+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 13 of 13
Like Tree4Likes
  • 1 Post By UnusualBunny
  • 1 Post By Revamp Systems
  • 1 Post By Thunrar
  • 1 Post By Revamp Systems

Thread: Warden: healing flood

  1. #1
    Telaran UnusualBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    90

    Default Warden: healing flood

    Im just wondering why the normal ability is applied on 20 players

    but the legendary one is only applied on 10 players. Keeping it up on 20 players in rift farming requires me to spam it non stop else the stacks drop.

    Might it be the old coding from the healing flood before it got changed to 20 players not 'that long' ago. or is this intentional

  2. #2
    Ascendant forbiddenlake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    5,751

    Default

    The mastery isn't applying to the legendary version
    Please fix

  3. #3
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,612

    Default

    There are other legendary versions that have had their original effects removed (Liberator - Medical Facility) and are intended. Chances are that the legendary version applying to 10 is actually intended given that it specifies 10 in the tooltip itself.

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    There are other legendary versions that have had their original effects removed (Liberator - Medical Facility) and are intended. Chances are that the legendary version applying to 10 is actually intended given that it specifies 10 in the tooltip itself.
    If it is intended then it's intended because of the lack of 20 man content planned for the future. Since 10 man raids are going to be the focus it will be fine if the spell only affects 10 people.

    My problem with this right now is that there is no raid (which is fine with me at the moment) so the content where you would use a warden is IAs or open world content, where the 10 man Healing Flood is terrible.

    I say terrible because the spell has no way of reliably being applied to the same 10 people every time you cast it, so you spend at least 6 gcds trying to get it on everyone. Then you may not be able to maintain it if casting it to refresh the HoT doesn't hit the people it should. This is on top of the Danger of the Deeps stacks wardens have to maintain as well as any other HoTs that we may need to use or major CDs that need to be popped to save a raid. There's a lot for warden to keep track of, and the functionality of Legendary Healing Flood isn't helping right now (Plus the legendary version has issues with some of our big CDs, specifically Monsoon, which I think still applies a 4th stack that can't be refreshed and doesn't refresh existing stacks so that your 3 existing stacks all fall off regardless of Monsoon being cast).

    Group Therapy (from physician) functions where it only hits so many targets (I think 10), targetting the injured players first as a smart heal. This is fine since there's only one stack that's ever applied, whereas Healing Flood can now stack to three. On the other end is Mass Casualty Response (Liberator) which stacks to 3 and hits 20 people, which is okay because you always apply the HoT to any and all raid members that are in range. Healing Flood (non-legendary) works this way, and it works because we don't have to spam the ability to make it hit every player. The combination of the 10 player limit and 3 stacks doesn't work because we can't reliably maintain the three stacks in raids larger than 10 players.

    Basically, I'm okay if they want to make the Legendary version only hit 10 people when future raid content will focus on 10 people, but I'm not okay with the impossible to control version that we have now which makes healing open world content and IAs far more painful than it should.

    Thinking about it now, I don't really understand why they changed it to only hit 10 players, since it's not going to affect 10 man content if it hits 20 people, and 20 man content is non-competitive open world or IA content. It would still be totally okay for the ability to hit 20 people and stack to 3, because the concern that it would be overpowered doesn't matter if it only has too much throughput in content that isn't competitive.

  5. #5
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revamp Systems View Post
    Thinking about it now, I don't really understand why they changed it to only hit 10 players, since it's not going to affect 10 man content if it hits 20 people, and 20 man content is non-competitive open world or IA content. It would still be totally okay for the ability to hit 20 people and stack to 3, because the concern that it would be overpowered doesn't matter if it only has too much throughput in content that isn't competitive.
    With that logic, you wouldn't need to grab the Healing Flood legendary for content like that. It's basically forcing you to make an option: Healing Flood on 20? No legendary. Healing Flood on 10? Grab Legendary.

