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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: COA Cleric loot versus shaman changes

  1. #1
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    Default COA Cleric loot versus shaman changes

    I didnīt know if i should post this in the raid or the cleric section. Anyhow i donīt understand why some COA loot got SCH on the items. Well maybe if Druid stays the way it is nobody plays shaman anymore

    Anyhow i think there should be either way the loot be changed from SCH to SP or CP or the shaman should loose its 100% critchance on MB and instead increase the damage from courage of the panther, which is currently 10% (was 14% before) to around 16% till 17%.

  2. #2
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    Agree!

    This is not just a problem with MB force crit, but also with the massive increase we get from RoTN, and has been a problem way longer then MB has been force criting. I think a talent deep in shaman to convert sc->sp would be the best solution.

    This is also to a lesser degree a problem with inq, as your beams are generally force crit anyway.

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    SC/PC is always inferior in any class/spec.
    There should be a SP/CP equivalent in latter bosses or higher difficulty though?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wowo View Post
    SC/PC is always inferior in any class/spec.
    There should be a SP/CP equivalent in latter bosses or higher difficulty though?
    It is inferior for all classes, but it is worse for shaman then for any other spec.

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    Force crit Massive Blow was a bad choice in the first place in my opinion. There are so many other tweaks they could have made to improve the overall DPS of the soul, and by doing this it basically completely invalidates an entire stat from being viable. I mean SC isn't terrible because it still increases the crit rate of Punishing, but overall SC was already a weak stat for Shamans and this only made the problem worse.

    But I agree that if they were going to make the change they did, at least put SC on less of the gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by catpaw View Post
    Force crit Massive Blow was a bad choice in the first place in my opinion. There are so many other tweaks they could have made to improve the overall DPS of the soul, and by doing this it basically completely invalidates an entire stat from being viable. I mean SC isn't terrible because it still increases the crit rate of Punishing, but overall SC was already a weak stat for Shamans and this only made the problem worse.

    But I agree that if they were going to make the change they did, at least put SC on less of the gear.
    The best itemization for the game is SP and CP. SC is purely there for the purpose of making people change to SP or CP. This creates trade and cash for the company. Also, you have to consider a few things as well. If they really wanted to make SC good they can just make the mastery Steady Assault grant 9 or 10%% damage instead of just 7% which is not worth the trade off at all.

    To fix shaman they can add in ability similar to paragon where crit damage is increased from a talent so at least it still has good scaling. Take a look at Force of Will in Paragon.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 06-05-2016 at 04:29 PM.

  7.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #7
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    I spent a good portion of the day messing around with ways to have Spell Crit increase the damage of Massive Blow. I don't have changes ready for tomorrow but I see some progress here.

    Sorry for vague-booking, but I agree that this is a problem, and I'm looking into a fix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    The best itemization for the game is SP and CP. SC is purely there for the purpose of making people change to SP or CP. This creates trade and cash for the company. Also, you have to consider a few things as well. If they really wanted to make SC good they can just make the mastery Steady Assault grant 9 or 10%% damage instead of just 7% which is not worth the trade off at all.

    To fix shaman they can add in ability similar to paragon where crit damage is increased from a talent so at least it still has good scaling. Take a look at Force of Will in Paragon.
    Yes but there is a difference between a stat being subpar or it being so utterly bad that even a tier higher loot is a downgrade if it has spellcrit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dev_Orren View Post
    I spent a good portion of the day messing around with ways to have Spell Crit increase the damage of Massive Blow. I don't have changes ready for tomorrow but I see some progress here.

    Sorry for vague-booking, but I agree that this is a problem, and I'm looking into a fix.
    I already like Orren, he has the correct approach on the "shamans cant scale of spellcrit cos of having so many forced crits" problem. Last time when shaman fell behind cos of the lack of scaling they tried to help it giving us even more forced crit (100% crit mb). They were afraid of the "pvp balance" i guess, but it just made the issue worse. As long as "mainstat" is party spellcrit, you either bandage every tier or solve the core of the problem.

