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Thread: Greeds call inflicting self damage.

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default Greeds call inflicting self damage.

    EDIT: i meant to say aggressive avarice rather than greeds call.

    Has anyone figured out the circumstances that cause this to happen?
    Its pretty major and until i know what dauses it i cant use it
    Last edited by Horgrym; 10-23-2016 at 05:22 AM.
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    Greed's Call is supposed to damage you. I'm not sure what level you are at the moment but all of the Greed spells will damage you. The two Greed DoTs do a small amount and Greed's Call does a larger amount. (Aggressive Avarice, which consumes greed stacks, doesn't damage you)

    The idea behind the new defiler is that you damage yourself to damage enemies. Greed spells will damage you and proc a shield, and Rage spells will heal you for a small amount to make up the difference.

    The shield is Husk of Indifference, which is put on you automatically (after you talent into it) by Greed spells to give you some survivability while your Rage spells heal you.

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    I meant aggressive avarice sorry.
    Sometimes does a big chunk of self damage, like 25k.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revamp Systems View Post
    Greed's Call is supposed to damage you. I'm not sure what level you are at the moment but all of the Greed spells will damage you. The two Greed DoTs do a small amount and Greed's Call does a larger amount. (Aggressive Avarice, which consumes greed stacks, doesn't damage you)

    The idea behind the new defiler is that you damage yourself to damage enemies. Greed spells will damage you and proc a shield, and Rage spells will heal you for a small amount to make up the difference.

    The shield is Husk of Indifference, which is put on you automatically (after you talent into it) by Greed spells to give you some survivability while your Rage spells heal you.
    Is it "supposed" to hit you for 77k dmg?
    https://prancingturtle.com/Encounter...ty&filter=self
    Or in the more extreme case, 127k dmg:
    https://prancingturtle.com/Encounter...ty&filter=self

    It's getting affected by % dmg bonus modifiers, and even eats up effects like Fanaticism (and force crits as a result).

    Really annoying having to monitor HP+absorb levels to safely cast Greed's call, as if defiler doesn't have enough things to monitor already...

    Can any developer simply change Greed's call to work the same way as Miserly Affliction's self damage, which is working as intended (10% HP regardless of buffs)?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horgrym View Post
    I meant aggressive avarice sorry.
    Sometimes does a big chunk of self damage, like 25k.
    I could not replicate your issue with AA. Can you give more details as to what it is you're doing and when this is happening?

    Also a damage taken breakdown might help too.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by riwu View Post
    Is it "supposed" to hit you for 77k dmg?
    https://prancingturtle.com/Encounter...ty&filter=self
    Or in the more extreme case, 127k dmg:
    https://prancingturtle.com/Encounter...ty&filter=self

    It's getting affected by % dmg bonus modifiers, and even eats up effects like Fanaticism (and force crits as a result).

    The question was about whether Greed's Call was supposed to damage you, and it is.

    Everything you outlined is part of a bug that has been around for a while now and just hasn't been addressed. It would be nice if it was fixed, and I think at one point devs said they had found the problem (I could be wrong about that), but for now we just have to deal with it. It's annoying, but there are ways to work around it.

    I have no idea why Aggressive Avarice would cause self-damage though.

  7. #7
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    Ok really sorry for the confusion i have injected into this, AA is NOT at fault.
    I had macroed aa with the ability that adds 5 stacks of greed, and its the five stacks that are damaging me. I still dont think that can be right cos its hitting me for 20-30k, But its not AA.
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    Ok really sorry for the confusion i have injected into this, AA is NOT at fault.
    I had macroed aa with the ability that adds 5 stacks of greed, and its the five stacks that are damaging me. I still dont think that can be right cos its hitting me for 20-30k, But its not AA.
    Then it's Greed's Call and working as... well, currently programmed. Mystery solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horgrym View Post
    Ok really sorry for the confusion i have injected into this, AA is NOT at fault.
    I had macroed aa with the ability that adds 5 stacks of greed, and its the five stacks that are damaging me. I still dont think that can be right cos its hitting me for 20-30k, But its not AA.
    Greeds Call, and all the other damaging to self dots should just take off a flat amount and not be effected by outside sources. Unfortunately some fights buff your damage done and it has unfavorable interaction with those abilities. That will cause you to take more than the damage to life intended. In some cases it can one shot you. If they fix that they may not be able to allow the absorb shields to mitigate damage from the Dots. There are tons of bugs too where you don't necessarily have a raid buff and it does more damage than intended. In PvP there is no way to recuperate from that damage since Heals and absorbs are nerfed. Since spreading dots takes a long time and is not a simple toggle you can't even use that to help with the health % taken from dotting several players with grred dots from the rage dots. You could work around it but it is impractical.

    It is mechanically broken and viability of the spec is being overlooked. Being a payed soul you would think it and runeshaper would be looked at and fixed to have more viability than the non payed souls but they have even less overall viability where other free souls in other classes have more playability, viability, and synergy than cleric free and payed souls.