    There are other souls that have options you wouldn't take in PVE but you'd want in PVP and vice-versa. Or for your playstyle or needs.

    That's really the only reason it "makes sense."

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    241

    Default

    Given that the tooltip says can affect up to ten players - which is the same as the unmastery'd tooltip for the standard version, instead of stating can ONLY affect ten players (see chloromancer's radiant spores legendary where an in tree talent affects spreading but not for legendary and the tooltip specifically states can only affect one target), I suspect its probably a bug rather than an intended.

    It would be nice to see clarification from a Dev though as we could debate this all week.

    Along with the above it would also be nice if Monsoon applied the correct legendary / non-legendary version when cast because it plays heck with my karuuls - the game from what I can see shows 4 stacks of Healing flood once you cast monsoon with legendary healing flood BUT the original 3 stacks, which I cant track separately fall off when they should have done, separate to the new stack from monsoon leaving 1 stack for the remaining time. Real PITA tbh.
    You are entitled to a vomit bag, if you do not have one, one will be provided for you. We're strapped for cash so it may be used, barf carefully!

    Councillor Thunrar@Zaviel Keeper of the Dead <Servants of None>
    Guild Motto: Why did that happen? Because **** you that's why!

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    With that logic, you wouldn't need to grab the Healing Flood legendary for content like that. It's basically forcing you to make an option: Healing Flood on 20? No legendary. Healing Flood on 10? Grab Legendary.

    There are other souls that have options you wouldn't take in PVE but you'd want in PVP and vice-versa. Or for your playstyle or needs.

    That's really the only reason it "makes sense."
    I can see the point that there's other options than legendary Healing Flood that can be taken if we want to have the 20 man version of Flood.

    The issue I have with this is the lack of other healing based legendary abilities for the soul. As of right now there's five legendary possibilities that can be taken: Waterjet, Flood, Glassy Reflection, Bosun's Blessing, and Pools of Restoration.

    Waterjet is fine if you want damage reduction, but in terms of throughput its not a healing legendary. Glassy Reflection is in the same boat. These two fit more in a PVP oriented build, with waterjet also useful in some variations of Justicar.

    The last three legendaries are healing based. Pools of Restoration reduces the CD on Monsoon, one of our major CDs. Bosun's Blessing is just straight extra healing with the only condition being the number of HoTs we have running. Then there's Flood, which is more healing at the cost of a few GCDs.

    In content where you only need to worry about healing (PVE content) it seems more appropriate to take the healing based legendaries. The two utility legendaries are fine for PVP, since you need to worry about being focused down.

    My point is that the current legendaries that Warden has can be broken into two categories: healing increase or personal survivability increase.

    As it stands, I want to take Healing Flood because it lets me do more healing and help the raid more, but the way it currently works seems contrary to that idea, at least until 10 mans are released.

  8. #8
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revamp Systems View Post
    The issue I have with this is the lack of other healing based legendary abilities for the soul. As of right now there's five legendary possibilities that can be taken: Waterjet, Flood, Glassy Reflection, Bosun's Blessing, and Pools of Restoration.

    The last three legendaries are healing based. Pools of Restoration reduces the CD on Monsoon, one of our major CDs. Bosun's Blessing is just straight extra healing with the only condition being the number of HoTs we have running. Then there's Flood, which is more healing at the cost of a few GCDs.

    My point is that the current legendaries that Warden has can be broken into two categories: healing increase or personal survivability increase.
    44+ can have 3 Legendaries max
    15pt can have 2 Legenadries max
    0pt can have 1 Legendary max

    You do realize what you wrote out here is perfectly fine, right? That's how you're pretty much expected to spend your legendaries.

    You've got low tier legendaries (0pt) that are designed to be picked up while using that soul as an offsoul. If you have to go 15pt in for your 2nd Legendary, you're not going for a 61pt build but sacrificing it for whatever you need/want from the offsoul.

