 people from the same talent that makes non-legendary Healing Flood apply to 20 people.

    - Buggy Monsoon CD
    What's buggy about it?
    The ability has a 1 minute CD and gets its CD reduced by Legendary Pool of Restoration. I didn't notice any bug with Monsoon's CD.

    4 - Orbs feel useless. Yes, Warden is meant to be preventative, though these spells seem incredibly week now (though this *could* be my gear).
    It's not the orbs that are too weak, it's the rest of Warden that is too strong.
    I can pump more than 4 times what my fully decked out Chloromancer's mage can heal for with only 4 pieces of expert dungeon gear and greens on my cleric as a Warden. (Thanks to the broken Healing Crystal interactions with all the multipliers added by Legendaries)
    I can outheal single target healers using AoE heals by more than 2 times their heals and apply it to 5-10 people simultaneously.
    I do 1.5 to 1.8 millions over-healing per second in a five man dungeon while playing on snooze, so long as I rotate between Monsoon and Ripple and keep my Healing Flood and Soothing Stream up. The rest of the things to monitor is just extra that get wasted anyways in overheals.
    Bosun's Blessing literally crit for over an entire tank's health pool and can even reach 800k crits with good gear in a raid settting.
    Last edited by Batislack; 02-21-2017 at 02:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zojah View Post
    2 - The Legendary version of Wasting Insignia is too good to pass on, meaning you have to take additional points that aren't really benefiting to you. E.G. the 3 I've dumped into War Mentality. I feel it would be more beneficial to increase the % healing bonus on Bolt of Light and Flame lance ever so slightly, thus giving you more healing talents that will benefit you. (Emblem of Ice on HoT refresh before anyone says you should use Puri anyway )
    This is legit the only reason to get oracle to be honest. At the moment it isn't competitive with other class supports and if they do nothing for the soul in 4.1 it will actually get nerfed even more like it is on PTS. If they build a specific situation for oracles 61 legendary like a requirement for success on a raid boss it just comes off wrong because they will be going back to how it was with defiler and puri requirements for some bosses which was a big reason why those classes were revamped and heavily nerfed.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 02-21-2017 at 02:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batislack View Post
    Warden stuff.
    Do people actually think warden is working as intended? I find it hard to believe... really.

    You have a pure aoe burst healing soul putting out the biggest "single target heal" that can tick for more than double the tanks's entire life bar that's passively automatically proc, and applies to the entire raid at the same time...

    I bet if there's no "raid group limit" meaning if warden's smart heals could reach other people not in the same raid freely, a single skilled warden can probably keep multiple 20-men raids alive solo.

    But hey maybe that's just how Warden supposed to work in the age of SFP. Sent and puri is just there for the novelty.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 02-21-2017 at 02:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    Do people actually think warden is working as intended? I find it hard to believe... really.

    You have a pure aoe burst healing soul putting out the biggest "single target heal" that can tick for more than double the tanks's entire life bar that's passively automatically proc, and applies to the entire raid at the same time...

    I bet if there's no "raid group limit" meaning if warden's smart heals could reach other people not in the same raid freely, a single skilled warden can probably keep multiple 20-men raids alive solo.

    But hey maybe that's just how Warden supposed to work in the age of SFP. Sent and puri is just there for the novelty.
    Did you read the latest warden changes on PTS? Legendary Bosun's is reduced from 75% to 20%! THAT IS HUGE.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 02-21-2017 at 02:48 AM.

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    Plane Walker Zojah's Avatar
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRF_IJIYXFE

    This is pre-SFP without the broken Legendary
    Last edited by Zojah; 02-21-2017 at 02:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    Do people actually think warden is working as intended? I find it hard to believe... really.
    Are you implying that I believe warden is working as intended with that question?

    Because I never implied such a thing in my post.

    Warden is utterly overpowered, it can heal what a healer would heal 2 expansions in the future and more.
    The nerf on the PTS barely put a dent in its healing and a Warden will still heal more than 6 AoE healers combined by itself in a raid.

