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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: @Red Hawk: Pain Transmission changes a nerf to Defiler DPS ceiling, why?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    The change to Pain Transmission was due to it being impossible to use on a number of bosses due to how AoEs work in our game. AoEs measure "center to center" of hitbox for hit computation, while ranged abilities measure "edge to edge" (those are tabletop war game terms but hopefully they're self-explanatory in this context). This will be super important on at least one boss this tier, which is why this change was made now.

    By no means was Defiler overperforming before in terms of DPS, so we'll be adjusting DPS back up (and mana costs down) very soon. I'm going to try to get that in next week's hotfix.
    Can we do away with the damage split between targets? Why can't it just hit up to 4 around the target similar to how PT damage scaled up with more targets.

    As is, you are forced to split damage between adds near the boss even if you don't want.

  2.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lappdancer View Post
    Can we do away with the damage split between targets? Why can't it just hit up to 4 around the target similar to how PT damage scaled up with more targets.

    As is, you are forced to split damage between adds near the boss even if you don't want.
    The split between targets allows me to set the ability up to calculate its damage as single-target. If the ability deals AoE damage, it has to go through the AoE damage formula, which will cause it to deal less damage to a single target (like a boss with no adds).
    Jeff "Red Hawk" Hamilton
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    By no means was Defiler overperforming before in terms of DPS, so we'll be adjusting DPS back up (and mana costs down) very soon. I'm going to try to get that in next week's hotfix.
    forgot to respond to this. i think halving the mana usage of pain transmission, siphon vitality, marrow harvest, and somatic desecration would go a long way towards making defiler less mana starved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    The split between targets allows me to set the ability up to calculate its damage as single-target. If the ability deals AoE damage, it has to go through the AoE damage formula, which will cause it to deal less damage to a single target (like a boss with no adds).
    1. Have it be a strong aoe.
    or
    2. Have the main target take 100% of the tooltip and additional targets take slightly less to not make a it a loss on the main target.

    The main gripe is losing damage on the main target if other, lesser adds are in the vicinity that you don't necessarily want to always be hitting. Of course this should have been a discussion that happened before it went live, but it seems we're past that point on a lot of class changes.
    Last edited by Sedvick; 12-11-2015 at 02:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedvick View Post
    2. Have the main target take 100% of the tooltip and additional targets take slightly less to not make a it a loss on the main target.

    The main gripe is losing damage on the main target if other, lesser adds are in the vicinity that you don't necessarily want to always be hitting.
    i like this idea a lot, there shouldn't really be a situation where we're losing dps on the target we want to focus on simply because there are other targets in range.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    The split between targets allows me to set the ability up to calculate its damage as single-target. If the ability deals AoE damage, it has to go through the AoE damage formula, which will cause it to deal less damage to a single target (like a boss with no adds).
    I actually like this concept. Overall on Pagura this week the spell seemed to have a better feel for how it works - my complaint was related to how weak it was hitting and for some reason my crits with it were way lower than usual - no gear changes, only spec change was changing Faith's Reward to Diversify. Could RNG really be 8k bad? or is something wonky?

    Kinda missed the PT off links for the crystal phases on Arak - but trying to coordinate linked guildies going to different crystals was likely only my ocd & I doubt my guildmates will miss me yelling at them to spread.

    The implications of the change for Fauxmire are intriguing, with no internet service at home guess I have time to ponder potential changes to how I approach that encounter this weekend.

    And thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    The split between targets allows me to set the ability up to calculate its damage as single-target. If the ability deals AoE damage, it has to go through the AoE damage formula, which will cause it to deal less damage to a single target (like a boss with no adds).
    Sounds like the root problem is having an ae ability which is such a substantial part of the dps rotation even on single-target fights. Is this intended to be a patch fix for this raiding tier prior to reworking the class?
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I wanted to come out and say the following pretty definitively: There is no goal to make DPS clerics that DPS do less damage than other callings.

  8.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #38
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    The following changes will be tested for Defiler starting on Monday:

    Defiler:
    Siphon Vitality - Increased damage by 10%
    Marrow Harvest - Increased damage by 20%
    Pain Transmission - Increased damage by 20%

    In addition, Vex's damage has been increased by 18%, which will also affect most dps-focused Defiler builds.
    Jeff "Red Hawk" Hamilton
    Senior Systems Designer - Rift

  9. #39
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    Yay vex buffs
    ~Xclusive
    ~Ominous

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    Yeah, that's... pretty huge, actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I wanted to come out and say the following pretty definitively: There is no goal to make DPS clerics that DPS do less damage than other callings.