    PS: Inq has the same issues with spellcrit, the cd block is pretty much guaranteed crit there too, without any scrit on gear.

  9.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #9
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    OK an adjustment to Massive Blow will be on PTS tomorrow. (Wednesday 6/8/1 - I'll try to come back and edit this post when the update is pushed up.)

    This adjustment adds some extra damage to Massive Blow. Vagueness intentional because the exact amount of damage added goes through a lot of modifiers based on individual gear, etc. I want to see this effect on parses before making further changes.

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    Does this mean force crit on MB will get removed? Honestly i had a critchance of 92% till 95% inside raids before the change already so finding another way to get shaman dps on the same level as melee specs from other classes would be awesome. To bad im on a vacation untill sunday but i will ask my guildmates to do some parsing on PTS to see how this goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spiegelspeakgel View Post
    Does this mean force crit on MB will get removed? Honestly i had a critchance of 92% till 95% inside raids before the change already so finding another way to get shaman dps on the same level as melee specs from other classes would be awesome. To bad im on a vacation untill sunday but i will ask my guildmates to do some parsing on PTS to see how this goes.
    it becomes "less" of a problem with a higher tier of gear but i have fond memories of using crit pots during rage of the north on sicaron (with fw/ps/rotn/lh/sanction/cdblock) so that my second massive blow would crit inside of deep freeze, because sometimes it wouldn't and the rage that would follow in teamspeak heh
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    Well i might have to mention that i had around 9600 SCH hit at that time. Now all my gear is SP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dev_Orren View Post
    OK an adjustment to Massive Blow will be on PTS tomorrow. (Wednesday 6/8/1 - I'll try to come back and edit this post when the update is pushed up.)

    This adjustment adds some extra damage to Massive Blow. Vagueness intentional because the exact amount of damage added goes through a lot of modifiers based on individual gear, etc. I want to see this effect on parses before making further changes.
    Please keep in mind that when MB got changed to 100% critchance that at the same time courage of the panther got reduced by 4% from 14% to 10%. Honestly i think a way better fix would have been, if MB would have stayed untouched and instead the amount of damage from courage of the panther would have been increased - to something around 16% till 17% (has to be tested).

    Anyway thanks for paying attention - shaman feels so broken atm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spiegelspeakgel View Post
    Anyway thanks for paying attention - shaman feels so broken atm.
    it does feel kinda broken, yeah. you get this feeling like you're doing everything you can, sometimes perfectly or almost perfectly, but it just isn't enough, and then you make a mistake, or get a lag spike which causes you to fall behind and rip in pieces any hopes of a half-decent parse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiegelspeakgel View Post
    Please keep in mind that when MB got changed to 100% critchance that at the same time courage of the panther got reduced by 4% from 14% to 10%. Honestly i think a way better fix would have been, if MB would have stayed untouched and instead the amount of damage from courage of the panther would have been increased - to something around 16% till 17% (has to be tested).

    Anyway thanks for paying attention - shaman feels so broken atm.
    Imo removing 100% from MB will have a serious impact on Shaman effectiveness in PvP. It's already difficult enough to try to keep up with other callings. We need some hard hitting abilities, otherwise it'll be the same old "in-out-go afk 1min until CDs are ready" all over again, unless ofc we'd finally get some nice utility abilities (or you're a fan of RNG).

    Personally I don't see what's wrong with having a 100% MB critchance, everyone keeps saying it's broken and messes up parses, but that doesn't make sense, we do more dps than before the change after all (if you remove the 100% critchance, not only will you be reliant on the absence of lagspikes, but also on RNG, I cannot see how this is supposed to be an improvement). The only reason Shaman feels broken is because of the dependency of SH and Vex, which makes the playstyle feel clunky. V:
    Last edited by Fia; 06-07-2016 at 08:50 PM.
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