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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Druid 3.7 Feedback Thread

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Druid 3.7 Feedback Thread

    Hi all, i thought that the Druid updates on PTS thread was not up to date anymore, becaouse now the changes are LIVE. so i created a new thread to gather all the feedbacks and bring our feelings upon the spotlight for the devs.

    below, my personal feedback.

  2. #2
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    after some tries i noticed that 61 druid is more or less 8-10% behind 44 druid, which is in my parses about 20% behind shaman, now that shaman got improved. so, after all, i cannot find a single use of the new druid soul.

    as other ppl stated, going 61 druid and using the seer in conduit mode for the disconnects is not worth, as you would lose the 15% buff from satyr in conduit mode, and the loss not worths the gain. if this was intended as the strength of the new soul, then it's a failure.

    moreover, if i consequentially have to play full melee, shaman is more than ever the only way.

    btw some QoL could be:
    - if u want the conduit mechanic being somehow effective, we should have the fast summon ability OGCD like now but with no more than 5-10 sec CD, so it would be efficient e.g. to have the satyr, then fast summon seer, conduit, disconnect for the time needed that usually last some seconds, fast summon satyr again, conduit
    - Nature's Edict: totally useless, remove. 2 stacks consuming mechanics is pretty horrible, only Nature's Censure shall consume the natural force stacks (then re-tune something to compensate nature's edit debuff on taget)
    - again, removing the Nature's Weakness debuff on the target shall improve slightly the target swapping - i remember you that we have already 2 dots to apply and mantain

    in addiction to this, we lost completely the self heals that gave some meanings to the soul. btw have you tried inserting peace of the forest in your rotation? if you are not behind a raid healer, 61pts build brings you to death! at least with 24pt shaman you are self healed by glory of the chosen...

    think to this now:
    - shaman does much more dps and has a decent self heal and mana rec.
    - druid does significantly less dps and has no self heals and mana rec kills you



    imho, finally:
    - shaman should be - like now - the more complex top melee dps soul with the more you min/max it, the more you gain dps
    - druid should be the entry level melee dps soul, with an easier rotation than shaman (eventually one button or similar) where beginners / lazy players could still achieve decent dps (let's say 10-15% less than shaman)
    Last edited by Mystifal; 07-19-2016 at 05:38 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Simple solution

    Its easy. Clearly druid is sucking big ones even after the rework, so remove it. Shaman remains the melee dps spec. Rework Defilier into a dps soul as has been mentioned many many times in the past.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker Zojah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timidrage View Post
    Its easy. Clearly druid is sucking big ones even after the rework, so remove it. Shaman remains the melee dps spec. Rework Defilier into a dps soul as has been mentioned many many times in the past.
    Druid could be reworked into another healing soul

    More AOE healing possibilities for Cleric would be awesome.

    No doubt, in the next patch, defiler will be reworked to DPS

  5. #5
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    hope things will change in some ways. being as is, i'm very sorry that Orren and the team spent, and lost, many of their precious time, resulting in a useless job

    looking at the elementalist, that is now a great, easy 1 button soul with good numbers, i would think that probably this was also the effort for the druid, but unfortunately something is still incomplete or wrong. but with some adjustments it could become an easy to play 1 button for entry level / lazy players, reaching the goal.
    Last edited by Mystifal; 07-21-2016 at 10:46 AM.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Nickalispicalis's Avatar
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    Except either the class lead has left TRION or he is on vacation, or who knows what. The sad reality is, I think the Druid rework is finished. It is worst to play now then it was before the re-work.

    The best thing they could do would be to delete these changes and revert back to the old Druid. All that was ever needed was minor twerks and changes., ie; Scaling the pet, deleting thorns, increasing the damage on crushing force.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickalispicalis View Post
    Except either the class lead has left TRION or he is on vacation, or who knows what.
    There is no such thing.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Nickalispicalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauumhaft View Post
    There is no such thing.
    What do you mean ? I haven't seen a post from him since June 9th. To his credit he look pretty engaged with job despite leaving Druid looking like a piece of poo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickalispicalis View Post
    What do you mean ? I haven't seen a post from him since June 9th. To his credit he look pretty engaged with job despite leaving Druid looking like a piece of poo.
    No such thing as a class lead. The system team handles all class changes as a team now.

    That said I believe he went on vacation (something about that was mentioned in the warlord/berserker stream). The timing of this was unfortunate as Druid is quite broken on live.

  10. #10
    Champion Eilauria's Avatar
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    Completely useless now. Once one of the best solo specs it is now useless.
    All the changes should be reverted.

  11. #11
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    Calling for all changes to be reverted is probably a waste of time, and not very constructive.

    The problem with Druid is that it was just not finished on the PTS when it was released.
    It has gained quite a bit of ST DPS, just not enough. But the loss of aoe and survivability has hit its soloing ability for low geared/afk players hard.