    Obviously, it's not working as intended.
    But you won't see much outrage about it because of how irrelevant PvE healing is currently, how so few clerics actually have any idea of how to play Warden and the fact that PvP healing crystal are bolstered in PvP meaning Warden can't abuse the living **** out of it and double, if not triple, a Tactician heal in PvP that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Did you read the latest warden changes on PTS? Legendary Bosun's is reduced from 75% to 20%! THAT IS HUGE.
    That is absolutely nothing. Like throwing the nerf hammer into the ocean.
    Bosun's is only about ~20% of a Warden's healing. It means a Warden will heal 6.8 millions per second instead of 7.6 millions in a 10 man.
    Big freaking deal.
    Last edited by Batislack; 02-21-2017 at 03:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batislack View Post
    Are you implying that I believe warden is working as intended with that question?

    Because I never implied such a thing in my post.

    Warden is utterly overpowered, it can heal what a healer would heal 2 expansions in the future and more.
    The nerf on the PTS barely put a dent in its healing and a Warden will still heal more than 6 AoE healers combined by itself in a raid.

    Obviously, it's not working as intended.
    But you won't see much outrage about it because of how irrelevant PvE healing is currently, how so few clerics actually have any idea of how to play Warden and the fact that PvP healing crystal are bolstered in PvP meaning Warden can't abuse the living **** out of it and double, if not triple, a Tactician heal in PvP that way.


    That is absolutely nothing. Like throwing the nerf hammer into the ocean.
    Bosun's is only about ~20% of a Warden's healing. It means a Warden will heal 6.8 millions per second instead of 7.6 millions in a 10 man.
    Big freaking deal.
    Most of those heals are overhealing.. and the way you put it is just flat out wrong. You are making it seem that warden can ST and AoE heal single handily all the raid content. With the nerf to Bosun's this is a good start in making an ST healer relevant. I am sure other fixes and nerfs will come in time.

    Keep in mind not all classes are going to be balanced 1 to 1 in every role they choose. It may in fact be that warden will end up better than chloro and harb for instance better than druid or shaman. Or warlock better than defiler. Or Archon better than Oracle.


    OHH WAIT THEY ALL ARE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Most of those heals are overhealing.. and the way you put it is just flat out wrong. You are making it seem that warden can ST and AoE heal single handily all the raid content. With the nerf to Bosun's this is a good start in making an ST healer relevant. I am sure other fixes and nerfs will come in time.

    Keep in mind not all classes are going to be balanced 1 to 1 in every role they choose. It may in fact be that warden will end up better than chloro and harb for instance better than druid or shaman. Or warlock better than defiler. Or Archon better than Oracle.


    OHH WAIT THEY ALL ARE!
    It isn't wrong. Warden CAN ST and AoE heal single handily all the currently released content and will be able to heal Tartaric Depth LFR single handily too from what was seen on the PTS, without ever breaking a sweat, because Warden most basic heal, Healing Cataract, can fully heal a tank by itself. Bosun's Blessing is already over, over, over healing its target.
    The only thing it will nerf is cheesing with Downpour that procs Bosun's Blessing on each tick of its heal.

    And don't compare DPS difference with this. Warlock doesn't do 1000% more damage than Defiler. Warden DOES over 1000% more healing than Chloromancer.
    Because they are overhealing doesn't change the fact that a Warden heals an entire raid to full twice over every GCD and more, other healers do not.

    I get it, you don't want them to nerf Warden, there is no limit to how delusional someone can be after all.
    Last edited by Batislack; 02-21-2017 at 03:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batislack View Post
    It isn't wrong. Warden CAN ST and AoE heal single handily all the currently released content and will be able to heal Tartaric Depth LFR single handily too from what was seen on the PTS, without ever breaking a sweat, because Warden most basic heal, Healing Cataract, can fully heal a tank by itself. Bosun's Blessing is already over, over, over healing its target.
    The only thing it will nerf is cheesing with Downpour that procs Bosun's Blessing on each tick of its heal.

    And don't compare DPS difference with this. Warlock doesn't do 1000% more damage than Defiler. Warden DOES over 1000% more healing than Chloromancer.
    Because they are overhealing doesn't change the fact that a Warden heals an entire raid to full twice over every GCD and more, other healers do not.

    I get it, you don't want them to nerf Warden, there is no limit to how delusional someone can be after all.
    If they can ST and AoE TD then something will obviously be fixed before its release. Point is even if they don't fix it you shouldn't complain too much because there is more souls that are working better than cleric. And AoE healers have ALWAYS been able to pull at least 10x more HPS in overhealing than ST dps.Back in SFP dps was average around 130K. Guess what chloro and warden over healing was! 1- 1.5million. And that was even befor MoM. So far I haven't seen a warden single heal all of TD. My guild tested 3 bosses. None of them were able to be single healed. Maybe post the video of you doing it and it will get fixed faster.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 02-21-2017 at 04:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    And AoE healers have ALWAYS been able to pull at least 10x more HPS in overhealing than ST dps.
    Who cares about the difference between DPS and HPS.
    We're talking about the different in HPS between healers.
    Warden can heal up to nearly 7-8x what a chloro can heal.

