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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: @Red Hawk: Pain Transmission changes a nerf to Defiler DPS ceiling, why?

  1. #16
    Telaran Belarios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokesi View Post
    Just give up and play one of the better games. Clerics will never get fixed.
    Fixed that for you.

  2. #17
    General of Telara
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    The new PT is very close to how Cab skills work. The difference is PT isn't scaling on the number of mobs hit. I think Trion can make that change pretty easy and have PT damage increase for each mob hit.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by forbiddenlake View Post
    The attitude in this very topic being an example.
    boohoo responsibility.

  4. #19
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    Your crazy Redhawk isn't gonna give any reply or excuse. He's posted half a dozen times in this forum since taking over and half of those contained no info or feedback.

    I didn't think anyone could be less communicative with clerics then kervik was. Way to prove me wrong Redhawk!

    I don't any reason for the change to PT. I think the blanket buffs were probably a side effect of something else, similar to what happened when Shamans got the same buff. Then for some reason decided PT is too strong so less break it.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilauria View Post
    Your crazy Redhawk isn't gonna give any reply or excuse. He's posted half a dozen times in this forum since taking over and half of those contained no info or feedback.
    Every time he posts someone criticises/ berates his decisions/ ideas. It's not much a surprise he doesn't like posting often.

  6. #21
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    Mamma taught me to always write a formal thank you note for gifts...

    Dear Trion -

    Thank you for the Fae Yule gifts! The new capes and backpacks have already been put to good use in preparation for next week's costume contest entries. The new minion has been sent to exhaustion, and the Sparkle Quest will keep me busy for the next several weeks.

    At the risk of seeming ungrateful however, I wonder if I could have a gift receipt for the Pain Transmission changes. I did try it on last night and found that it is just far too small (about 8k less on Pagura and Arak than my past 3 weeks.) While the insta-cast does feel nice, I'd prefer a larger size or simply go back to using Faith's Reward as an undergarment to relieve the chaffing from the previous version. I do realize that I used PT all last night, but I'd like to make the case that it is not damaged in any way and try to return or exchange the gift.

    With kind regards,
    Uviktig
    Last edited by Uviktig; 12-11-2015 at 12:02 PM.

  7. #22
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    Whilst I agree that inevitably any post from a developer which either makes or refuses to make a change will have some responses which are unfriendly (you are never going to please everyone) I'm sure even the most rabid of individuals feels slightly less likely to chew someone's leg off when they are given an explanation of WHY something should / shouldn't can or can't be done.

    That's not to say that anyone should expect Devs to post about every little change, but an update periodically as to what we can expect or not in the future, what might be being worked upon behind the scenes and a general agnowledgement that the playerbase might want to be involved with the ongoing development of a game that they care about enough to spend time discussing endlessly online in forums, MIGHT help to keep more people if not happy, at least interested.

    If you look at the cleric forum as a whole - where once a vibrant (though slightly trollish) community argued endlessly about which minor variant of a spec would gain us a few hundred more DPS, and frequent, small changes to our class made these arguments change regularly, now there is basically a wasteland where new posts are few and far between, and even then likely a new player who couldn't be bothered to trawl back through to find an answer already given.

    Most of us want a class dev back - that is to say someone who is looking out for our interests as clerics, instead of a class dev team who are responsible for balance over 5 classes and therefore don't have the passion for one class. That's not a dig at Redhawk - he's clearly NOT been appointed as a cleric class dev, but just one of a team of devs who also do class development - no wonder he chooses not to engage with us on the forums - because clearly there is no time for actual work on clerics (or our sister class the mage) so we get an unexplained Band-Aid minor global DPS boost and ongoing silence.

    /rant
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  8. #23
    Iri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phs View Post
    Every time he posts someone criticises/ berates his decisions/ ideas. It's not much a surprise he doesn't like posting often.
    So you're saying that he should avoid communicating completely on the justification that he's thin-skinned and can't deal with criticism or complaints? He works as a class dev, of course he's going to receive criticism every time he posts. But at least if he was posting regularly with some kind of meaningful information he'd reduce the backload. Right now he's created a situation where, as soon as he posts about any one thing, he's going to get hit with people angrily clamoring about a dozen other issues because people have been asking the same questions without receiving answers for months. And that's his own fault.
    Last edited by Iri; 12-10-2015 at 09:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I wanted to come out and say the following pretty definitively: There is no goal to make DPS clerics that DPS do less damage than other callings.

