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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Warden Changes on PTS

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    Default Warden Changes on PTS

    Hi all,

    PTS has been updated, and includes upcoming changes to the Warden soul! Here's a list of what has changed:

    Masteries:
    Faith's Reward - Now also causes Overflowing Renewal to heal its primary target for an additional 100% of its healing over 10 seconds.


    Abilities:

    Orbs of the Tide - now triggers on any incoming damage, removing several restrictions of ability types that would not trigger these.

    Orbs of the Stream - now triggers on any incoming damage, removing several restrictions of ability types that would not trigger these.

    Bosun's Blessing - now increasese damage dealt by 30%, up from 10%.

    Cascade - generates mana equal to 30% of the caster's mana, up from 15%.

    Talents:

    Boundless - Now reduces mana cost by 2% per point, instead of increasing damage by 1% per point

    Hidden Reserves - Now increases damage done and healing done with Water abilities by 5% per point, up from 3% per point
    Please have a look-see, and give feedback here on the changes and/or other things you'd like to see. Thanks!
    Last edited by Red Hawk; 03-17-2016 at 06:49 PM.

  2. #2
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    Those look good, and its great to see some warden love.

    As an additional QoL change could the length of oversaturation be increased significantly, maybe to a minute. At present the damage on it is basically not worth the cast a lot of the time, and although its a nice idea to damage through healing warden unlike sent and puri has good damaging abilities of its own to fill with. Putting this on a longer timer would allow it to aid with doing damage during burst healing phases etc.#

    Just my 2 cents
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    Edit: Nonsense on my side
    Last edited by Trauumhaft; 03-18-2016 at 01:24 AM.

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    Rift Disciple thelarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunrar View Post
    As an additional QoL change could the length of oversaturation be increased significantly,
    Could increase the duration of Dangers of the Deep too, and/or decrease stacks, or make it proc of healing. Something like 30 sec or just 3 stacks. Proc-ing off healing might trivialize managing it to much, but would help with those odd times you get stuck in combat
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelarry View Post
    Could increase the duration of Dangers of the Deep too, and/or decrease stacks, or make it proc of healing. Something like 30 sec or just 3 stacks. Proc-ing off healing might trivialize managing it to much, but would help with those odd times you get stuck in combat
    this would be nice for pvp because of how you're put into combat at odd times, sometimes with no one around, so no way to keep stacks up. having to use five 1.5s gcd's before you can expect to be at full output again in situations like these is a little absurd and i don't think any other healer has to deal with these kinds of mechanics.
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    Telaran havenslight's Avatar
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    Default These changes are awesome.

    As a raid healer in pvp and pve at times I must say this is is greaWarden needed some love and we just got it! More Mana regin and Mana reduction is awesome. Thank you Thank you!
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  7. #7
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    I dont feel warden being behind in pvp, maybe high skillcapped but i know ppl overperforming with live warden already (covenant + hot warden, not aoe spam)

    Thing i dont understand is the 20 man meta. PC/WG are just way too beneficial for enrage checks and to make warden viable on bosses with less than 3 aoe heals you would need it to make insane dps or have other extras, but then it would be broken for 10man/pvp. And this is before chloro buffs, after that the situation will look even worse.
    Last edited by Tetmes; 03-19-2016 at 11:40 AM.

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    Ascendant Jeremiahcp's Avatar
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    To be honest, when it comes to PvP, I don't really feel that mana is warden's biggest issue. The mana is manageable as long as you make sure to use your skills correctly. I also have no problem with Dangers of the Deep, while yes it can drop at times, it is easy enough to build back up, and you can still out put AE heals while doing so.

    In PvP warden's main issues, are ST healing and survivability. I understand warden is a AE healing spec, but it still has some ST healing capabilities, which are designed around the idea of keeping Healing spray and 4 stacks of Soothing Stream on the target you wish to ST heal. That may work in PvE, but in the WF, that approach does not always work well (as by the time you get the hots rolling your target is dead), and without the 5 hots rolling warden's ST healing strength is greatly diminished.

    Now I can keep the 5 hots rolling on myself, and I don't even mind working them around CC, but even with all the hots rolling and Orbs of the Steam, warden in the WF is a paper thin spec. It really does not take a lot of DPS to down a warden that is not being healed by another healer. They also are very vulnerable to CC, as they have no additional breaks or resistance to it, all they get is break free. You can take cab, for Dark Passage, but you lose HPS, and it ports you forward, which is not always the best idea (now it if could port you backwards that might work better).

    *Edit, Sorry I missed the changes to the Faith's Reward, that might actually help relieve warden's difficulties with ST healing, but without running it in a WF, I can't really tell. It should work to help keep me alive, since I can also keep all the hots rolling on me as well.
    Last edited by Jeremiahcp; 03-21-2016 at 08:27 AM.

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    The spec that I feel has mana issues is sentinel (which is pretty much a PvP healing soul). Sentinel is great for PvP, but it eats mana like crazy. I get the impression that sentinel was designed with a tier healing system in mind, and using these different levels of heals was how you also managed your mana. However, whatever was intended of sentinel, it is now a healing spec which is mainly used for PvP, as it can't compete with Purifier for ST heals in PvE.

    Which is fine, and I think having sentinel more PvP focused makes a lot of sense, however ST healing in PvP is not so much about constant HPS, but the ability to handle focus fire and huge burst spikes. Which sentinel can do, until it runs out of mana, and then you have a choice, you can either spam out things like Healing Flare or cleanse healing off of your natural mana regen, or you can use Reverent Supplication to regen mana while everyone around you dies.