    This is all there is to know about it and the nerf to Bosun's Blessing is not going to change that.
    4.1 is 1 week away and the only change so far is to Bosun's Blessing. With the speed at which changes are done, Warden will be able to fully heal a raid every GCD in 4.1 like it is able to do right now.

    P.S. I don't care what your guild is or isn't capable of doing. Nor do I care whether Trion fix anything faster or not, they haven't fixed healing crystal since the day they introduced them, nor did they fix hailstorm since Stormcaller got revamped (instead making it worse by introducing LFire Storm) and they are now only fixing Chloro's cross-healing after 4... 5... 6 years now.
    Last edited by Batislack; 02-21-2017 at 04:17 AM.

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    Warden isnt strong at all come on now,

    Being able to tank while also healing every dungeon and the wet noodle they called a 10 man raid boss (without any other healer) with just 15 points in warden is totally fine.

    i dont get why people worry about it healing output right now in pve any way. pretty much everything is going to be designed around easy boss fights. Which means any class should be able to heal stuff any way.

    The main point zojah was making (i think) and i some what agree with him is at least make the specs 'fun' to play. Right now its getting close to a healing version of defiler, whilst making 50% of its skills a pretty picture on ability bars to stare at but to never use them because then they would turn gray, and no body likes that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batislack View Post
    Who cares about the difference between DPS and HPS.
    We're talking about the different in HPS between healers.
    Warden can heal up to nearly 7-8x what a chloro can heal.
    Would you rather play one class that can aoe heal like a beast and be sub par in everything else? Or one class that is better than yours in everything else but can't aoe as well? IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE. Point is I agree warden needs to be tone down WHICH IS ALOT EASIER THAN BUFFING ALMOST EVERY SOUL of the cleric. Just because your main role is chloro doesn't mean Trion has to cater to you. If you want to excel at something else over cleric just play the role that does. If your so pro at it in this case maybe consider it fun to actually play those other roles and learn something different. I would definitely find it boring to AoE all the time. At least mage have alot more options and according to most people all AoE heals are good enough for TD making warden not even required.

    Keep in mind more people play dps. No one brings only 2 dps to a raid. Do you think Trion ever had perfect balance between classes? Warden wasn't even used pre MoM in SL for the most part. Heck we use to use two chloros in most of HK. They were simply better than Warden prior to warden buffs. What was that like going on 1 year+ of warden being redundant?
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 02-21-2017 at 04:30 AM.

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    Plane Walker Zojah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    Would you rather play one class that can aoe heal like a beast and be sub par in everything else? Or one class that is better than yours in everything else but can't aoe as well? IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE. Point is I agree warden needs to be tone down WHICH IS ALOT EASIER THAN BUFFING ALMOST EVERY SOUL of the cleric. Just because your main role is chloro doesn't mean Trion has to cater to you. If you want to excel at something else over cleric just play the role that does. If your so pro at it in this case maybe consider it fun to actually play those other roles and learn something different. I would definitely find it boring to AoE all the time. At least mage have alot more options and according to most people all AoE heals are good enough for TD making warden not even required.

    Keep in mind more people play dps. No one brings only 2 dps to a raid. Do you think Trion ever had perfect balance between classes? Warden wasn't even used pre MoM in SL for the most part. Heck we use to use two chloros in most of HK. They were simply better than Warden prior to warden buffs. What was that like going on 1 year+ of warden being redundant?
    I think the problem here is prior to SFP, not many knew how to play the Class correctly. Now it's been buffed it's just introducing bad habits that are as those are saying "OP".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    [...]
    The hell are you even talking about.
    Please don't give me the "My class has it worse than yours." ********.
    A class being stronger or weaker than another in X or Y doesn't justify a spec being overpowered or underpowered.
    Keeps the class rivalry out of it, I could just as well talk about Liberator instead of Chloro or even talk to you about how Primalist can't heal for ****, period. Class doesn't matter here.
    Last edited by Batislack; 02-21-2017 at 04:37 AM.

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