    They tried to band-aid fix it with the legendary which does not address the problem totally. This also means for the most part the soul would remain unplayable in many situations to those who bought it and opt out of the expansion. And to those who play the expansion they have a little more viability in PvP. It doesn't fix the problem with otuside sources buffing those abilities and defiler could have been built extremely better than what it is now considering the incredible lack of viable utility the class has with the additional utility from RS being bugged and souls not having good synergy I would look into rerolling to something like a rogue or warrior or mage. The legendary seems more like band aid fixes and you would actually need to remove all that wasted development to fix it properly..Cleric will just be really good tank and healers that can be traded with the other classes sort of like now where you don't need a puri/just even for HM CoA. Other classes are simply just better in terms of design and viability across all content and all souls. But even then most clerics I talk to don't care about dps and support as long as they are comparable in healing and tanking.

    I talked to about 6-7 different clerics who don't care about Pvp viability and majority play shaman because its ezmode(their legendaries seem bad too.) Bardborn still does more DPS than 61 oracle and that is another thing they don't care about either...since its a support that is still outclassed but viable when rogue is pulling top dps. So you would rather a cleric do the support over the rogue doing bard. And even if they made Cleric just OP dps they are faster to nerf than other classes and in most cases removing the synergy in the process like they did with dru/shaman, drushaper, rune/filer. Inquidefiler seems to be left alone... Maybe because other classes can compete with it? So if you take what they did and apply it for the long term they will certainly adjust OP specs for the class faster than they do for other classes (ranger/sab, nb/sin, sin/born, reaver and all the storm hybrids that plagued the early expansion going all the way into MoM.) If they actually fixed the playability of the souls and they did the slightly competitive dps it would at least feel like eventually they would adjust dps to normalize but they don't. They make niche spec, keep it niche, and nerf it making it nearly worthless to use in many cases for this class. Can't really say much about 1-4 button specs being able to compete with specs that require 12+ and 12 Kalerts to be as effective.. simply only it is not rewarding enough or those specs shouldn't even come near these unless they have the same amount of buttons, same RNG, same low movement and plagued with cast times and wathcing stacks to achieve best dps with especially low target switch capabilities as well etc.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 10-31-2016 at 07:48 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    Unfortunately some fights buff your damage done and it has unfavorable interaction with those abilities. That will cause you to take more than the damage to life intended. In some cases it can one shot you. If they fix that they may not be able to allow the absorb shields to mitigate damage from the Dots.
    Why does the self damage from Miserly Affliction/Greed's Corruption not get multiplied? The only difference between them and Greed's call is that they do damage so maybe the self damage is considered as 'secondary effect'. So all Trion has to do is to label the Greed's call's self damage the same way as Miserly Affliction (if necessary, make Greed's call do 0 or 1 damage to target/aoe)
    Last edited by riwu; 11-01-2016 at 02:18 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by riwu View Post
    Why does the self damage from Miserly Affliction/Greed's Corruption not get multiplied?
    It doesn't multiply but it has poor interaction with some outside sources. For instance, you can actually proc vengeful return on yourself with the Dots. Although that fix you mentioned can help, it is still "a cheap way" of fixing a problem that should not exist at all. There is just too many things that have to account for now with such a mechanic and it should be taken out of every spec that has it and never be used in any class. There is many things the class is missing in comparison to other classes that can fill the blanks and produce better synergy and utility.

    I have been looking over the cleric class and yes some of the legendary are broken but I am not looking at the dps I am looking at the usefulness of a class. How good are they going to be in overall content, their playability and how they fit into the meta. Trion is known for making classes follow a rollercoaster balancing. However at the time this sort of technique was tolerated. Then SL promised us to bring the player and not the class and they failed to provide that with all classes coming out imbalanced and needing tweaking for an entirec 2 expansions. Rogue never was interchangeable with Puri, Liberator not with Chloro etc for most part of PvE for example. BM was almost useless for 2 expansions in most content. Bard and Oracle kept changing spot and in end I think Bard win in most of this expansion with Oracle in SL. That is not good. That is not right. That is why so many people leave. They made it incredibly hard to multiclass because the sky rocket in grinding and the classes still follow this up and down balancing from the class devs. It may be worse than SL or Vanilla Rift!? I don't see them changing their view point for SFP with the legendaries either. Classes still remain to have their advantages in some cases. Planar fragments don't really help much with multiclassing. There is also some other little inconveniences where with warrior for instance, you want both two hander and DW since they have different dps outputs now. It is another factor to account for so it is NOT EASIER to multiclass no matter how they look at it. It is more difficult than NT and SL. Almost really silly at this point. Anyway all and all, starting with the roots and skeleton of the the cleric trees they got it wrong in some cases. That is where all the fixes should be not on the legendaries..imo.

    I feel, in my opinion, you are paying to play for an expansion that is less playable than even the first Vanilla expansion, well at least after they introduced vouchers and somethings that allowed you to use rep stuff on alts that they removed from the game because of twink abuse which is no longer in the game. Even if you consider the minions. That made it far easier to get some of the basic materials which in some sense stunned playability. World is much more empty now.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 11-01-2016 at 05:44 AM.

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