    I suggest the following changes, in addition to tuning up the ST DPS overall.
    • Remove Thorns.
      It serves no real purpose in the spec.
      Replace it with: Aid of the Forest
      This will increase survivability in open world content, and as it will not work while conduit is active anyway, it wont affect the dungeon/raid ability in a way that would leave it to strong.
    • Change Fae Distortion.
      Makes no sense to leave it like it is now, only affecting 2 pets.
      Change to: Makes all the damage/healing your pets deal to aoe to X targets. Reduces their damage/healing by X%.
      This will give back some of the aoe potential lost from the buffs, without adding back more of the unnecessary buffs, once again wont work while conduit is active anyway, but might actually be worth turning conduit off in heave aoe situations.
    • Remove Nature's Edict
      It is annoying for target swapping, and feels like bad design.
      Replace it with: A hard hitting normal ability
      With the loss of MB from the rotation, and the change to Fae Mimicry, the available abilities to use with FM are now down. Having another ability to juggle on a short/medium cd (5-9 sec) would make the spec more interesting, and more forgiving for mistakes when it comes to Fae Mimicry. The damage should be among our top hitters, or even out new top damage ability. The damage bonus from Edict should be worked into the spec either trough talents or in a different way, or even a combination
    • Change Nature's Censure
      Having a off-gcd ability that increases damage based on stacks, but is still just better to spam on cd is not good.
      Change to: Reduce the damage while increasing the stacks bonus by a lot. And please stop adding damage amplifying effects that only affect the base damage of an ability.
      This will make it a more skill based ability you cant just have in your macro, note that the damage per stack should also be increased, but the increase on 5 stacks should be immense.
    • Summons/Conduit:
      Personally I quite like the idea of conduit, while some others see it as a way to remove pet specs, I see it as a way to preserve pet specs for open world/soloing/leveling etc, while still allowing these souls to function properly in group based content.
      Changes: Reduce the cd of Rapid Summon to 15 seconds while conduit is active
      Yes this is a radical suggestion. But reducing it massively will make it far more usable. It will make the range increase from the Seer a viable option when you have to go ranged, still not as good as Paragon/Harb has access to, but a lot closer. The way I see this working in regards to "while Conduit is active" is that it decides its cd based on whether or not conduit is active at the point of casting. The duration of the buff should be reduced to avoid just macro spamming it.
    • Conduit:
      On a side not from the last suggestion, make Conduit a toggle.

    And make Punishing Strike work with Fae Mimicry.
    Last edited by Pretoi; 07-24-2016 at 04:56 AM.

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretoi View Post
    Calling for all changes to be reverted is probably a waste of time, and not very constructive.
    I think is would be best to revert the changes as nothing good has come from this update and they haven't fixed any of the real problems that were completely ignored during the update.

    The problem with Druid is that it was just not finished on the PTS when it was released.
    It has gained quite a bit of ST DPS, just not enough. But the loss of aoe and survivability has hit its soloing ability for low geared/afk players hard.
    The problem was raiders wanted a new dps spec and didn't care about anything else, even though the Devs said Druid will not be doing same dps than Shaman, and to me that says Druid was never meant for raiding.

    Everyone just wanted more and more dps, regardless of this fact, and didn't care about the gameplay.

    I voiced my thoughts on page 2 about how bad these changes were; they were completely ignored.

    • Remove Thorns.
      It serves no real purpose in the spec.
      Replace it with: Aid of the Forest
      This will increase survivability in open world content, and as it will not work while conduit is active anyway, it wont affect the dungeon/raid ability in a way that would leave it to strong.
    • Change Fae Distortion.
      Makes no sense to leave it like it is now, only affecting 2 pets.
      Change to: Makes all the damage/healing your pets deal to aoe to X targets. Reduces their damage/healing by X%.
      This will give back some of the aoe potential lost from the buffs, without adding back more of the unnecessary buffs, once again wont work while conduit is active anyway, but might actually be worth turning conduit off in heave aoe situations.
    • Conduit:
      On a side not from the last suggestion, make Conduit a toggle.
    Then on page 6 on how to keep Druid the way it was even with the changes; they were completely ignored, which is pretty much a repeat of what you just said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    I think is would be best to revert the changes as nothing good has come from this update and they haven't fixed any of the real problems that were completely ignored during the update.



    The problem was raiders wanted a new dps spec and didn't care about anything else, even though the Devs said Druid will not be doing same dps than Shaman, and to me that says Druid was never meant for raiding.

    Everyone just wanted more and more dps, regardless of this fact, and didn't care about the gameplay.

    I voiced my thoughts on page 2 about how bad these changes were; they were completely ignored.



    Then on page 6 on how to keep Druid the way it was even with the changes; they were completely ignored, which is pretty much a repeat of what you just said.
    They did in fact state that they did intend Druid to be raid viable, and balanced in a way that makes both shaman and druid optimal in different situations.Source
    And most of the feedback coming from people raiding will be focused on what they enjoy doing.

