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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Shaman Changes!

  1. #91
    Sword of Telara Orochan's Avatar
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    Doubt anyone will see this but here goes.

    My proposed shaman changes ( keep in mind I do not raid, I mostly pvp but I think these changes work for both pve and pvp equally )

    Snowbank :

    - Make OGCD pull + snare, like warlord.

    Glacial Strike :

    - Remove 30% hp requirement, this way it can be used throughout the whole fight.
    - Reduce damage by 25% ( number can vary )
    - Add effect that increases damage by 25% when opponent is under 30% HP ( again number can vary )
    - Increase range to 20m

    Windwalk :

    - Change to a break free + 75% damage reduction for 4 seconds ( I think the warlock one is 4 secs as well no? ) This change gives shaman it's much needed 2nd breakfree while also providing a solid way to engage in pvp.

    - remove dodge/movement speed buff

    Numbing Cold :


    - Change to a flat out 4 second stun
    - Adjust CD accordingly

    Jolt :

    - Increase range to 20m

    Ekkehard's grasp :


    - I don't understand why this doesnt proc Glory of the chosen/Venegeance of the winter storm, nor does it proc frostbite w/o mastery. These should all be default procs for ekkehard's, so that would be my change. I honestly think ekkehard's in it's current form is 100% useless because when factoring in VotWS/Glory Lightning hammer does the same exact damage as Ekkehard's, + bonus heal. I can't be alone in thinking this? Am I missing something?

    Rush of Strength :

    - Change CD to 1min

    - resets all -damaging- ability CD's only upon use. This way we don't have to push our burst back to wait on CD's like jolt, Glacial strike, MB, etc.

    Deep Freeze :

    - separate stun and damage components

    - Leave it as a 3sec stun

    - have it add a 10 sec buff stating next 3 ( or 4? ) attacks do 50% more damage. I think this equates to the current version damage wise, but this one allows much more flexibility IMO. I know this change nerfs the aoe aspect of deep freeze, but do shamans really use it for aoe burst that much?

    Venegance of the Primal North :

    - This is another ability I think is 100% useless since it no longer interacts with frozen wrath.

    - Change it to a straight multi-hit AOE with a medium timed CD maybe?

    Well those are my ideas, I think for the most part they are balanced, but as always numbers can be tweaked accordingly. I think these changes help both in pvp and pve to make shaman more forgiving on disconnects, and it's burst more reliant and flexible.

    Edit : changed rage of the north to rush of strength since IMO that ability rework fits more in line than simply adding the effect to rage of the north.
    Last edited by Orochan; 11-25-2015 at 04:48 PM.

  2. #92
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    So i came to the conclusion: Trion says shaman is fine, Trion is always right.
    You cant see any shaman in top 10 on any boss at mom (except for evny but thats the split raid glitch). Usualy a hefty 10% behind if not more, some callings have more than one soul outperforming the cleric top dps soul.

    So conclusion: You are all bad and should be ashamed, baddies! Go practice more, all of you!
    The 3 second cd block is fine, servers never even lag, the full second lagspikes are just trions bullet time feature, its outrageous to ask to make deepfreeze "next 3 attacks".

  3. #93
    Plane Walker InflatablePanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetmes View Post
    So i came to the conclusion: Trion says shaman is fine, Trion is always right.
    You cant see any shaman in top 10 on any boss at mom (except for evny but thats the split raid glitch). Usualy a hefty 10% behind if not more, some callings have more than one soul outperforming the cleric top dps soul.

    So conclusion: You are all bad and should be ashamed, baddies! Go practice more, all of you!
    The 3 second cd block is fine, servers never even lag, the full second lagspikes are just trions bullet time feature, its outrageous to ask to make deepfreeze "next 3 attacks".
    Clerics are capable of being within 2-3% of everyone :3

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by InflatablePanda View Post
    Clerics are capable of being within 2-3% of everyone :3
    lol Harbinger
    Koz

  5. #95
    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InflatablePanda View Post
    Clerics are capable of being within 2-3% of everyone :3
    Nice joke mate.