  11. #41
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    Thank you red hawk. For a while I thought clerics are left in this sorry state until next expansion. It's just that so many roles of clerics are over shadowed by those of other callings. These three posts of yours actually brought smiles to me. There are several "what's wrong with clerics/bugs in cleric skills" posts from a few months ago which contain valid inputs from many players. Hope they will be useful for you while you are spending dev time on cleric class.

    For dps difiler build in particular, can you pls consider lower the mana cost? In both pve and pvp defiler probably is the first to run oom. Or maybe this is just the first step to convert defiler to a more dmg focused role?

    In any case I really welcome the dmg buff for all three callings. Please don't get discouraged if you get criticisms. We just care our class too much and want it to do equally well as others.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    The change to Pain Transmission was due to it being impossible to use on a number of bosses due to how AoEs work in our game. AoEs measure "center to center" of hitbox for hit computation, while ranged abilities measure "edge to edge" (those are tabletop war game terms but hopefully they're self-explanatory in this context). This will be super important on at least one boss this tier, which is why this change was made now.

    By no means was Defiler overperforming before in terms of DPS, so we'll be adjusting DPS back up (and mana costs down) very soon. I'm going to try to get that in next week's hotfix.
    So just because people could not stop to press their PT-button for a few seconds on Pagura you did change the ability?

    Just to make this clear we had 1-2 wipes on pagura because of PT and then we just didnīt use PT anymore the moment the golems are spawning untill everybody is stacked up in position and the problem was fixed.

  13. #43
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    Default Dear Red Hawk - Dot Bot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    The following changes will be tested for Defiler starting on Monday:

    Defiler:
    Siphon Vitality - Increased damage by 10%
    Marrow Harvest - Increased damage by 20%
    Pain Transmission - Increased damage by 20%

    In addition, Vex's damage has been increased by 18%, which will also affect most dps-focused Defiler builds.
    ------
    re: Marrow Harvest - Increased damage by 20%

    Dear Red Hawk,

    1) This ability has a clunky 6s duration while
    2) most have a 15 sec duration or

    3) a talent that will extend dot duration (i.e. , Shaman -5-8 pts. talent - Favored of the Valnir will extend the duration of Lightning).

    4) Any plans on addressing this?


    P.S. Will the testing be on the PTS or live, sorry I didn't see that part.

    Thank you for your time, and I appreciate your work,
    Last edited by Dizbo; 12-12-2015 at 12:36 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiegelspeakgel View Post
    So just because people could not stop to press their PT-button for a few seconds on Pagura you did change the ability?

    Just to make this clear we had 1-2 wipes on pagura because of PT and then we just didnīt use PT anymore the moment the golems are spawning untill everybody is stacked up in position and the problem was fixed.
    PT wasn't able to attack Enigma. I believe it wouldn't have been able to attack Arisen Arak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizbo View Post
    ------
    re: Marrow Harvest - Increased damage by 20%

    Dear Red Hawk,

    1) This ability has a clunky 6s duration while
    2) most have a 15 sec duration or

    3) a talent that will extend dot duration (i.e. , Shaman -5-8 pts. talent - Favored of the Valnir will extend the duration of Lightning).

    4) Any plans on addressing this?


    P.S. Will the testing be on the PTS or live, sorry I didn't see that part.

    Thank you for your time, and I appreciate your work,
    -Marrow Harvest having 6s duration is not clunky. It just means you can use 4 abilities between Marrow Harvest, rather than the usual 9.

    -I do believe the testing will be on testing shard.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by fufi View Post
    PT wasn't able to attack Enigma. I believe it wouldn't have been able to attack Arisen Arak.

    -Marrow Harvest having 6s duration is not clunky. It just means you can use 4 abilities between Marrow Harvest, rather than the usual 9.

    -I do believe the testing will be on testing shard.
    --
    ok. Can fit a Nysyrs/AI in 5 secs. Yeah, maybe it's me that's clunky.

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