    Personally I never use Druid for soloing, as I can kill more, faster and more reliably with other specs. So expecting me or people like me, to focus on the soloing part of a soul rework that has the goal to make it more raid viable is not really fair.

    That said, I did state in that thread as well, that removing Aid of the Forest was unwarranted and should be reconsidered.

    Now calling for a soul rework to be canceled and brought back to exactly the way it was, despite your wish that it would, is not helping.

    You made some good suggestions in that thread, some of which I agree so much with that I borrowed them in some form to make these suggestions. Building on these suggestions, it is very possible that we end up a place everyone can be happy with.

    And as I stated, there is no reason why Druid cant work well in both solo play and raids. Using the Conduit buff to determine what side of that line you are on is both possible and (in my opinion) desirable.
    Last edited by Pretoi; 07-24-2016 at 09:27 AM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    Druid has mana issues. It starves too fast. You shouldn't have to rely on off soul healing to function or using your absorb shield on cd just to counter your own mana regen ability from draining your life and eventually killing you in some circumstances.

    Still feels somewhat clunky. Feels worse than other 1.5 sec. gcd specs. Utility never came down in the tree so even with some viable hybrids it has nothing to offer unique to alll the popular gameplay such as pvp and pve.

    61 does offer a full range option but the damage reduction trade off isn't worth it. I suppose in heavy movement fights it probably will do better than the current turret specs clerics have for range so may perform well in niche fights if you have problems playing melee shaman or need to go range without a purge.

    On demand burst is far more effective with other classes and although this is suppose to be sustained spec it still can climb or fall after 5-6mins. meaning that there is an issue in ramping up and during heavy target switching. That issue entirely effects gameplay in an unhealthy way leaving the spec prone to dips that are hard to recover from and general human error. It is already pretty bad with shaman. RB is a perfect example of good sustain and even with relatively small mistakes you can sustain the rsame dps because with intermittent burst and low cds on heavy dps gaining abilities its able to recover much faster and more reliably than this spec.

    It still can fair well in solo pve world content however because of the game play mechanics I found it more difficult to successfully complete a simple PTW rift solo then the prior druid. With the ramp up to dps, poor target switching and forced to improvise to keep your pet alive and yourself as well as loss in AoE as a result of conduit etc. I would say it needs some more work. Hopefully the soul won't take 2 years of revamps to get to the playability and identity other souls have.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 07-25-2016 at 12:57 PM.

  15. #15
    Soulwalker Silfiel's Avatar
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    Hello,

    I've been testing my new cleric druid foe several days and my first impressión was horrible. Extremely horrible. Trion has simply destroyed the cleric druid. It turn this character into something impossible to play.

    I can tell you my experiences since this re-work is that counts as a feedback:
    First, you introduce Natural Force which doesnt worth a coin in itself and must be combined with Nature Edict's and Nature censure. It is extremely difficult to keep up those two abilities while also performing a clunky rotation.

    This cleric druid needs a lot of time to get a decent dps and when the rotation is broken, it is impossible to get more than 30 k (in dungeons and instant adventures ). Sometimes even less than that. With my old cleric druid it was easy to get 44-45 and keep that dps.

    In fact I needed like 8-10 seconds to get a a decent dps. I repeat, I needed 8-10 seconds to reach a burst of no more than 30k in a Elite practice pole. With my old cleric druid I needed no more than 5 seconds.

    Removing Aid of the Forest is one of the biggest mistakes in my opinion. The cleric druid was sasid to be a "solo" fighter so one of the strongest points was their survivability. Now, that ability doesn't exists anymore. Yesterday I was about to be killed by two normal 65 with my Satyr Destroyer active. With my old cleric druid this was impossible. I could just let my Satyr kill both of the mobs without doing anything

    Also I really cried when you, Trion, removed Spirit of Asphodel and Spirit of Upheavel. Specially, this last one, becasuse this ability combined with Wild Strike gave my aoe between 40k and 80 k damage. Now i cannot get more than 30 k. You destroyed the aoe posibilities of the cleric druid.

    Furthermore, a passive ability like Spirit of Asphodel made cleric druid easier to handle (on of the strongest points) while getting a decent dps. Now, the new abilities with their messy global cooldown times makes a lot of more difficul to use cleric druid and makes rotations.

    My conclusion, as i said aboce, is that you destroyed cleric druid. The worst thing is that even if you revert all of the changes, cleric druid will be nerfed becasuse you will also need to revert the changes in Shaman to make the cleric druid to be a decent character again. Im afraid that is impossible, so I assume cleric druid never will be a good character anymore.

    Im not going to talk about the pets because you just simply make another mess giving us an ability we havent asked and that is useless instead of repairing them.

    Of course Im not going to tell what you do. You make this mess, you have to solve it. Im not going to make your work. People told you the problems of cleric druid time ago and you just simply ignore them to show us this swindle of cleric druid.

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