  6. #96
    Rift Chaser Learan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetmes View Post
    So i came to the conclusion: Trion says shaman is fine, Trion is always right.
    You cant see any shaman in top 10 on any boss at mom (except for evny but thats the split raid glitch). Usualy a hefty 10% behind if not more, some callings have more than one soul outperforming the cleric top dps soul.

    So conclusion: You are all bad and should be ashamed, baddies! Go practice more, all of you!
    The 3 second cd block is fine, servers never even lag, the full second lagspikes are just trions bullet time feature, its outrageous to ask to make deepfreeze "next 3 attacks".
    10% is quite an exaggeration. Certain souls like harb and some primalist souls have more cleave in the ST rotation. Im not sure what fights you are referring to but ST fights they are not anywhere close to 10% behind.
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learan View Post
    10% is quite an exaggeration. Certain souls like harb and some primalist souls have more cleave in the ST rotation. Im not sure what fights you are referring to but ST fights they are not anywhere close to 10% behind.
    I was obviously referring to Fauxmire, as the only benchmark worthy boss from the first 5. Pure st, no gimmicks. All other callings pull 120+ except for poor herpbringers who cant padmark anything so they are only 116+ (i am sure they are going to cry ). For those that arent adepts of the high and complex math: 121k is exactly 10% more than 110k.

    And all the clerics are stuck at 110k mark, told you all of them are baddies.

    As a beginner shaman i wanted to share my new invention of maximum lazyness: Its called the "passive blow" macro: same as your phys macro, but without massive blow, for the times when the server launches the bullet time feature and you gotta delay mb to avoid eventual desync with raidcds.

  8. #98
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learan View Post
    10% is quite an exaggeration. Certain souls like harb and some primalist souls have more cleave in the ST rotation. Im not sure what fights you are referring to but ST fights they are not anywhere close to 10% behind.
    "We can't count 90% of the real in game T1, T2, T3 boss fights as a standard for balance because that is unfair and not part of the game at all. "
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 11-26-2015 at 08:53 PM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetmes View Post
    I was obviously referring to Fauxmire, as the only benchmark worthy boss from the first 5. Pure st, no gimmicks. All other callings pull 120+ except for poor herpbringers who cant padmark anything so they are only 116+ (i am sure they are going to cry ). For those that arent adepts of the high and complex math: 121k is exactly 10% more than 110k.

    And all the clerics are stuck at 110k mark, told you all of them are baddies.

    As a beginner shaman i wanted to share my new invention of maximum lazyness: Its called the "passive blow" macro: same as your phys macro, but without massive blow, for the times when the server launches the bullet time feature and you gotta delay mb to avoid eventual desync with raidcds.
    Doesnt that fight has disconnects? It could just mean shamans are being double rekt by it. Shaman is known for having bad dc isnt it?

    Sure shamans are a bit low but other classes melee has better dc? I mean due to the heavy movement harbs are not doing super hot coz their hailstorm cheese. Dervish somehow as a melee soul most of their stuff are ranged. Paragon being top is due to grasping being one of the most powerful dc tools ingame while not confined by gtaoe... Rogues melee has passive midranged attacks.

    If you balance around faux then harbs sure looks weak... You really think harbs need more buffs?

    But anyways shaman should get a buff... I agree... or maybe make druid useful in raid...

  10. #100
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    Red Hawk, Cleric single target dps (aka shaman) is up to 10% behind other classes and is currently a clear last place among callings. Is this something that will be addressed?

    This has been shown by the Fauxmire encounter. And, just so people are aware, 100% melee up time is completely achievable on this fight. The only time a break in your rotation should occur is mechanics (not disconnect) based.
    Koz

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sencas View Post
    This has been shown by the Fauxmire encounter. And, just so people are aware, 100% melee up time is completely achievable on this fight. The only time a break in your rotation should occur is mechanics (not disconnect) based.
    which affects shamans more than others...