    The problem is that to keep up with the damage you need to chain your strongest ST heal, Crucial Invocation, which also just destroys your mana pool, and unlike warden, sentinel has no instant cast mana regen abilities. Although I suppose with your purposed changes to Boundless, that might actually help sentinel a bit, but the problem, as I see, is once sentinel is drained, they are a dead fish until they get their mana back. Often I have to make a choice between regening my mana or healing people.

    I would like to see you run with this idea of sentinel as a PvP healing soul a bit more, and rework some of it's abilities that are not being utilized, with that in mind. Like the skill Flash of Radiance, if you turned that into an AE stun, it might be useful to slow incoming damage enough for the sentinel to gather a bit of mana. I think making that a stun, and the changes to Boundless, would help sentinels with their mana management.
    Last edited by Jeremiahcp; 03-21-2016 at 09:44 AM.

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    Rift Master EverydayAnomaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiahcp View Post
    The spec that I feel has mana issues is sentinel (which is pretty much a PvP healing soul). Sentinel is great for PvP, but it eats mana like crazy. I get the impression that sentinel was designed with a tier healing system in mind, and using these different levels of heals was how you also managed your mana. However, whatever was intended of sentinel, it is now a healing spec which is mainly used for PvP, as it can't compete with Purifier for ST heals in PvE.

    Which is fine, and I think having sentinel more PvP focused makes a lot of sense, however ST healing in PvP is not so much about constant HPS, but the ability to handle focus fire and huge burst spikes. Which sentinel can do, until it runs out of mana, and then you have a choice, you can either spam out things like Healing Flare or cleanse healing off of your natural mana regen, or you can use Reverent Supplication to regen mana while everyone around you dies.

    The problem is that to keep up with the damage you need to chain your strongest ST heal, Crucial Invocation, which also just destroys your mana pool, and unlike warden, sentinel has no instant cast mana regen abilities. Although I suppose with your purposed changes to Boundless, that might actually help sentinel a bit, but the problem, as I see, is once sentinel is drained, they are a dead fish until they get their mana back. Often I have to make a choice between regening my mana or healing people.

    I would like to see you run with this idea of sentinel as a PvP healing soul a bit more, and rework some of it's abilities that are not being unitize with that in mind. Like the skill Flash of Radiance, if you turned that into an AE stun, it might be useful to slow incoming damage enough for the sentinel to gather a bit of mana. I think making that a stun, and the changes to Boundless, would help sentinels with their mana management.
    When i first saw the Warden changes i though about Sent. I hope the mana reduction abilities are low enough in the tree to help out a Sent build. I might consider dropping Oracle as an off-soul if that is the case. I just don't want to lose HPS output to do it, though. So, here's hoping.

    The only issue i have with Sent and mana management is that Rogues and Primalists don't have to worry about that, yet still push out HPS equal to or greater than 58+ Sentinel ST heals. That is the real problem. That has got to be addressed but Trion refuses to do it even after a few years of people proving the problem exists.

    Don't mean to hijack the Warden thread but my Sentinel is the first thing i thought of when i saw these changes.
    Last edited by EverydayAnomaly; 03-21-2016 at 08:20 AM.
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    i already use warden in my sent build for healing spray, so the change is nice. i don't really feel like sent needs a whole lot of help when it comes to mana usage, if we could use crucials as much as healing invocations the soul's output would be more than a little overtuned.

    managing mana as sent balances out it's output in pvp, and the same goes for puri due to ward of scorching and how good it is in pvp.
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    I don't think anyone is really suggesting the ability to spam Crucial Invocation as much as Healing Invocation, but when you need to save a life that is being focused then you need to slam out a chain of Crucial Invocations, which leaves you completely drained, and in a state of recovery while everyone is still dying. This is more about maintaining minimal heals needed to keep people alive, without having to stop fighting altogether just to stand there and regen mana. I don't think anyone is suggesting you should be able to spam Crucial Invocation without restraint.

    I think you could do this a few ways, you could rework Flash of Radiance into a better CC skill, as it is now, the range is limited, it is limited in its function as CC, and it breaks on damage (which in PvP is almost an auto-break). You might also want to consider lowering the cast time on Subtle Invocation, so that when you spec 5 of 5 in Swift Plea it becomes an instant cast. Which would allow you to spam it a lot faster and while moving (I currently use Healing Flare for this purpose). The lower cost of this spell would allow you to output the needed heals, until you can find a break in battle to get a bit of mana. I feel if you strengthen the use of some of sent's under used skills (like Subtle Healing), then it would help reduce a dependence on stronger heals.

    As far as puri goes, I don't think that spec has any mana issues at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiahcp View Post
    As far as puri goes, I don't think that spec has any mana issues at all.
    puri has mana issues if played right in pvp with faith's reward+casting scorching a lot, but not many people do this, and most puris i see actually still use diversify in pvp.

    but if you do, the output is really good

    subtle being instant would definitely be a positive change since right now, there is really no reason to have it on your bar at all, but again i worry that subtle+divine favor would be "too much" raw output for geared players.
    Last edited by ecru; 03-22-2016 at 11:11 PM.
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    Champion of Telara Wackywoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    Hi all,

    PTS has been updated, and includes upcoming changes to the Warden soul! Here's a list of what has changed:



    Please have a look-see, and give feedback here on the changes and/or other things you'd like to see. Thanks!

    I'd like to see something like..:

    Casting Call of the Depths on the target applies all other known Warden DoTs to the target.

    Warden only has 3 Dots. So it isn't a huge dps increase. It would certainly be nice to not have to apply each DoT manually though.
    Last edited by Wackywoo; 03-23-2016 at 01:07 AM.
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    I'd like to see a raid damage cooldown ala Wild Growth/Power Core. Maybe rework Downpour into this style an ability.

    Also Overflowing Renewal HoT is not working on PTS currently. Tried on healing dummy and on myself and swapped off Faith's Reward and back to it to see if it would reset.
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