    Cleric healing Legendaries are actually very good, with Sentinel being the best imo. If you really want to feel frustrated over your Legendary options.. Mage is really rough. You're looking at 3/5 for Frostkeeper because you receive no major benefit from anything low in Chloromancer and your 3rd off soul (SC usually.)
    Last edited by Riane; 12-19-2016 at 11:19 AM.

  9. #9
    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    16pt can have 2 Legenadries max
    15 points for non-primalists, 7 for primalists.

  10. #10
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    15 points for non-primalists, 7 for primalists.
    Seeing as though I'm talking about 44+ builds, I wasn't including Primalist with the Legendary point allocations required since Primalist can only allocate 31 max. Figured that was really obvious. But in case you're curious, Dark, it's 8pts (not 7) for a 2nd Legendary, 24 for 3 Legendaries. http://i.imgur.com/oAmuinC.gifv

    But I'll amend my typo for 15 (was writing a guide that used 16pt subsoul lol), thanks for letting me know about it ;).
    Last edited by Riane; 12-19-2016 at 11:23 AM.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    44+ can have 3 Legendaries max
    15pt can have 2 Legenadries max
    0pt can have 1 Legendary max

    You do realize what you wrote out here is perfectly fine, right? That's how you're pretty much expected to spend your legendaries.

    You've got low tier legendaries (0pt) that are designed to be picked up while using that soul as an offsoul. If you have to go 15pt in for your 2nd Legendary, you're not going for a 61pt build but sacrificing it for whatever you need/want from the offsoul.

    Cleric healing Legendaries are actually very good, with Sentinel being the best imo. If you really want to feel frustrated over your Legendary options.. Mage is really rough. You're looking at 3/5 for Frostkeeper because you receive no major benefit from anything low in Chloromancer and your 3rd off soul (SC usually.)
    Sorry, but I think we're on two different pages right now. Everything I've said has been in the mindset of 61 Warden, with a focus on PVE content.

    I'm not saying that Warden legendaries are bad, in fact they all have a nice use in the soul depending on the content you do. My issue with Flood is that, if you want a max healing 61 point Warden build then it's designed to be one of the legendaries you take, along with Bosun's Blessing and Pools of Restoration. However the way the legendary works reduces its usefulness as it is unreliable in current content where you want a warden that can do a lot of healing.

    It's not a bad idea for the legendary to give Flood three stacks, but limiting it to 10 people makes it spotty to use in any content with 11 or more people, which is the only content we have right now where a warden is worthwhile.

  12. #12
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revamp Systems View Post
    It's not a bad idea for the legendary to give Flood three stacks, but limiting it to 10 people makes it spotty to use in any content with 11 or more people, which is the only content we have right now where a warden is worthwhile.
    I never argued that it was a bad idea. I just said maybe it's intended based on the fact that other legendaries (in other classes souls) had effects removed/changed for the ability to behave in a different way. If it's not intended to be 10 only, I'm sure it'll get fixed but considering it's a holiday weekend coming up and then NYE... Going to have to wait for next year.

    And the content currently available, it's not a major issue, it's not like pugs are wiping because HF isn't stacking to 3 on 20.
    Last edited by Riane; 12-19-2016 at 12:03 PM.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    I never argued that it was a bad idea. I just said maybe it's intended based on the fact that other legendaries (in other classes souls) had effects removed/changed for the ability to behave in a different way. If it's not intended to be 10 only, I'm sure it'll get fixed but considering it's a holiday weekend coming up and then NYE... Going to have to wait for next year.

    And the content currently available, it's not a major issue, it's not like pugs are wiping because HF isn't stacking to 3 on 20.
    At this point I'd just like a dev to say whether it's intended or not. I like playing my Warden, but with the way the ability functions it makes me not want to play Warden.

    If it's intended then I can accept the change, but if it's a bug then I'd like to have it confirmed as a bug so that I can adapt the soul to make it fun for me to play again.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts