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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Shaman Changes!

  1. #46
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    Game balance in MMOs is a neverending battle to solve a multi-hundred variable equation, but we will keep soldiering on in our efforts to keep all callings close to equal in their ability to contribute to raids as the role the player wants to play.
    in that case, in the meantime can we at least get a second or third break free like pretty much every other soul in rift? shaman is pretty much the only dps soul left in rift that is all damage with no utility, no cc, and no extra break free. if not, i'd like to hear the reasoning behind this disparity. more and more cc is continually added into the game (dervish int/debilitate, vulcanist 8s root is just a few) and those with no counters are suffering because of it.
    Last edited by ecru; 10-06-2015 at 01:09 PM.
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  2. #47
    Plane Walker Axarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    Hi guys,

    The buff you're all discussing is really a bugfix. Most Shaman attacks had base damage (not scaling values) that skewed a little low for our damage formula. When I generated Shaman mana changes, the damage values also changed as the script corrected this issue. This is why what you're seeing is a baseline value buff to attacks, and not a gameplay-targeted change to talents or root abilities. Because this was a base value (and not a scaling) buff, it looks like less the better-geared your test character is.
    Should probably check if any other specs had this issue (across all classes)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    in the short term I'm going to be increasing the value on Diversify up to 3% per stack, which is also small, but should help both specs keep on par.
    Could we get the QoL of having them apply themselves while out of combat? Having to spam CoO pre-pull is giving me a headache

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    Also in 3.4, Soul Stream gains a Spellpower scaling ratio as part of a fix to all the Stream/Variation masteries to give them parity, which will further help Inquisitor stay afloat.
    Is the imbalance between Rogue/Warrior vs Mage/Cleric going to be adressed though? AoE vs ST does not seem very fair atm.

  3. #48
    Prophet of Telara
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    That is what happened in T1 and T2. They looked somewhat relative and competitive but if you look at the player average instead of the AI average throughout content you will see that actually the difference in player performance ends up being underwhelming. IMO, you should adjust according to the player average in the current raid content.

    PvP Shaman is lacking in utility and mobility. They don't have the mobile or utility of nb/sin/harb/para/rb. I personally would drop the healing debuff for a fear bomb. Just so it can be a little bit better than the 1.1 champ and add a second break.
    Last edited by Planetx; 10-06-2015 at 03:46 PM.

  4.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axarion View Post
    Is the imbalance between Rogue/Warrior vs Mage/Cleric going to be adressed though? AoE vs ST does not seem very fair atm.
    Well, right now on Live, Mage/Cleric cannot crit when healing with Soul/Phantom Stream and have no spellpower scaling, while Warrior/Rogue can crit while healing with Planar/Power Variation and have attack power scaling. As of tomorrow, all four abilities have scaling and none of them can crit while healing.

    As for AoE vs. ST, we could review that but I fear changing the Mage/Cleric ones to be AoE would lower their damage enough that they're no longer useful. The mechanical distinction isn't inherently problematic as long as both are useful to their callings in different situations (for instance, Soul Stream's interaction with Approbation, for instance, would go away if Soul Stream was AoE)
    Last edited by Red Hawk; 10-07-2015 at 07:32 AM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    Well, right now on Live, Mage/Cleric cannot crit when healing and have no spellpower scaling, while Warrior/Rogue can crit while healing and have attack power scaling. As of tomorrow, all four abilities have scaling and none of them can crit while healing.

    As for AoE vs. ST, we could review that but I fear changing the Mage/Cleric ones to be AoE would lower their damage enough that they're no longer useful. The mechanical distinction isn't inherently problematic as long as both are useful to their callings in different situations (for instance, Soul Stream's interaction with Approbation, for instance, would go away if Soul Stream was AoE)
    The only interaction Phantom Stream has with mages is Self-heal. That's it. Mages don't use it for DPS at all because its value is too low compared to AM and EB. Furthermore, SCs basically have no 65 talent as none of them are great for AE. The best case usage is AM for AE, which is *** since only 5 targets every 30s for minimal damage, or EB/AM for ST.
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  6. #51
    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    What about addressing the massive problem of passive cleave and 100% damaged at ranged that a lot of core melee specs have in this game.

    I'm not asking for homogenisation, but for all classes to have weaknesses. At the moment harb is a massively out preforming everything but reaver (being replaced with RB, and NB (with broken zerker - which is being fixed)).

    The problem at its core is that clerics have limited options with which to dps, and hybrids have effectively been culled from this game (for the worse), we are pigeon-holed into a single immobile ranged spec, or again a single melee spec which has access to very few tools compared to other classes.

    I understand you're busy with primalist at the moment, but it really is clerics time to get some love. We've been waiting literally YEARS to be on par with the other classes in terms of dps. Most of our classes are useless/never used.

    I look forward to when you have more time from next week onwards to put into this endeavour and I will be more than happy to discuss all the things we should change, not a huge fan of typing it all out though.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axarion View Post
    Is the imbalance between Rogue/Warrior vs Mage/Cleric going to be adressed though? AoE vs ST does not seem very fair atm.
    planar variation being aoe for rogues does a lot less damage on a single target than soul stream does if you're playing something like inquisitor. with sp scaling, it's going to do even more damage, and splitting that into an aoe would be extremely overpowered even with the damage it does right now. the only way for this to be balanced is if there was some kind of toggle or secondary ability that reduced damage but increased the amount of targets hit, otherwise we'd be seeing a noticeable single target dps decrease for inquisitor.
    Last edited by ecru; 10-06-2015 at 03:28 PM.
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  8. #53
    Rift Disciple Ookamikawaii's Avatar
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    Default Not shammy related but responding to Redhawk's information posted

    Nvm realized my error. so deleted entry.
    Last edited by Ookamikawaii; 10-07-2015 at 01:51 AM.

  9. #54
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    So one thing I did not understand was that on PTS the 1.66% increased damage on attack skills was said to be a bug fix by red hawk.

    But in the 3.4 patch note, it is written that all abilities have been buffed by 7.5%. Is it the same thing, or is this 7.5% increased another buff to shaman that we were not told about?

  10. #55
    Plane Touched Sacria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fufi View Post
    I think you mistake me for a non-cleric.

    It seems I didn't bother uploading screenshots, but I did 3 parses yesterday, first at 98k, 2nd and 3rd at 99k. I won't bother wasting another hour producing the same results I've claimed and that are the same as ecru's.
    .
    Curious on what you get if you use the old shaman spec with eruption of life and swift judgement in stead of faith's freedom and sanction heresy?

    Assuming you tested it recently. And if the new changes changed anything in that regard.
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  11. #56
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azshaar View Post
    So one thing I did not understand was that on PTS the 1.66% increased damage on attack skills was said to be a bug fix by red hawk.

    But in the 3.4 patch note, it is written that all abilities have been buffed by 7.5%. Is it the same thing, or is this 7.5% increased another buff to shaman that we were not told about?
    same change, base damage just doesn't scale with gear, so it's still roughly ~1.6% increase overall.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacria View Post
    Curious on what you get if you use the old shaman spec with eruption of life and swift judgement in stead of faith's freedom and sanction heresy?

    Assuming you tested it recently. And if the new changes changed anything in that regard.
    Its still behind.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    in the short term I'm going to be increasing the value on Diversify up to 3% per stack, which is also small, but should help both specs keep on par.
    I think our definitions of "short term" are different.

  14. #59
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    ageless ice and numbing cold are totally useless for pve or pvp

  15. #60
    Telaran Alchameth's Avatar
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    Actually, shaman could use some EoL love, as back in the day. And, please, tidy up brutalize!

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