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Thread: Late druid rework feedback. Would appreciate a CM?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Late druid rework feedback. Would appreciate a CM?

    Apparently druids were changed while I was gone... but I'm not seeing why? As this was always my favorite soul in my favorite class, I had to throw my suggestions out there. If anyone has reasonable responses as to why the changes were beneficial, I'd be interested to know... but it seems like we've lost a ton of utility and versatility in exchange for "technically getting a small DPS increase."

    1- How is Conduit of Nature intended to work?
    As a level 58 ability, it has to be "good." But, I see no situation where one would ever want to use the buff from anything but the destroyer... and if losing the damage from the destroyer is "worth" the 15% buff you get by having him stand around watching, then the pets have lost FAR too much potency. The pet's damage is a major part of 32 of your 61 talents and is the majority of your passive "per druid point" buff. If losing that much of your talent tree is worth any of the buffs from conduit, the talent tree is fundamentally broken.

    2- The nature's force/edict/censure/weakness minigame isn't fun. Druids are looking at plenty of things and can be interupting and fae extracting and keeping thorns and eruption up... they don't need to be watching a debuff stack to exchange for other debuffs for a small personal DPS increase. Let Shamen do that. I'd like to see Thorns be brought back to more relevance. Those procs used to be worth about 1/3 of a fervent strike... now it's worth maybe 1/10th of one. Still a net gain for bosses that will stay focused long enough to proc more than 10 times... otherwise it's just not worth casting (especially since it doesn't fit in macros). I'd suggest getting rid of the nature line entirely and either just boosting thorns ire's damage or at least coding it similar to defiler's Marrow Harvest or Cabalist's Tyranny of death where it can't be cast on a target that already has the debuff, therefore has the potential to fit into a macro so the druid can watch other things.

    3- Rapid summon seems redundant given our tier 2 skills that already make summons a 2 second cast.

    4- Losing spirit of upheaval seems like a huge deal to me. Druids do fine in single target, but in an AoE situation, our only option is to spam wild strike... which is quite boring. We used to switch to fae seer, activate SoU and Fae Dispersion, and we could contribute quite a bit of damage with our AoE of AoEs. It didn't step on a cabalist's shoes by any means, but it was nice. (also, the shield of oak thing doesn't seem to scale in the modern game. The value went up, but it can absorb a quarter of one hit.)
    Last edited by Mohrb; 12-27-2016 at 10:29 AM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohrb View Post
    1-I see no situation where one would ever want to use the buff from anything but the destroyer...

    2- The nature's force/edict/censure/weakness minigame isn't fun.

    4- Losing spirit of upheaval seems like a huge deal to me. Druids do fine in single target, but in an AoE situation, our only option is to spam wild strike... which is quite boring.
    1). I'd like to know why they changed fairy seer to 15% c/d reduction instead of increased range. Everyone with half a brain realizes that 15%damage>15% c/d reduction. At least with the first iteration of the rework you could choose utility and survivability vs raw dmg.

    2). Pretty sure everyone feels the same about this. The end result is that it's the #1 thing druids have to juggle. Missing a +30% dmg debuff is just ridiculous, locking that debuff behind 5x 'attack points' and an additional debuff in a 1.5 sec gcd spec makes everyone want to rip their hair out.

    4). And wild strike isn't even good enough to use. Seriously, 1x ST spam attack > 5 target AoE w/ wild strike. Druid's attacks are locked behind a shopping list of debuffs/buffs that ultimately boosts ability damage to acceptable levels, but NONE of those debuffs/buffs work with Wild Strike.
    1. EoL doesn't have a way to AoE apply, so it'd take all your time to try and spread it singularly, so that debuff is out the window
    2. Combined effort only applies on ST attacks, so that won't work (only 5sec duration too)
    3. Nature's Weakness
    4. Crushing force -More like a ST attack than a debuff, but required for above
    5. Resounding Blow has a c/d, and won't benefit Wild strike anyway.
    Now for a list of 'druid buffs' that benefit wild strike:
    1. Bolt of Light +15% damage
    Essentially even the lowest damage spam ability in druid (Bolt of Light) would do as much dps as a 5x target wild strike. The ONLY benefit to wild strike is that you don't need to manage any debuffs.