  9. #24
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    Looks like empowered affliction is now part of the dps rotation with the current change. Tbh i donīt like this change at all! Also i have heard rumors that defiler shall be reworked to a dps soul, all i can say to that is: "leave the slackfiler as it is!" Also give us the "good" PT back or at least reduce the mana cost on it and increase the outgoing damage.

  10. #25
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    I'm really getting quite tired of the idea that it's ok for devs to not communicate enough just because the feedback they get when they do is mostly negative and makes it less enjoyable for them to post. It's their job, it's what Trion and by extension the customer is paying them for. IMHO it's clear that the Cleric forums would be a lot more positive if we actually got more dev posts. But to say that the negative attitude resulting mostly from not enough dev posts is a valid excuse to not make anymore dev posts is to bless the vicious circle rather than break it. On the other side however, if the first reply to a constructive feedback post such as Starplatinum's is "forget it, dev won't reply", then that doesn't help either. Contribute something to the discussion instead.

    I'm actually quite happy with most of the Cleric changes, including the PT rework. It makes the spell more versatile and less of a pita to use correctly, and I think with a little bit of tuning this could make Defiler a lot better. Buff its damage when the beacon is active, for example, or if you need to split damage when cleaving, increase the amount of damage that gets split based on the number of targets hit, to make PT cleave stronger again. I was actually enjoying Defiler on cleave fights (esp. Zilas), why do we need to take that away?
    Athanil@Gelidra <Harshmallows>
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  11.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #26
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    The change to Pain Transmission was due to it being impossible to use on a number of bosses due to how AoEs work in our game. AoEs measure "center to center" of hitbox for hit computation, while ranged abilities measure "edge to edge" (those are tabletop war game terms but hopefully they're self-explanatory in this context). This will be super important on at least one boss this tier, which is why this change was made now.

    By no means was Defiler overperforming before in terms of DPS, so we'll be adjusting DPS back up (and mana costs down) very soon. I'm going to try to get that in next week's hotfix.

  12. #27
    Iri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    The change to Pain Transmission was due to it being impossible to use on a number of bosses due to how AoEs work in our game. AoEs measure "center to center" of hitbox for hit computation, while ranged abilities measure "edge to edge" (those are tabletop war game terms but hopefully they're self-explanatory in this context). This will be super important on at least one boss this tier, which is why this change was made now.

    By no means was Defiler overperforming before in terms of DPS, so we'll be adjusting DPS back up (and mana costs down) very soon. I'm going to try to get that in next week's hotfix.
    Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I wanted to come out and say the following pretty definitively: There is no goal to make DPS clerics that DPS do less damage than other callings.

  13. #28
    Plane Walker Learan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    The change to Pain Transmission was due to it being impossible to use on a number of bosses due to how AoEs work in our game. AoEs measure "center to center" of hitbox for hit computation, while ranged abilities measure "edge to edge" (those are tabletop war game terms but hopefully they're self-explanatory in this context). This will be super important on at least one boss this tier, which is why this change was made now.

    By no means was Defiler overperforming before in terms of DPS, so we'll be adjusting DPS back up (and mana costs down) very soon. I'm going to try to get that in next week's hotfix.
    How dare you!!! You must hate clerics...

  14. #29
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    The change to Pain Transmission was due to it being impossible to use on a number of bosses due to how AoEs work in our game. AoEs measure "center to center" of hitbox for hit computation, while ranged abilities measure "edge to edge" (those are tabletop war game terms but hopefully they're self-explanatory in this context). This will be super important on at least one boss this tier, which is why this change was made now.

    By no means was Defiler overperforming before in terms of DPS, so we'll be adjusting DPS back up (and mana costs down) very soon. I'm going to try to get that in next week's hotfix.
    thanks for the response.

    i think i speak for every cleric who wants to see more class development take place in the future when i say that we all feel pretty left out when changes such as this, or any changes at all, go to live without us knowing a single thing about them being on PTS. it takes away any opportunity we have to provide constructive feedback, and it takes away any opportunity we have to test things to see if they might be broken, undertuned, overtuned, to learn much about how they might effect our point distributions and rotations before they're on live, or anything in between.
    starplatinum@greybriar
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learan View Post
    How dare you!!! You must hate clerics...
    Really nMe? I don't understand why other classes feel a need to come to the cleric forums and lecture us on why we don't deserve, need, or require buffs or QoL adjustments. Please take your sarcasm and Panda back to your own main forums.

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