    /sigh

    Need proof? look thru all those faux parses, other than paragon and harbinger (coz grasping the phantom blades) every other classes melee used some ranged fillers... which, should never happen in a "100% melee" encounters.

    Sure you can achieve 100% melee uptime rarely, or you are the only one standing near boss when mechanics comes... or your melee just dont give a **** about overlaying multiple reds together and rolling the dice and hope not getting one shotted.

    That being said I agree shamans are a bit low and should be buffed (as I mentioned before) but...
    In a real full stand still fights and your shaman is consistently 10% below every other classes... it's probably not because of shaman... its something else.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 11-30-2015 at 03:54 AM.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    which affects shamans more than others...

    /sigh

    Need proof? look thru all those faux parses, other than paragon and harbinger (coz grasping the phantom blades) every other classes melee used some ranged fillers... which, should never happen in a "100% melee" encounters.

    Sure you can achieve 100% melee uptime rarely, or you are the only one standing near boss when mechanics comes... or your melee just dont give a **** about overlaying multiple reds together and rolling the dice and hope not getting one shotted.

    That being said I agree shamans are a bit low and should be buffed (as I mentioned before) but...
    In a real full stand still fights and your shaman is consistently 10% below every other classes... it's probably not because of shaman... its something else.
    Since you seem to be focused on Night phase, I will tell you is that all of the fight mechanics are very forgiving this phase. As a melee dps, if you are not able to navigate this phase without full melee uptime... you are doing your raid a disservice. Speaking from experience, Fauxmire is not an encounter where lack of “grasping the phantom blades” should significantly impact your dps as a shaman.

    As for the ‘range fillers’ you see go back and look at my earlier comment, then watch a guide. There are times where you need to use a range ability if you want to safely continue to dps. And no, this is not a disconnect.



    But enough of that. Here's to hoping Clerics can get a little dev love before the end of NT.
    Last edited by Sencas; 11-30-2015 at 07:24 AM.
    Koz

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sencas View Post

    As for the ‘range fillers’ you see go back and look at my earlier comment, then watch a guide. There are times where you need to use a range ability if you want to safely continue to dps. And no, this is not a disconnect.



    But enough of that. Here's to hoping Clerics can get a little dev love before the end of NT.
    except of many ranged filler still triggered melee reflect... but you probably won't know that... oh well... you believe shaman is 10% behind after all. I guess it all makes sense.

  14. #104
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    i don't think shaman is 10% behind, but it is behind. one of hardest parts about playing shaman right now is the effort that has to be put into the soul. the cooldown block, lining it up perfectly with lava field every single time while having every available ability off or coming off cd, executing it perfectly every time throughout an entire fight, but still coming up 6-7% behind a rogue despite knowing that you executed everything almost as best you could.

    that 6-7%, or 5%, or whatever it is at the end of a fight where you know you played the soul to 99% of it's potential--there's no way to make up for that by playing better. it just isn't happening. that's the hardest part.

    something needs to change.
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  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecru View Post
    i don't think shaman is 10% behind, but it is behind. one of hardest parts about playing shaman right now is the effort that has to be put into the soul. the cooldown block, lining it up perfectly with lava field every single time while having every available ability off or coming off cd, executing it perfectly every time throughout an entire fight, but still coming up 6-7% behind a rogue despite knowing that you executed everything almost as best you could.

    that 6-7%, or 5%, or whatever it is at the end of a fight where you know you played the soul to 99% of it's potential--there's no way to make up for that by playing better. it just isn't happening. that's the hardest part.

    something needs to change.
    I think other classes might have to do w/e you say shamans has to do, like line up raid cds... Sure maybe you think Shaman is the only spec that takes real skill that's fine, but that still doesn't mean the other specs can just derp or faceroll their way thru raid cds and expect to beat other good players.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 11-30-2015 at 02:35 PM.

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