    The tldr version of Druid Aoe is that Purifier does more AoE dps than it. Spirit of Upheaval was a druids only AoE. Was being the keyword.
    Last edited by Zehne; 12-29-2016 at 02:00 PM.

  3. #3
    Fia
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    Druid is probably the worst spec gamplay-wise in the entire game. 1.5sec GCD for a melee spec is a bad joke. It feels and plays sluggish. The buff gained from each pet is absolute nonsense. Tbh, THIS is where legendary abilities would have made sense for druid, i.e. 61 point druid gets legendary pets with some cool new abilities or buffs. As Zehne mentioned, the AOE is so bad, you can just flat out throw it out the window. All the utility druids have can basically not be used without (risking) a massive dps loss, which makes them utterly useless for any kind of serious gameplay (and I'm not even talking about PvP). The rework is - in one word - catastrophic. I think the only really good ability that druid has is the legendary healing fae.

    It is clear as day that the rework was NOT tested in any kind of dungeon/raid/pvp situations and class synergies were (almost) not taken into account, at all. That's also exactly what the gameplay feels like.

    FeelsBadMan. :/
    Last edited by Fia; 12-30-2016 at 01:50 AM.
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    I think the overall class is in a bad state and it has been for awhile. They haven't even fixed the bugs reported to them over 6 months ago. Not even on PTS. It is pretty sad. I won't go into detail. You should just reroll or pray the developers get their act together. DPS is not the only thing to balance.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 12-29-2016 at 08:14 PM.

  5. #5
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    Another big challenge since I've come back... justicar salvation used to not only proc off pet hits, but was enough of a heal to make druid soloing pretty reliable. Since remake, survivability is a pretty big problem.

    Rift's biggest advantage over certain other MMOs is that rift wasn't supposed to have a meta. Certain things may be "optimal" but you were supposed to create your own class and allow for weird combinations and hybrids to be viable. Not everything HAS to be balanced because different sould accel differently. And that's OK. The question should be "deciding which cool stuff to do"... not just min-maxing the correct raid build to top damage meters.

    So... what positive feedback can we give? What ideal things would we like to see a druid able to do?
    Last edited by Mohrb; 01-09-2017 at 01:23 AM.

  6. #6
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    My wishlist-

    1- focus on druid's being a solo-utility soul. They can sacrifice some damage in exchange for unique effects.
    2- definitely needs survivability. Some sort of fae essence bond where your attacks heal your fae and the fae's atacks heal you.
    3- shield of oak and glacial shield need to have relevant values. For a 30 second cooldown, they should generally last a few hits. Likewise the damage reflects from clacial shield, shroud of agony, and sign of wrath needs to be significant. Can't have all at once, but damage reflection has been going away since voltaic feedback, and that's a shame
    4- .the 64 ability "faiths reward" is plenty to facilitate rapid summoning. So rapid summoning, nature's edict, and conduit can all go for various pet based buffs?
    5- Make thorns of ire relevant. In specifically 20 man raids the damage should go up, but in such raids other specs will definitely leave druids in their dust anyway. Over a rather long test, keeping thorns up at all times and having my pet attacking, thorns has been dealing roughly half the damage of my auto attacks. That's sad.
    Last edited by Mohrb; 01-09-2017 at 01:24 AM.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker Nickalispicalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohrb View Post
    Apparently druids were changed while I was gone... but I'm not seeing why? As this was always my favorite soul in my favorite class, I had to throw my suggestions out there. If anyone has reasonable responses as to why the changes were beneficial, I'd be interested to know... but it seems like we've lost a ton of utility and versatility in exchange for "technically getting a small DPS increase."

    1- How is Conduit of Nature intended to work?
    As a level 58 ability, it has to be "good." But, I see no situation where one would ever want to use the buff from anything but the destroyer... and if losing the damage from the destroyer is "worth" the 15% buff you get by having him stand around watching, then the pets have lost FAR too much potency. The pet's damage is a major part of 32 of your 61 talents and is the majority of your passive "per druid point" buff. If losing that much of your talent tree is worth any of the buffs from conduit, the talent tree is fundamentally broken.

    2- The nature's force/edict/censure/weakness minigame isn't fun. Druids are looking at plenty of things and can be interupting and fae extracting and keeping thorns and eruption up... they don't need to be watching a debuff stack to exchange for other debuffs for a small personal DPS increase. Let Shamen do that. I'd like to see Thorns be brought back to more relevance. Those procs used to be worth about 1/3 of a fervent strike... now it's worth maybe 1/10th of one. Still a net gain for bosses that will stay focused long enough to proc more than 10 times... otherwise it's just not worth casting (especially since it doesn't fit in macros). I'd suggest getting rid of the nature line entirely and either just boosting thorns ire's damage or at least coding it similar to defiler's Marrow Harvest or Cabalist's Tyranny of death where it can't be cast on a target that already has the debuff, therefore has the potential to fit into a macro so the druid can watch other things.

    3- Rapid summon seems redundant given our tier 2 skills that already make summons a 2 second cast.

    4- Losing spirit of upheaval seems like a huge deal to me. Druids do fine in single target, but in an AoE situation, our only option is to spam wild strike... which is quite boring. We used to switch to fae seer, activate SoU and Fae Dispersion, and we could contribute quite a bit of damage with our AoE of AoEs. It didn't step on a cabalist's shoes by any means, but it was nice. (also, the shield of oak thing doesn't seem to scale in the modern game. The value went up, but it can absorb a quarter of one hit.)

    They effectively destroyed the Druid Soul and never bothered to fix it. I too have recently come back and was certain that the Druid soul would have seen some changes but was shocked to find it in its broken unfinished state. The best thing they could do at this point would be to reverse everything and leave it the way it was, but that will never happen because it would be tantamount to an admission of complete failure. Talk about stating the obvious.

    In my opinion this is the worst rework any soul in RIFT has ever seen. Nobody asked for these type of changes and the "Developer" dismissed all feedback.
    Rift mobile app still broken


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  8. #8
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    i wish if devs focus on souls and soul balance around like 61s (neglect and nerf OP hybrids) cuz you know they're gonna be game breaking or causing bad souls to exist .

    i really don't mind hybrids BUUUT i think we have a fair amount of neglected souls do to taking the possible OP hybrids into consideration (just making assumptions) .

    i like rift cuz it lets you be a melee/range/tank/heals/support all in one character which is so good (most games wont let you do that btw) and im sure i'll be upset if one of my parts was bad (none competitive) .
    Last edited by berbash; 01-05-2017 at 02:57 AM.

  9. #9
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    I dunno... the original concept of Rift was to ENCOURAGE you to build your own unique class by combining various souls... and to get away from the standard of "dump everything into one spec and you have 1-2 viable options for your off points" leading to the majority of builds being the same 61/15/0 or at weirdest a 61/10/5.

    But ya know what... the most fun I have is when I can make a 38/38/0 build work. I'd like to go back to the basics and encourage a lot of aynergy potential in the lower 38 of each spec and have the rest of the way to 61 be more specialized... i wanna see damage shields and procs make a come back... the weird **** is what makes rift different and good.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker Nickalispicalis's Avatar
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    Its criminal though to leave the Druid in this state. They should have never touched it to begin with, it this was intention. The 1.5 gcd makes play a complete joke.

    Druid use to be the soul that you would not raid, pvp, or do experts with but it was fun to solo with. Now its not useful for anything. They took away all the passive healing, so even if you do you have no choice but to use the healing pet.
    Last edited by Nickalispicalis; 01-27-2017 at 01:37 PM.
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